Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Your use of the length of time needed for trees in nature to bear fruit carries over into Jesus' intent in the teachings about believer's being trees and bearing fruit. But that is a misapplication of scripture, because Jesus' intent was not to say "how long" it takes believers to bear fruit. It is a horrible mishandling of scripture on your part, and on GB9's part.

To say it takes ten, twenty years, whatever for whatever tree to bear fruit, and then apply that to Jesus' words is mistaking Jesus' actual intent and meaning in His words. It is MISAPPROPRIATING SCRIPTURE for your own benefit.

Cease and desist. You have been refuted.

You have refuted nothing.....seriously dude...you are making yourself look bad....

 

[dcontroversal]

What is the central truth of that parable? That it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit? UMMMMM....NO!

Stick the the subject of my post pal....or be found a deceiver....oh wait...that has already been determined....

 

[UnderGrace]

Do not make a parable walk on all fours “In every parable, many circumstances and details are introduced which are intended merely to complete the similitudes in the parable. The interpreter should not attempt to interpret all such details. A parable. . . has but one central truth. Therefore, discover the central truth or theme which the parable is setting forth, and then explain the main circumstances of the parable in light of this truth, leaving out details incidental to its central idea” (Tan, p. 148). “To hunt for meanings in every detail in the parables is to turn them into allegories” (Zuck, p. 216).

https://plantedinchrist.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/hermeneutics-101-interpreting-parables-part-2/

WHat is the one central truth in the parables about trees and bearing fruit? How long it takes? UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM>………….NO!

The point is the conditions for a soil to bear fruit, pretty simple, big picture, central truth.

Therefore some soils may not bear fruit but they are still saved because Jesus plainly says so.

The central point is to bear fruit one should strive to be like the fourth soil.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have said since day 1 of our back and fourth that it does not matter how long it takes to bear fruit, as long as it comes. you keep obsessing over how long.

only judgemnetal people like you care about things like that,

I have never disagreed with this truth......He would be rich if he would sell his patents on these tress, fruits and veggies that bear fruit the day after being planted.....Imagine a garden producing from day 2 to the first frost......!!! Crap, we would have to buy all the BALL jars Walmart has to can it all.......

 

[Macabeus]

The point is the conditions for a soil to bear fruit, pretty simple, big picture, central truth.

Therefore some soils may not bear fruit but they are still saved because Jesus plainly says so.

The good soil was prepared before it received the seed. It was not a matter of preparation after it received the seed that made it bear fruit.

John the Baptist came AND WAS USED BY GOD to prepare the people for the Messiah. The prophets were sent to prepare the people for Jesus, the Law was given to prepare the people for Jesus. These preparations tilled the soil for the seed (the Gospel)

God uses things to prepare us to receive the Gospel too. Like the Law that convicts us, our conscience, etc.

 

[dcontroversal]

"Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great." As He said these things, He would call out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I can use big bold letters as well...........what the heck does GREW UP MEAN.................TIME for it to GROW before it PRODUCES, but hey, lets just foam at the mouth, rant and rave against the truth because we just cannot be honest!!!

 

[Macabeus]

"Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great." As He said these things, He would call out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I can use big bold letters as well...........what the heck does GREW UP MEAN.................TIME for it to GROW before it PRODUCES, but hey, lets just foam at the mouth, rant and rave against the truth because we just cannot be honest!!!

It doesn't say how long it takes to begin to grow up. And the question of "does it take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit" IS NOT THE INTENT OF THE PARABLE. Eisegesis and misapplication of scripture on your part.

If you don't get it yet, there's no use in continuing.

 

[UnderGrace]

The good soil was prepared before it received the seed. It was not a matter of preparation after it received the seed that made it bear fruit.

John the Baptist came AND WAS USED BY GOD to prepare the people for the Messiah. The prophets were sent to prepare the people for Jesus, the Law was given to prepare the people for Jesus. These preparations tilled the soil for the seed (the Gospel)

God uses things to prepare us to receive the Gospel too. Like the Law that convicts us, our conscience, etc.

Well I do not see that in the parable so you are adding to the text.

Also soil only needs to be treated when the nutrients are depleted, good soil is good soil, trust me I know.

 

[dcontroversal]

It doesn't say how long it takes to begin to grow up. And the question of "does it take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit" IS NOT THE INTENT OF THE PARABLE. Eisegesis and misapplication of scripture on your part.

If you don't get it yet, there's no use in continuing.

You're right there is not sense in continuing to engage you since you cannot be honest and keep talking about some dude named Eisegesis.......bdee bdee bdee

I guess JESUS did not know what he was talking about either.........magic seed.....chunk it on the ground and POOF insta-fruit

Before you jump on the above I suggest a study of the word....

sar·casm
/ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

 

[unclesilas]

I've been asked this same silly question since I've been here.

To which I have replied...never as well as you.

If someone cannot understand the bible properly,,,they won't understand anything.
This is the conclusion I've come to.

But the truth must be told...no matter how many times.
Onward Christian Soldier....

I think they come at this with the need to believe no one can lose their salvation, so it doesn't matter what scripture plainly states, it must be ignored, or somehow set aside. You cannot get any mature debate when that is the case, sadly

 

[Macabeus]

Well I do not see that in the parable so you are adding to the text.

Also soil only needs to be treated when the nutrients are depleted, good soil is good soil, trust me I know.

Was the soil good before or after the seed was planted?

