Still waiting for an answer of YES or NO. 
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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You have had your answer, though I know you cannot understand it
Disqualified; castaway; rejected not much difference.
CONTEXT shows a disqualification alright.
It implies no finish of the race. One crown to be awarded. An nonperishable one. And this my friend is only given to those who finish.
Contexts implies no crown because the race is not finished due to a disqualification.
1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Partaker of what? The Gospel with you.
If someone is not partaking of the Gospel are they saved?
NO they are not.
"Might be a partaker" is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The mood of possibilities. In other words His partaking of the Gospel is not a given. There is a possibility that he will not. This comes out even clearer as we continue.
In respect to verse 23's proclamation Paul continues.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
So run that ye might obtain.
Obtain what? Salvation through the life in Christ; the Gospel.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
So let us Run temperate in all things that we might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life through Christ.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
I therefore so run; temperate in all things that I might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life, Paul says.
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul says "Lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
Cast; Disqualified from what? The Race he himself is running.That He might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life,
CONTEXT shows a disqualification alright.
It implies no finish of the race. One crown to be awarded. An nonperishable one. And this my friend is only given to those who finish.
Contexts implies no crown because the race is not finished due to a disqualification.
1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Partaker of what? The Gospel with you.
If someone is not partaking of the Gospel are they saved?
NO they are not.
"Might be a partaker" is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The mood of possibilities. In other words His partaking of the Gospel is not a given. There is a possibility that he will not. This comes out even clearer as we continue.
In respect to verse 23's proclamation Paul continues.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
So run that ye might obtain.
Obtain what? Salvation through the life in Christ; the Gospel.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
So let us Run temperate in all things that we might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life through Christ.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
I therefore so run; temperate in all things that I might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life, Paul says.
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul says "Lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
Cast; Disqualified from what? The Race he himself is running.That He might obtain the crown that is imperishable; eternal life,
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E
People forget, when jesus says anyone, who does he mean? Well i am a someone, so it must mean me, i can not snatch myself out of gods hands.
If your child is trying to jump of a cliff, are you going to let go of them? Are you going to let them overpower you to break free and kill himself.
Well if we could lose salvation, that would be lik jumping of a cliff. Both would cause death, and you , or I or anyone would never let ou child jump, why do we think God would?
If your child is trying to jump of a cliff, are you going to let go of them? Are you going to let them overpower you to break free and kill himself.
Well if we could lose salvation, that would be lik jumping of a cliff. Both would cause death, and you , or I or anyone would never let ou child jump, why do we think God would?
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Show me where you answered either YES or NO to my question. It was a simple question.
It was a simple question.
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Show me where you answered either YES or NO to my question. It was a simple question.
It was a simple question.
But tell me, if the Holy Spirit teaches you/gives you discernment of what you read, why can you not discern and explain what is written in romans7:7-13? But you cannot can you, for it is a spiritual message in spiritual words. You are always welcome to prove me wrong, specifically telling me when exactly Paul is speaking of in his life, why sin was able to use the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him and do a full exegesis of all the verses. Surely a person with ''deep understanding'' could do that
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To leave and "give back" the gift of one's salvation would require the giver to willingly receive it back. God has a strict no-return policy.
Also, the idea violates the following:
Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)
"No one" includes oneself. And "never" would not actually mean never.
The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)
If we can give back salvation by leaving, that pledge and guarantee isn't worth a lick.
The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
If we can walk away, we haven't been sealed until the day of redemption - only until we give back our salvation.
Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)
If we can give back salvation by leaving, then Jesus was mistaken when He said "none" of us (Christians) would be lost.
Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
To give back salvation would put the former believer back under judgment. So, "never" doesn't mean never according to Jesus again.
The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)
"Irrevocable" means: "Not able to be changed, reversed, or recovered; final." But I guess Paul (and God) doesn't know that.
The Bible says nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)
Are we created? Then not even we can do it.
The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)
If we can walk away, the "good work" would absolutely not be completed.
The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
If we can give back our salvation, we have not been perfected for all time, only up until we walk away.
The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)
Yet again, I guess Jesus didn't understand the word "never".
The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)
According to you, we sustain ourselves by our continued belief until the end.
The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)
If we can walk away, the debt returns, even though Jesus paid it in full on the cross. So, "canceled" doesn't actually mean canceled in scripture.
Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)
Oops, there goes Jesus again - not knowing what the word "never" actually means.
Also, if you also believe one can get re-saved by believing in Jesus again, how many saved/leave experiences is one allowed?
