Name It and Claim It

[Nehemiah6]

Are you saying all these people are lying when giving their account of the word of God working for them?

They are misleading people, which may be the equivalent of lying. Here is what they teach:

The Power of Your Words Co-authored by E.W. Kenyon and Don Gossett

You can have everything that God says you can have. If you lack anything or fail to accomplish what you say you will do, then this book will show you how to live in the positive, strengthen your faith, and possess what you confess. The power of your words can lead you to all that God has for you. Includes the following chapters: Right and Wrong Confessions, What I Confess I Possess, A Negative Confession, Confession Precedes Possession, Our Confession, I Possess What I Confess, The Place Confession Holds, Faith's Confession, Walking with God by Agreeing with God, Don't Say "I Can't" When God Says "You Can," Wrong Confession, Some Facts about Affirmations, By His Stripes I Am Healed, The Ministry of Dr. E.W. Kenyon, My Dad - Dr. E. W. Kenyon, and more!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I noticed you only could only find examples in scripture for a lack of healing, but failed to write the promises that say contrary.
One thing you and many others are saying in a round about way is, that God is a respecter of persons. That he favors a chosen few by healing them, and not the many.
Does that line up with scripture?
So what do you tell those who both named and claimed their healing and got it, like me?
And when your wife got her healing at the alter, did they just ask or did someone do what Peter did with the man at the gate Beautiful, by naming and claiming the persons healing?
Did anyone command her healing in the name of Jesus, or did they say, "if it be your will Father, would you heal so and so's knees please?"
Those who don't believe the scriptures concerning naming and claiming things is because they always always always have their eyes on the natural, instead of the promises of God, which is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And if anyone alters and perverts scripture, it's the doubter.
The fact that you had only a few that failed to get their healing in the early church's history, only demonstrates how bad it has gotten over the centuries. Now we have million who fail to receive, in part because of their willful ignorance, by rejecting the truth.
Tell me if you can, which scripture below is true?

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, [and if it be the will of God, then] they shall be forgiven him.

Many years ago we had a young man come to our church full of faith, believing he could go out and God would
heal the masses.

This lasted a few days.

How many people can think pain has been relieved by suggestion? Almost the whole population.
It is a common experience. But real healing is very rare.

It has also been suggested a large number of people have conditions which are created in their minds and not
real. Not surprisingly such people can be truly healed, because their condition is not physical.

I heard of a story of a beggar who found if he claimed he had a medical condition, got it prayed for, seemingly came
to faith, then asked for money, the believers tended to give it to him. One has to get a bit more suspicious as regards
testimonies and reality than just taking things at face value when money is involved.

Now the naive will hear what they want to hear. But the people of God want the truth.
Jesus is the only person who healed the masses. So why should we expect anything else.

 

[AllenW]

I noticed you only could only find examples in scripture for a lack of healing, but failed to write the promises that say contrary.
One thing you and many others are saying in a round about way is, that God is a respecter of persons. That he favors a chosen few by healing them, and not the many.
Does that line up with scripture?
So what do you tell those who both named and claimed their healing and got it, like me?
And when your wife got her healing at the alter, did they just ask or did someone do what Peter did with the man at the gate Beautiful, by naming and claiming the persons healing?
Did anyone command her healing in the name of Jesus, or did they say, "if it be your will Father, would you heal so and so's knees please?"
Those who don't believe the scriptures concerning naming and claiming things is because they always always always have their eyes on the natural, instead of the promises of God, which is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And if anyone alters and perverts scripture, it's the doubter.
The fact that you had only a few that failed to get their healing in the early church's history, only demonstrates how bad it has gotten over the centuries. Now we have million who fail to receive, in part because of their willful ignorance, by rejecting the truth.
Tell me if you can, which scripture below is true?

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, [and if it be the will of God, then] they shall be forgiven him.

You are very negative, not me.
I'm realistic.
If I had found more passages in the Bible than you did, would that make me right?
There are not contradictions in the Bible.
If you can't make these passages I listed line up with your passages, then you don't know it all.

 

[know1]

FollowHisSteps, Gods love came to deliver us from sin and death not illness and suffering.
The whole point of love is it lives despite the cost and problems along the way.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Is sicknesses and diseases of God or of the devil?