Oh and btw, CROPS don't take years to grow. If they did, people would have starved to death

Another indication that your exegesis is very flawed

 

[Hevosmies]

There are MANY that will argue against the truth of the following...

a. It is the spirit that has been born again from above by the free, irrevocable gift of faith and eternal life from seed that is incorruptible

b. It is still housed in a body that is dead because of sin, not subject unto the word and always craves that which is contrary

c. The battle ground is the mind and must be renewed daily by the study of the word of GOD....if transformed by a study and application of the word, not only with the spirit grow and mature, but the outward actions will change because of the inward change<--this process is the same word metamorphosis <---and we understand this aspect. If no study or little study the change will not be complete and our walk will be worldly and carnal

Personal testimony....after the Marines i fell into a life of drugs and immorality......was as wicked and vile as they come.....I had believed in the Lord as a young man, but had not been in church, never studied etc. and I walked contrary.....and make no mistake....anytime I would see a smoking hot chic in my mind......you all get the drift....

Once I started going back to church and hearing the word I began to be convicted of my lifestyle.......I decided that I needed to move to get away from my so called "friends" I wrote a letter apologizing for my misleading life, witnessed and passed it out to every person I could find that I had partied with......they all dropped me like a rock except one.....I moved, immersed my self in the word and church and I began to change on the outside because of the inward change (I.E. feeding my spirit the word) NOW....I can look at a "smoking hot chic" and think yeah she is pretty etc. but I do not go the extra step...I have control over my thoughts and can keep my body in subjection......

This is not to say that I do not fail in areas and or am without daily struggles......we all have them if we are honest....

Thanks. Would you say that what I wrote about going thru is just that as well?

Spirit is born again, but my flesh still wants that which is contrary? That would actually be a great explanation for why I feel so 'torn' at times.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is not about needing anything pal, but rather being HONEST with verb tense, verbiage and the context of the bible....Maybe your need is to get glory and boast that you need to HELP JESUS do what he said he will do because your JESUS is not found in scripture......!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wrong again....you do not believe in eternal security....you believe in a self maintained salvation that is dependent upon what YOU do and not what Christ does.......and that is the difference between you and I.....

I boast in JESUS

You boast in yourself and what YOU DO to maintain it....<----that is NOT the faith and hope the bible lays bare.....

And who cares about all of the Baskin Robbins 57 flavors of Christianity.......woven throughout that whole mess is a linage of truthful churches and believers........

And as far as the (sad statement) WHY would I agree with someone that ignores context, Greek verb tense, hundreds of scriptures and the simple truth that the irrevocable gift of faith is what saves a man eternally...the same FAITH JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES

You do understand the words FINISHES and COMPLETES right

Sure I do. It's just that YOU don't understand them.

Could you explain to the crowd here the difference between
OSAS and
Eternal Security
??

 

[Hevosmies]

Your use of the length of time needed for trees in nature to bear fruit carries over into Jesus' intent in the teachings about believer's being trees and bearing fruit. But that is a misapplication of scripture, because Jesus' intent was not to say "how long" it takes believers to bear fruit. It is a horrible mishandling of scripture on your part, and on GB9's part.

To say it takes ten, twenty years, whatever for whatever tree to bear fruit, and then apply that to Jesus' words is mistaking Jesus' actual intent and meaning in His words. It is MISAPPROPRIATING SCRIPTURE for your own benefit.

Cease and desist. You have been refuted.

Jesus used parables.

You must be a city boy if you believe that fruit just pops up on a tree. It takes watering, right weather conditions and no pests!

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks. Would you say that what I wrote about going thru is just that as well?

Spirit is born again, but my flesh still wants that which is contrary? That would actually be a great explanation for why I feel so 'torn' at times.

Brother...PAUL spoke about this himself....The things I say I am going to do I do not and the the things I say I am not going to do I do....this is from an Apostle that wrote almost half of the N.T.....

He went from...

a. The least of the apostles to....
b. The least of the saints to.....
c. The NUMBER one chief sinner among men <-----this was written in the present tense......

We all struggle, but it is an excellent explanation for your struggle....anyone that struggles.........The spirit seeks to do right and the flesh is contrary to the spirit....

 

[gb9]

Was the soil good before or after the seed was planted?

Oh and btw, CROPS don't take years to grow. If they did, people would have starved to death

Another indication that your exegesis is very flawed

go find an apple tree that is about is tall as you are. bring it home, plant it. wait 1 full calendar year. see how many apples you will have.

* hint- you will not need a bucket.

 

[Hevosmies]

The things I say I am going to do I do not and the the things I say I am not going to do I do....this is from an Apostle that wrote almost half of the N.T.....

Thanks a lot

Where does Paul say that though? Last question on this promise lol

 

[Macabeus]

You're right there is not sense in continuing to engage you since you cannot be honest and keep talking about some dude named Eisegesis.......bdee bdee bdee

I guess JESUS did not know what he was talking about either.........magic seed.....chunk it on the ground and POOF insta-fruit

Before you jump on the above I suggest a study of the word....

sar·casm
/ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Does it take years for crops to be harvested? Not trees, but the crops Jesus is talking about in Matthew 13? Nope. If it did, people would starve to death

So the early church, when people got saved, could not bear fruit until mature. If that were true, Christianity would not have spread as rapidly as it did.

The apostles converts were making disciples, who in turn made disciples. That is how the fruit of the Gospel filled the earth even during Paul's lifetime

Your paradigm would have greatly slowed the progress of the Gospel

Poor argument on your part

 

[Macabeus]

go find an apple tree that is about is tall as you are. bring it home, plant it. wait 1 full calendar year. see how many apples you will have.

* hint- you will not need a bucket.

If you think that is the intent of the tree symbol, you are badly mistaken. Plus there are many crops that don't take years to yield