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Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Here is a summation from a detailed study;

The concept of predestination falls very neatly into the overall plan of God. God knows every choice that we will make and under every circumstance that we will make this or that choice. He knows in advance who will believe in Jesus Christ. His foreknowledge of such things is like a mother who knows her 5-year-old son. Every parent knows at a very early age that their son or daughter has free will. We may know this child’s predilections, but their free will is all theirs. We know that when we tell this 5-year-old son, “Do not touch the burner on the stove” that, 3 minutes later, we will find him moving a stood over next to the stove so that he can pull himself up to stove level and touch that burner. Our foreknowledge of what he will do does not mean that we have control over this child’s free will. We just simply know our own child and what he will do, and often, we account for that when it comes to guiding him in life. A clever parent may tell his son, “Now, Johnny, listen to me carefully; I do not want you to do...” And, as we expect, 3 minutes later, he is doing exactly what we told him not to do, and he hurts himself, and while we comfort him, we remind him, “Now, I told you not to do that. I am your father [or mother] and you need to listen to me and obey me when I tell you not to do something.” And children like me, after we burn our hands for the umpteenth time (or whatever), we finally catch on. Just like a mother knows her own son and what he will do, God knows us perfectly and how we will respond to His calling. Since He knows how we will respond, he predestines us to be conformed to His Son and He predestines us to function according to His purpose and His plan. Predestination is not a difficult topic; we just have to read what the Bible actually says on this subject, in context, and apply a little common sense.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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related to this topic i meant the WORKETH ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will

isnt this predestination?
I only address the specific things that Scripture has stated concerning predestination. I never want to assume anything. Where is the word predestined used and who or what has been predestined, and to what have they been predestined? That’s my concern.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
Here is a summation from a detailed study;

The concept of predestination falls very neatly into the overall plan of God. God knows every choice that we will make and under every circumstance that we will make this or that choice. He knows in advance who will believe in Jesus Christ. His foreknowledge of such things is like a mother who knows her 5-year-old son. Every parent knows at a very early age that their son or daughter has free will. We may know this child’s predilections, but their free will is all theirs. We know that when we tell this 5-year-old son, “Do not touch the burner on the stove” that, 3 minutes later, we will find him moving a stood over next to the stove so that he can pull himself up to stove level and touch that burner. Our foreknowledge of what he will do does not mean that we have control over this child’s free will. We just simply know our own child and what he will do, and often, we account for that when it comes to guiding him in life. A clever parent may tell his son, “Now, Johnny, listen to me carefully; I do not want you to do...” And, as we expect, 3 minutes later, he is doing exactly what we told him not to do, and he hurts himself, and while we comfort him, we remind him, “Now, I told you not to do that. I am your father [or mother] and you need to listen to me and obey me when I tell you not to do something.” And children like me, after we burn our hands for the umpteenth time (or whatever), we finally catch on. Just like a mother knows her own son and what he will do, God knows us perfectly and how we will respond to His calling. Since He knows how we will respond, he predestines us to be conformed to His Son and He predestines us to function according to His purpose and His plan. Predestination is not a difficult topic; we just have to read what the Bible actually says on this subject, in context, and apply a little common sense.
Problem with this is we don’t know for sure the decisions of our child, and further, one is not a child of God until the new birth upon believing the gospel.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Mr Mathematician, sir. I need some help interpreting your charts here. What is this supposed to mean?
these are maps of the paths of all solar eclipses on the earth's surface for the last 100 years.

i wanted to put the actual evidence down next to Endoscopy's statement about eclipses and see how they match up.
according to him, it means that an awful lot of what we consider 1st world countries have been 3rd world countries for quite a while now.


i can dig up eclipse paths from previous centuries, too. amazing thing about the moon and sun is that they are a clock - predictable. so we can go forward and backward through the calendar and see whether what he says about eclipses condemning countries to economic ruin actually matches history.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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these are maps of the paths of all solar eclipses on the earth's surface for the last 100 years.

i wanted to put the actual evidence down next to Endoscopy's statement about eclipses and see how they match up.
basically we're all in 3rd world living standards according to that map. OY VEY!
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
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Problem with this is we don’t know for sure the decisions of our child, and further, one is not a child of God until the new birth upon believing the gospel.
If you replace “we” and “our” in your statement with “God,” it makes a difference. I think He uses the saved and unsaved all throughout the OT and NT. If there is something He doesn’t know, then He is not the God of the Bible.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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basically we're all in 3rd world living standards according to that map. OY VEY!
yeah and we have been for almost 200 years -- ???