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

God sent Jesus to deliver us from both sin and the curse of the law of sin and death. One of which is sicknesses and diseases.


There is a whole industry dedicated to making people believe they should trust God to heal
them and not take medicine which will cure or keep them healthy. These people die, literally
as a result.
I agree with you concerning the sick taking their medicines, if that is what is keeping them alive.
People think and are taught that if they just act on the word, they God will heal them.
That is not how it works.
Without faith for that healing, you can act all you want, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
Just because the teachers give the doctrine a bad name, doesn't mean it's a doctrine of devils, nor does it make if a lie.

And this is the point. We need to be wise to what solves problems and issues and bring all
to the Lord for His blessing.
This sounds like a cop-out and a preparation for failure.
I'd like to know how anyone could even begin to have faith when you're already prepping them to die.
Since you don't believe God's going to do anything to begin with, the only thing you are doing is handing the person a binky to mollify them into accepting the inevitable.

My church has prayed for many who are sick, who have died within a short period.
Your answer is they did not have enough faith. The problem is across the whole church a similar
pattern emerges. Most simply die. So either these are not faithful believers or the idea that God
desires to heal all is false.
Just to set the record straight, Jesus did not have a 100% success rate in healing people. Many failed to receive, because THEY failed to believe.
The word of God says, that one reason why Jesus suffered, was for their healing. If it wasn't God's will, He wouldn't have covered that as part of Jesus' work on the cross.
If your church teaches what you do, then it is no wonder why many, if not most, fail to receive their healing, as faith comes by hearing the word of God, that God WILL heal them, NOT the reverse or that He won't, or you never know what God's going to do, or the will of God be done.
No faith, none.
Yes, part of the problem is indeed a lack of faith, and that is because many people, like yourself, have no clue as to what it is or how it works.
Another major big time problem is knowing WHY the person fell ill, and HOW to get rid of it. That being, the SIN of the person or their parents.
Because so many teaching, 'your sins are automatically forgiven, past, present, and future', people think they don't have to repent of anything, when the truth is in MOST cases, the illness came on them as a DIRECT RESULT OF A SIN THEY COMMITTED AND HAVE NOT BEEN FORGIVEN OF.
Repent and confess your sins FIRST, then command the spirit that cause the illness to go, in the name of Jesus. After that, do what the word of God says, then ask God to heal so and so, according to His word, and if nothing happens at that moment, continue to praise Him, KNOWING IT IS DONE. And sooner or later, it will take place.
In the mean time, the person should continue taking the meds.

The biggest failure people have is in seeing we now live in a world where most will live till they
reach 70 years old. Never before in history has this happened.
Yet with such a blessing, this is not good enough. And this is the problem. We want eternity and
no problems or suffering here now on earth, and to not believe this is to be an unbeliever and evil.
Wow, the big sin. To live a happy, HEALTHY, prosperous, victorious, and long life.
I thought we were talking about the God of heaven, not the god of earth and hell.
Again, you try to make what is godly and good, to be evil and bad.
My guess is, this is what is taught in your church, and you wonder why God doesn't heal many, if any, in the congregation.

Spoilt children always want more of the things they already have too much of.
Seriously?!
Too much health?
Living too long?
Who are you advocating and propagating for, God or the devil?
What happened to the good new or the gospel of Jesus Christ?
You teach that it's better to no even bother trying to believe in healing, because they might be disappointed and not get what they want or ask for, than to at the very least, give the person a fighting chance with just a little hope in God, to do what He promised.
You argue for the cause of failure, because your faith is in the natural, and not in God to be faith who promised to fulfill His word.

