Not By Works
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JESUSCONVERTYOUHERETICS SAID HE DISAGREED WITH ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAID ?
I will Welcome you, because you are a newcomer. Most of us here are OSAS.
But I am willing to bet you do not even know what the REAL MEANING of that TERM MEANS.
We believe He ALONE SAVED US, however OBEDIENCE is PART TO LOVE, the LOVE THAT THE FATHER told the Holy Spirit to Pour into our hearts the moment HE CAME INTO OUR HEARTS (human spirit), ROM. 5:5. SO WE TOO believe in OBEDIENCE, but it is NOT PART OF SALVATION. The Chief Spiritual GIFT is LOVE, and it spawns out of GOD's LOVE in our HEARTS.
How LONG ago do you think GOD SAVED US ? ? ?
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
You have made one of the biggest mistakes that you can make in Interpretation, YOU have assumed that SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the SAME THING. SALVATION is a FREE GIFT OF GOD. SANCTIFICATION is HOW we EXPRESS OUR LOVE FOR HIM, after HE saved us. Yes, that is a verse that solidly supports PREDESTINATION.
Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
I will Welcome you, because you are a newcomer. Most of us here are OSAS.
But I am willing to bet you do not even know what the REAL MEANING of that TERM MEANS.
We believe He ALONE SAVED US, however OBEDIENCE is PART TO LOVE, the LOVE THAT THE FATHER told the Holy Spirit to Pour into our hearts the moment HE CAME INTO OUR HEARTS (human spirit), ROM. 5:5. SO WE TOO believe in OBEDIENCE, but it is NOT PART OF SALVATION. The Chief Spiritual GIFT is LOVE, and it spawns out of GOD's LOVE in our HEARTS.
How LONG ago do you think GOD SAVED US ? ? ?
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
You have made one of the biggest mistakes that you can make in Interpretation, YOU have assumed that SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the SAME THING. SALVATION is a FREE GIFT OF GOD. SANCTIFICATION is HOW we EXPRESS OUR LOVE FOR HIM, after HE saved us. Yes, that is a verse that solidly supports PREDESTINATION.
Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
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This absolutely does not make any sense to me. Doesn't the Bible say when God forgives our sins he casts them as far as the East is from the West never to be remembered against us anymore????
If your future sins are already pardoned before you commit them, how could you possibly ask God to forgive something he don't even remember?
Most on here talk about Sin like it's something you cannot avoid and something that we all do all the time but the Bible says if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.......... will not
Every man is tempted and drawn away of his own lust........ But does he not also promise a way of Escape with every temptation.
Again sin a choice.
That is what's wrong with our society today everybody wants to blame something or somebody for where they are. but each and every one of us is a product of our own choices
If your future sins are already pardoned before you commit them, how could you possibly ask God to forgive something he don't even remember?
Most on here talk about Sin like it's something you cannot avoid and something that we all do all the time but the Bible says if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.......... will not
Every man is tempted and drawn away of his own lust........ But does he not also promise a way of Escape with every temptation.
Again sin a choice.
That is what's wrong with our society today everybody wants to blame something or somebody for where they are. but each and every one of us is a product of our own choices
This post reeks of ignorance.........Did God forsake them? NO......they were not allowed to enter a position of REST in this life and yet...
a. God led them by day and by night -->pillar of fire and smoke
b. God gave them a system of worship and sacrifice which pointed to Christ
c. God fed them and provided water
d. God healed them BY FAITH when they looked to the brazen serpent
e. God gave them laws and good instruction which ALSO pointed to CHRIST
f. GOD's presence was never taken fro them during this time
Most workers for and salvation losers fail to bring up and or deny the truth of the facts above....and the BIGGIE....UNDER THE LAW ONE SIN = GUILT.............the reason GOD made the wander 40 years and the same reason MOSES was not allowed to ENTER.....1 SIN....
BY your reasoning MOSES was LOST as well.....
a. God led them by day and by night -->pillar of fire and smoke
b. God gave them a system of worship and sacrifice which pointed to Christ
c. God fed them and provided water
d. God healed them BY FAITH when they looked to the brazen serpent
e. God gave them laws and good instruction which ALSO pointed to CHRIST
f. GOD's presence was never taken fro them during this time
Most workers for and salvation losers fail to bring up and or deny the truth of the facts above....and the BIGGIE....UNDER THE LAW ONE SIN = GUILT.............the reason GOD made the wander 40 years and the same reason MOSES was not allowed to ENTER.....1 SIN....
BY your reasoning MOSES was LOST as well.....
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I think these guys are playing games....he will LIKE one truthful post I make and then turn around and red x the next truthful post I make........the last few days ALL of the NEW ones that open accounts like at 1 pm with NO posts, no replies nor anything will LIKE a few truthful posts and red x a few truthful posts.......who knows?
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Not sure what your "most" means?? I am not a "once saved always saved" but I do firmly believe that all who believe in Jesus Christ are given the gift of eternal life. Those who do not believe are damned (unless they repent and believe in the atoning work of Jesus Christ).
Calvin, Arminian, and Paul are not the way. Jesus is the way.
Calvin, Arminian, and Paul are not the way. Jesus is the way.