this is a map of two eclipses that crossed the USA in 1831 & 1834


1834_November_30_TSE_&_1831_February_12_ASE_Charles_Bowen_1.jpg



needless to say i am a little bit doubtful about what Endoscopy is saying in re: eclipses.

if i remember correctly, i think i pointed all this out to him back in 2017 when we had that total solar eclipse in America, and everyone was suddenly like, eclipses, signs, doom, etc.

apparently my conversations with him on the subject had no effect with regard to his beliefs about them. pretty sure i posted a bunch of eclipse maps back then, too -- so i'm kinda repeating myself now that i see he is still saying this..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
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yeah and we have been for almost 200 years -- ???

this is a map of two eclipses that crossed the USA in 1831 & 1834


View attachment 194438



needless to say i am a little bit doubtful about what Endoscopy is saying in re: eclipses.

if i remember correctly, i think i pointed all this out to him back in 2017 when we had that total solar eclipse in America, and everyone was suddenly like, eclipses, signs, doom, etc.

apparently my conversations with him on the subject had no effect with regard to his beliefs about them. pretty sure i posted a bunch of eclipse maps back then, too -- so i'm kinda repeating myself now that i see he is still saying this..
and here is US economic growth from 1800 to present...

so...


1800-to-present-real-per-capita-GDP.png
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
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yeah and we have been for almost 200 years -- ???

this is a map of two eclipses that crossed the USA in 1831 & 1834


View attachment 194438



needless to say i am a little bit doubtful about what Endoscopy is saying in re: eclipses.

if i remember correctly, i think i pointed all this out to him back in 2017 when we had that total solar eclipse in America, and everyone was suddenly like, eclipses, signs, doom, etc.

apparently my conversations with him on the subject had no effect with regard to his beliefs about them. pretty sure i posted a bunch of eclipse maps back then, too -- so i'm kinda repeating myself now that i see he is still saying this..
Well the x is on Alabama. He may have a point. Lol
Blessings
Bill
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
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If you replace “we” and “our” in your statement with “God,” it makes a difference. I think He uses the saved and unsaved all throughout the OT and NT. If there is something He doesn’t know, then He is not the God of the Bible.
That would make Him not the God of your logic or man made definition. Allow the Bible to state the attributes of God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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That would make Him not the God of your logic or man made definition. Allow the Bible to state the attributes of God.
But when it pleased God, Who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood
(Galatians 1:15-16)

does this indicate that Paul was set apart by God only after he made a '
free will decision' on the road to Damascus?

seems to me that Paul considered God to have personally chosen him before he was even born, and that his conversion was a matter of revealing Himself to him, with an effectual calling of grace, not a matter of Paul doing something God had no previous knowledge of.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
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But when it pleased God, Who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood
(Galatians 1:15-16)

does this indicate that Paul was set apart by God only after he made a 'free will decision' on the road to Damascus?

seems to me that Paul considered God to have personally chosen him before he was even born, and that his conversion was a matter of revealing Himself to him, with an effectual calling of grace, not a matter of Paul doing something God had no previous knowledge of.
The whole context is what happened to Paul in Acts 9. There is nothing said about God choosing him before he was born. God separated him from his mother’s womb. Is this speaking of the Jews according to the flesh? Or simply acknowledging that the God who separated man from the womb has now called him to preach the gospel concerning this same God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There is nothing said about God choosing him before he was born.
it literally says God set him apart before he was born.

if you only think Paul is saying '
i was born Jewish' then why in the world did he think it important to tell this to the church in Galatia, who were being evangelized by false teachers trying to make them Jewish?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Well the x is on Alabama. He may have a point. Lol
Blessings
Bill
Bwahaha. Yeah its been proven! :D

Alabama does suck, swamps, mosquitos, warm weather, terrible! and I say that with utmost respect, Deontay Wilder is from there. Tuscaloosa i think it was.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,700
113
it literally says God set him apart before he was born.

if you only think Paul is saying 'i was born Jewish' then why in the world did he think it important to tell this to the church in Galatia, who were being evangelized by false teachers trying to make them Jewish?
He was born Jewish yet sent to the Gentiles.

It does not literally say that. It only says God separated him from his mother’s womb. That is birth.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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He was born Jewish yet sent to the Gentiles.

It does not literally say that. It only says God separated him from his mother’s womb. That is birth.
aphorizó: to mark off by boundaries from, i.e. set apart
Original Word: ἀφορίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aphorizó
Phonetic Spelling: (af-or-id'-zo)
Definition: to mark off by boundaries from, set apart

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God
(
Romans 1:1)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
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Did not He that made me in the womb make him?
and did not One fashion us in the womb?
(Job 31:15)