 

[wolfwint]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I was only trying to drive home a point.
I don't believe it's not God's will for all to come to repentance so they don't perish. I believe what is written, AS IT IS WRITTEN.
I understand God leaves out words and even phrases to hide some truths, but when it takes a promise in an entirely different direction, that to me is perverting or corrupting scripture and the truth.
What I was doing by adding the will of God to the verses like the one above, was to show how drastically it changes the meaning of the promise.
I don't get any replies when I do this because I think they see just how stupid it sounds. Yet many here on CC do it all the time to certain promises.
To many, it's okay for it to be God's will for everyone to come to repentance, but it is a horse of a different when it come to scripture that promises to give you whatsoever YOU WANT, WILL, OR DESIRE.
What should be foundational doctrines of the church, is treated as doctrines of devils.
Basic truths become lies, and the lies become truths.
Good is treated as evil, and evil as good, blessings as curses and curses as blessings.
Sickness use to be a curse, now it is a blessing of God.
Scripture is either ignored, perverted, twisted, or tainted some way to change the meaning.
A corrupt tree can only produce corrupt fruit.
I see the same thing going on with scripture as I do in the political world.
Lies and deception to keep the people under their influence.
So let's look at the verse again, and another one, only with the will of God added to it, and tell me if it changes the meaning.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, if it be the will of God.

Well, did it change the meaning any?
Does it even make any sense?
Did it remain the truth after adding the will of God to it?
Now let's look at other verses with the same thing added to the end.

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith, if it be the will of God.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them, if it be the will of God.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him, if it be the will of God.

I could go on and on with this.
You don't need to ADD the will of God to any of the above verses, because the will of God or the conditions of God are already written.
Point being, if it doesn't make sense adding the will of God to scripture concerning salvation and other pet doctrines of the denominational churches, since it changes the meaning of the promises, turns it into a lie, corrupts, twists, and perverts it, why then in God's name do they do it to other promises?
To me, this profanes the word of God and that is not only blasphemous, but an abomination to God.

Who is Really acting according James 5?
From pentecostal ore charismatic and many free churches and also from protestant i die not hear that they acting according James 5. Most of them have a Pastor, but no eldest ( plural) which lead a Church.

 

[Budman]

It sure would be nice if those name it and claim it folks would go into hospitals and claim healing for everyone. Or control natural disasters like tornadoes as Kenneth and Gloria Copeland claim they can do. Or claim missing limbs to grow back.

If they could make a single arm, leg...heck, even a finger grow back by naming and claiming, I'll believe them forevermore.

 

[know1]

You are very negative, not me.
I'm realistic.
If I had found more passages in the Bible than you did, would that make me right?
There are not contradictions in the Bible.
If you can't make these passages I listed line up with your passages, then you don't know it all.

I am negative to the evil and positive to the good.
By you saying you're a "realist", speaks volumes.
You have your eyes, and therefore you faith, in the natural. In other words, a carnally minded person.

Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

You have the world before your eyes and NOT the word of God.
Your reality is the way things work in the natural, and therefore subject to the natural.
If your eyes were on the word of God, the natural would be subject to it.

 

[wolfwint]

FollowHisSteps, Gods love came to deliver us from sin and death not illness and suffering.
The whole point of love is it lives despite the cost and problems along the way.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Is sicknesses and diseases of God or of the devil?

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

God sent Jesus to deliver us from both sin and the curse of the law of sin and death. One of which is sicknesses and diseases.


There is a whole industry dedicated to making people believe they should trust God to heal
them and not take medicine which will cure or keep them healthy. These people die, literally
as a result.
I agree with you concerning the sick taking their medicines, if that is what is keeping them alive.
People think and are taught that if they just act on the word, they God will heal them.
That is not how it works.
Without faith for that healing, you can act all you want, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
Just because the teachers give the doctrine a bad name, doesn't mean it's a doctrine of devils, nor does it make if a lie.

And this is the point. We need to be wise to what solves problems and issues and bring all
to the Lord for His blessing.
This sounds like a cop-out and a preparation for failure.
I'd like to know how anyone could even begin to have faith when you're already prepping them to die.
Since you don't believe God's going to do anything to begin with, the only thing you are doing is handing the person a binky to mollify them into accepting the inevitable.