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John 10:27-28 (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
notice: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
dont deny the plain statement of God's Word -- "My sheep follow me." There are no exceptions allowed.
He who follows is one of the sheep. He who does not follow is not of Christ's fold no matter how loudly he may bleat his "ba-a-a's."
these are all present-tense statements. "They are hearing My voice"; "they are following Me"; "I am giving eternal life"; those who are so doing "shall never perish."
There is absolutely nothing in this scripture, or anywhere else in the Bible, to give false confidence to any who are not now following the Lord, whatever their past might have been.
We must not wrest the Scriptures, as some do, "unto their own destruction" (II Pet. 3:16).
Nobody on this website is authorized to rewrite this passage to read, "They once heard My voice and followed Me, and I give unto them eternal life."
By no stretch of the imagination can these verses properly be supposed to give security to wandering, straying sheep, who go after the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy (v. 10).
Reduced to its simplest logic, this passage asserts: All who are secure are Christ's sheep; None who do not follow are Christ's sheep. Therefore, none who do not follow are secure.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
notice: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
dont deny the plain statement of God's Word -- "My sheep follow me." There are no exceptions allowed.
He who follows is one of the sheep. He who does not follow is not of Christ's fold no matter how loudly he may bleat his "ba-a-a's."
these are all present-tense statements. "They are hearing My voice"; "they are following Me"; "I am giving eternal life"; those who are so doing "shall never perish."
There is absolutely nothing in this scripture, or anywhere else in the Bible, to give false confidence to any who are not now following the Lord, whatever their past might have been.
We must not wrest the Scriptures, as some do, "unto their own destruction" (II Pet. 3:16).
Nobody on this website is authorized to rewrite this passage to read, "They once heard My voice and followed Me, and I give unto them eternal life."
By no stretch of the imagination can these verses properly be supposed to give security to wandering, straying sheep, who go after the thief that comes to steal, kill, and destroy (v. 10).
Reduced to its simplest logic, this passage asserts: All who are secure are Christ's sheep; None who do not follow are Christ's sheep. Therefore, none who do not follow are secure.
Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)
...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1-19
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?
So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Still waiting for an answer. YES or NO.
Who said that I could not explain what is written in Romans 7:7-13? What am I'm supposed to prove you wrong about?
Who said that I could not explain what is written in Romans 7:7-13? What am I'm supposed to prove you wrong about?
Secondly, prove to me, that you who study the greek and concordances can do a full exegesis of every verse in rom7:7-13, the KJV would be fine, specifically addressing when exactly Paul is speaking of in his life and why sin could use the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him
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you see all you can do is deflect isn't it. Its one thing to try and overturn the plain words of the bible in a discussion such as osas, quite another to spiritually discern what I have asked you to discern. Because you cannot do it, you have to deflect. Better to forget reading the greek and concordances, and rely on another way to learn
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Yet, I wonder why you continue to ignore my reply to this:
You said: Which is:
How long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?
A second?
A minute?
An hour, a day, a week, a month?
And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?
If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?
Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?
You said: Which is:
How long can a Christian have unbelief before salvation is lost?
A second?
A minute?
An hour, a day, a week, a month?
And what if that person believes again later in life - can they be re-saved?
If so, aren't you one of those who don't believe in multiple regenerations?
Since unbelief is a sin (John 16:9) why was not the sin of unbelief paid for the Christian via the atonement?
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What is emphasized in bolded print is a definite YES in respects to the question you were asked. d
My friend No translation is perfect.
As you know The Bible was written in the Greek, Aramaic and the Hebrew. Due to the Spirit almost being quench or partially heard we have translation which do not always convey God's complete intent. And or our ears and eyes as we are prompted through HIS Word or HIS Spirit do not always hear and see what HE wants clearly.
God calls us to reason. The Lexicons that we have in relation to the Holy Writ our helps from GOD due to our stopped ears and cloaked eyes. But alas they are polluted with man's commentary also and require Spiritual discernment.
As you know The Bible was written in the Greek, Aramaic and the Hebrew. Due to the Spirit almost being quench or partially heard we have translation which do not always convey God's complete intent. And or our ears and eyes as we are prompted through HIS Word or HIS Spirit do not always hear and see what HE wants clearly.
God calls us to reason. The Lexicons that we have in relation to the Holy Writ our helps from GOD due to our stopped ears and cloaked eyes. But alas they are polluted with man's commentary also and require Spiritual discernment.