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One would be that only the Epistles of Paul apply to the church. The letters of Peter, James and John are "to the jews" in the future tribulation period somehow, yet had 1st century application.
Which of course is false in every way possible, and a NEW and FOREIGN doctrine brought in to Christianity only recently, unheard of in church history. This obviously because we know that genealogies dont matter in the new covenant, and jew or gentile is irrelevant. Therefore a letter to the jewish christians -> applies to all christians. Just like a letter to the galatians applies to all christians, NOT just the galatians.
Another one would be different gospels, he taught that we have paul's gospel now, but in the future (and past) it was a different one, WHICH AGAIN would put the angel in revelation under a curse for preaching the everlasting gospel. Since Paul says anyone who preaches a different one is accursed.
Its sad that I even had to point this out, but this is 2019, goes with the territory I guess.
Which of course is false in every way possible, and a NEW and FOREIGN doctrine brought in to Christianity only recently, unheard of in church history. This obviously because we know that genealogies dont matter in the new covenant, and jew or gentile is irrelevant. Therefore a letter to the jewish christians -> applies to all christians. Just like a letter to the galatians applies to all christians, NOT just the galatians.
Another one would be different gospels, he taught that we have paul's gospel now, but in the future (and past) it was a different one, WHICH AGAIN would put the angel in revelation under a curse for preaching the everlasting gospel. Since Paul says anyone who preaches a different one is accursed.
Its sad that I even had to point this out, but this is 2019, goes with the territory I guess.
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Great post bro I agree.
How does silas, GodsGrace101 and Goodnewsman deal with 2 Timothy 1:9 would be interesting to hear.
We cant earn our salvation! HOW can it be a PRIZE to work for, when the Bible says salvation is a FREE GIFT. NOT OF WORKS. NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE
How many different ways does it have to be said?
How does silas, GodsGrace101 and Goodnewsman deal with 2 Timothy 1:9 would be interesting to hear.
We cant earn our salvation! HOW can it be a PRIZE to work for, when the Bible says salvation is a FREE GIFT. NOT OF WORKS. NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE
How many different ways does it have to be said?
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They will try.....the plenteous in number "many" will come before him in that day saying, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works in your name, have we not.........., have we not............." <----they get cast.
They peddle the same thing we see peddled in this site...
LORD, LORD <----claim of faith
Have we not done <-----elements of works
FAITH plus WORKS for or to KEEP........false gospel of a different kind according to Paul and Galatians.....
They peddle the same thing we see peddled in this site...
LORD, LORD <----claim of faith
Have we not done <-----elements of works
FAITH plus WORKS for or to KEEP........false gospel of a different kind according to Paul and Galatians.....
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Amen sis. This is very edifying.
And if I may add, Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.
...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16)
That is why Paul said;
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?
...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18
...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24
They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."
...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38
I would therefore say and believe that;
...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26
And regarding eternal security, I still can't find it in the bible but eternal salvation IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.
...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25
And if I may add, Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.
...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16)
That is why Paul said;
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29
So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?
...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18
...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24
They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."
...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38
I would therefore say and believe that;
...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26
And regarding eternal security, I still can't find it in the bible but eternal salvation IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.
...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25
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By quoting a Bible verse I have no honesty or integrity????
To be honest with you, I'm about sick and tired of you attacking my integrity. You and BUDMAN both constantly speak down to me and bring up my congregation and what a sorry pastor I must be, for having the audacity to disagree with you. The next time you guys attack my integrity and especially the church I pastor, I will tell the Father on you
I'm a nice guy, not mean spirited at all... I mean you and BUDMAN both have your pictures on this thumbnail for all to see giving me plenty of material to say mean things about you but I don't
To be honest with you, I'm about sick and tired of you attacking my integrity. You and BUDMAN both constantly speak down to me and bring up my congregation and what a sorry pastor I must be, for having the audacity to disagree with you. The next time you guys attack my integrity and especially the church I pastor, I will tell the Father on you
I'm a nice guy, not mean spirited at all... I mean you and BUDMAN both have your pictures on this thumbnail for all to see giving me plenty of material to say mean things about you but I don't
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I see that some still cannot understand that it is the SPIRIT that has been born again from above by incorruptible seed eternally by the irrevocable GIFT of faith and LIFE and the verses that speak to the future are speaking of the FINISHED product when we GET A NEW body as described in 1st Corinthians 15.....................
WAS saved
AM saved
WILL CONTINUE to be saved
the gift is IRREVOCABLE.....all that teach erroneously teach and believe that it is REVOCABLE.....this is false and flat denies the word!
WAS saved
AM saved
WILL CONTINUE to be saved
the gift is IRREVOCABLE.....all that teach erroneously teach and believe that it is REVOCABLE.....this is false and flat denies the word!
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NO.....your last mouthy remark about OSAS....get your facts straight.....it reeks of no integrity and or honesty....shall I quote it....??
Goodnewsman said:
I guess though if you are a brother hating murdering "Christian" you still have eternal life. According to the OSAS
Goodnewsman said:
I guess though if you are a brother hating murdering "Christian" you still have eternal life. According to the OSAS
Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