My church has prayed for many who are sick, who have died within a short period.
Your answer is they did not have enough faith. The problem is across the whole church a similar
pattern emerges. Most simply die. So either these are not faithful believers or the idea that God
desires to heal all is false.
Just to set the record straight, Jesus did not have a 100% success rate in healing people. Many failed to receive, because THEY failed to believe.
The word of God says, that one reason why Jesus suffered, was for their healing. If it wasn't God's will, He wouldn't have covered that as part of Jesus' work on the cross.
If your church teaches what you do, then it is no wonder why many, if not most, fail to receive their healing, as faith comes by hearing the word of God, that God WILL heal them, NOT the reverse or that He won't, or you never know what God's going to do, or the will of God be done.
No faith, none.
Yes, part of the problem is indeed a lack of faith, and that is because many people, like yourself, have no clue as to what it is or how it works.
Another major big time problem is knowing WHY the person fell ill, and HOW to get rid of it. That being, the SIN of the person or their parents.
Because so many teaching, 'your sins are automatically forgiven, past, present, and future', people think they don't have to repent of anything, when the truth is in MOST cases, the illness came on them as a DIRECT RESULT OF A SIN THEY COMMITTED AND HAVE NOT BEEN FORGIVEN OF.
Repent and confess your sins FIRST, then command the spirit that cause the illness to go, in the name of Jesus. After that, do what the word of God says, then ask God to heal so and so, according to His word, and if nothing happens at that moment, continue to praise Him, KNOWING IT IS DONE. And sooner or later, it will take place.
In the mean time, the person should continue taking the meds.

The biggest failure people have is in seeing we now live in a world where most will live till they
reach 70 years old. Never before in history has this happened.
Yet with such a blessing, this is not good enough. And this is the problem. We want eternity and
no problems or suffering here now on earth, and to not believe this is to be an unbeliever and evil.
Wow, the big sin. To live a happy, HEALTHY, prosperous, victorious, and long life.
I thought we were talking about the God of heaven, not the god of earth and hell.
Again, you try to make what is godly and good, to be evil and bad.
My guess is, this is what is taught in your church, and you wonder why God doesn't heal many, if any, in the congregation.

Spoilt children always want more of the things they already have too much of.
Seriously?!
Too much health?
Living too long?
Who are you advocating and propagating for, God or the devil?
What happened to the good new or the gospel of Jesus Christ?
You teach that it's better to no even bother trying to believe in healing, because they might be disappointed and not get what they want or ask for, than to at the very least, give the person a fighting chance with just a little hope in God, to do what He promised.
You argue for the cause of failure, because your faith is in the natural, and not in God to be faith who promised to fulfill His word.

If you Read the Gospel and Acts then you will find that this combined with one thing. To reveal that Jesus is the Son of God, the promissed messajah ( john 20, 29-30). And it leads the healed person to believe in Jesus Christ.
Today the most Miracles and healings are taking place in Mission/evangelisic Actiions. That People turn to Christ. This is the Main goal. Not for to give the believer heaven in earth.
Who Really follow Jesus has to suffer and is an enemy of the World and will be persecutet.
This is what Jesus and the Apostels taught and the Bible Teach.
And many believers today face.
It seems that christians in the Western rich Countrys forget this.
They like to have the heaven in earth Now.
And they find many teacher which bring them this false doctrine in an attractive Gift.

 

[know1]

It sure would be nice if those name it and claim it folks would go into hospitals and claim healing for everyone. Or control natural disasters like tornadoes as Kenneth and Gloria Copeland claim they can do. Or claim missing limbs to grow back.

If they could make a single arm, leg...heck, even a finger grow back by naming and claiming, I'll believe them forevermore.

No you wouldn't, because there would be that one case you'd focus on and say, "see, it's not God's will for everyone to be healed."
How do you explain Jesus' failure to heal everyone?
What's His excuse?
Or rather, what excuse do you have for Him?

 

[Budman]

No you wouldn't, because there would be that one case you'd focus on and say, "see, it's not God's will for everyone to be healed."
How do you explain Jesus' failure to heal everyone?
What's His excuse?
Or rather, what excuse do you have for Him?

If you believe you can simple name something and claim it for it to be done, why aren't you proving it by going into the hospitals and having them all healed?

Why are you spending so much time on this site and not out raising the dead, or stopping a tornado?

 

[wolfwint]

No you wouldn't, because there would be that one case you'd focus on and say, "see, it's not God's will for everyone to be healed."
How do you explain Jesus' failure to heal everyone?
What's His excuse?
Or rather, what excuse do you have for Him?

I would say this was just not his main goal. And if you would not ignore John 20, 29-30 you would recognize this.
Sorry Budman this was asked to you.

 

[Budman]

I would say this was just not his main goal. And if you would not ignore John 20, 29-30 you would recognize this.
Sorry Budman this was asked to you.

I wonder why Timothy didn't just name and claim his stomach illness to be healed. Or Paul with the "thorn" in his side.

Guess they just didn't have enough faith!

 

[AllenW]

I am negative to the evil and positive to the good.
By you saying you're a "realist", speaks volumes.
You have your eyes, and therefore you faith, in the natural. In other words, a carnally minded person.

Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

You have the world before your eyes and NOT the word of God.
Your reality is the way things work in the natural, and therefore subject to the natural.
If your eyes were on the word of God, the natural would be subject to it.

Why is wealth a big part in the name it and claim it crowd.
Jesus had nothing.
Paul had nothing.
Kenneth Copeland has billions.
Tell us know1, how much riches do you have?

 

[Budman]

Why is wealth a big part in the name it and claim it crowd.
Jesus had nothing.
Paul had nothing.
Kenneth Copeland has billions.
Tell us know1, how much riches do you have?

You know, it's so odd when they claim if people sow a financial "seed" into their ministry, they will get a huge "harvest" (return) from the Lord, yet those "pastors" don't give all of their money to other ministries to gain an even greater financial windfall.

 

[know1]

I am negative to the evil and positive to the good.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Just to clarify what I meant when I said "evil".

 

[Brad47]

You know, it's so odd when they claim if people sow a financial "seed" into their ministry, they will get a huge "harvest" (return) from the Lord, yet those "pastors" don't give all of their money to other ministries to gain an even greater financial windfall.

Yea, and according to scripture we're not even supposed to be concerned with getting wealthy.

Many scriptures say things like be content with such things as you have and lay your treasures up in heaven not on the earth etc.

I'd feel like a heel praying and demanding that God make me rich. Pretty sure he wouldn't like it either.

 

[know1]

If you believe you can simple name something and claim it for it to be done, why aren't you proving it by going into the hospitals and having them all healed?

Why are you spending so much time on this site and not out raising the dead, or stopping a tornado?

You are revealing your ignorance of faith and how it works.
First off, I never claimed I could do those things, and I wouldn't, as it not only depends on my faith, but "according to your faith" as well. As in THEIR faith, according to what Jesus said.
Jesus didn't heal the doubters, but those who believed. Many failed to receive their healing because they failed to believe.
It works the same way today, as it did then.
And if the person doing the naming and claiming doesn't believe, it most certainly will NOT work. Nothing will happen.
And most times, for God to do things you name and claim, you have to say it over and over again. And the reason for that is to get that person to believe, as faith comes by hearing. So you need to hear it until you believe it more than the contrary situation that's screaming in your face or in your body.
It's not the easiest thing to believe something is already done, BEFORE YOU SEE OR FEEL IT in the natural.

 

[know1]

I would say this was just not his main goal. And if you would not ignore John 20, 29-30 you would recognize this.

This is exactly what the doubter do to me all the time.
They won't believe what is written UNTIL they see it with their own eyes.
But even then, after seeing Jesus raised from the dead standing before them, MANY DOUBTED.
I honestly don't know how they can justify themselves, seeing "the just shall live by faith".

 

[know1]

Why is wealth a big part in the name it and claim it crowd.
Jesus had nothing.
Paul had nothing.
Kenneth Copeland has billions.
Tell us know1, how much riches do you have?

But what is written?

 

[MadHermit]

The problem expressed in the OP is a failure to acknowledge the paradoxical language of Scripture. On the one hand, Jesus often seems promise unqualified supernatural results for faith. On the other hand, petitionary prayer is only effective if it complies with God's will. faith problems arise when we prematurely presume to know God's will for a given need. The chief danger of the first possibility is that believers express their needs in prayer without worrying about whether they have the faith that brings results. The chief danger of the second possibility is that believers become disillusioned with God and biblical teaching when God does not respond when they put His promises to the test.