Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,841
Dec 12, 2013
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#85,841
PennEd said:
The entire passage in 1 Corinthians 9 Paul is talking about rewards, and prizes, NOT Salvation. Salvation is a GIFT, NOT A PRIZE TO BE WON. He did not want to be disqualified for rewards, crowns, and other good things at the judgement seat of Christ.

We tend to view everything in terms of saved or unsaved.
Obviously those are the most important distinctions, but we forget that there is going to be a judgement for the living (saved Saints) and the dead (unsaved).
Those things are going to become MASSIVELY important in light of eternity.
Click to expand...
So simple at the end of the day if one is honest with the verbiage, context and verb tenses......but hey...the workers for and salvation losers MUST help their weak JESUS because he cannot keep his word or promises.....makes me sick at how he is devalued by some
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#85,842
Feb 15, 2017
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#85,842
GodsGrace101 said:
It speaks to the future, but also to the past.
In the parable of the evil farmers...
Matthew 21:33...... It is plain to understand that Jesus is speaking of the prophets that had ALREADY been sent.

And please let's remember that the Apostles did not go to the gentiles because the Jews did not accept Jesus....but this was known from the very beginning,,,from Abraham and on.

I agree with the rest....
So what are we arguing about??
Click to expand...
If it was known from the beginning then Jesus knew that the Hebrews would reject him. But through the promise given to Abraham it would be fulfilled.

After all Abraham was not Jewish.

The gentiles were grafted in. And Paul warned them not to be haughty about it.

We cannot deny that Jesus whilst on this earth came for Israel.
But I think we agree that from the beginning the redemption is for all those who accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,843
Dec 12, 2013
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#85,843
Hevosmies said:
What is AofG? NEVER heard of it!
Click to expand...
Another "branch" of the charismatics.......My grandfather was one....he believed in a works based salvation and died from cancer....went out whipping around in the bed screaming that he was catching fire and begging for help and for someone to save him.....true story
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,844
Sep 14, 2018
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#85,844
dcontroversal said:
The only concern that Paul had was becoming unusable by GOD....he did not at any time teach or believe that he could lose salvation.......
Click to expand...
Right Dcon.

That's why the entire New Testament is chock full of:

IF
HOLD FAST
FALL AWAY
FORSAKE
DENY
CONTINUE IN THE WORD
ENDURE TO THE END
TURN FROM
ABIDE IN
NOT BE WEARY
CUT OFF
LOST
FOUND


Need more?

You really think Paul was worried about losing a crown or not being able to preach when others were also preaching. He NEVER gave himself so much important as you'd suggest.

Read 1 Corinthians Chapter 2.
He cares to know NOTHING...but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
He gave himself no such importance as you suggest.

He was VERY concerned about a person losing faith and becoming lost.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,845
Sep 14, 2018
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#85,845
BillG said:
If it was known from the beginning then Jesus knew that the Hebrews would reject him. But through the promise given to Abraham it would be fulfilled.

After all Abraham was not Jewish.

The gentiles were grafted in. And Paul warned them not to be haughty about it.

We cannot deny that Jesus whilst on this earth came for Israel.
But I think we agree that from the beginning the redemption is for all those who accept Jesus as Lord and saviour.
Click to expand...
Abraham was a Hebrew...I mentioned them.

Agreed on the above.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,846
Dec 12, 2013
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#85,846
GodsGrace101 said:
We don't need to know Greek to know what BELIEVE IN Jesus mean.

Jesus said we must be born from above.
John 3:3

He said to repent because the Kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mathew 4:17

IF we're born from above (born again) and we thus have repented it means that we have turned from walking toward satan and are now walking toward God.

IF we're walking toward God we now believe in HIM and in all that He has taught us.
God sent His only Son to teach us what He always wanted us to know all through the O.T. but it was necessary to "see" for ourselves how we are to be...and that is like Jesus.

So believing means that we trust everything Jesus tells us (and the N.T. writers who continued Jesus' ministry).

Now it becomes a matter of knowing what Jesus taught.
And here is where I see the problem in threads like this.
WHAT exactly DID Jesus teach?

John 14:21
John 14:23
John 14:24
John 10:27
John 8:51

What does believe mean in English?
It could mean believe someone exists....like the demons believed Jesus existed.
Or it could mean a heart belief...
To lean on
To trust
To have faith in
To follow
To obey (as a consequence of believing)
To be persuaded by that person (that he is right)

Any link on the internet will tell you the above...
there's no conflict of agreement on what the word believe means in the bible.
Click to expand...
No one has said that, however....one would have to be willfully stupid to not study from the original languages that the bible was inspired in to gain a deeper understanding and knowledge of the word and what it actually meant to a 1st century BELIEVER.....there are NUANCES and tenses in GREEK not brought forward in ENGLISH...........geesh...............your drivel never ceases to amaze....
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,847
Sep 14, 2018
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#85,847
dcontroversal said:
The only concern that Paul had was becoming unusable by GOD....he did not at any time teach or believe that he could lose salvation.......
Click to expand...
Gosh.
You don't know what REPROBATE means??


reprobate
/ˈrɛprəbeɪt/
noun

  1. 1.
    an unprincipled person.
    "he had to present himself as more of a lovable reprobate than a spirit of corruption"
    sinonimi:rogue, rascal, scoundrel, good-for-nothing, villain, wretch, unprincipled person, rake, profligate, degenerate, debauchee, libertine; Altro

  2. 2.
    ARCHAIC
    (in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.
adjective

  1. 1.
    unprincipled.
    "reprobate behaviour"
    sinonimi:unprincipled, roguish, bad, wicked, rakish, shameless, immoral, profligate, degenerate, dissipated, debauched, depraved, corrupt; Altro

  2. 2.
    ARCHAIC
    (in Calvinism) predestined to damnation.
verb
ARCHAIC

  1. 1.
    express or feel disapproval of.
    "his neighbours reprobated his method of proceeding"
    sinonimi:criticize, condemn, censure, denounce, express strong disapproval of;
    rarereprehend
    "they reprobated his conduct"

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


Definition of reprobate
(Entry 1 of 3)
transitive verb
1: to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evilreprobating the laxity of the age
2: to foreordain to damnation
3: to refuse to accept : REJECT
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,849
Dec 12, 2013
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#85,849
eternally-gratefull said:
I can believe something

At the same time, lack faith in something,

True saving believe comes with the means of trusting in a hope which can not be seen, and having an assurance that thing is trustworthy

The demons believe in jesus, they however do not think he is trustworthy, nor do they trust jesus father, its why they departed to begin with

Belief does not always mean faith,
Click to expand...
Exactly.....just like the demons believe that GOD is ONE, but NO SAVING FAITH into CHRIST
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,850
Sep 14, 2018
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#85,850
dcontroversal said:
No one has said that, however....one would have to be willfully stupid to not study from the original languages that the bible was inspired in to gain a deeper understanding and knowledge of the word and what it actually meant to a 1st century BELIEVER.....there are NUANCES and tenses in GREEK not brought forward in ENGLISH...........geesh...............your drivel never ceases to amaze....
Click to expand...
Yeah Dcon.
Explain it to me.
I only speak 3 languages.

So what you're saying is those who don't know Greek can't know the Word of God.

JESUS is the WORD OF GOD.
Not the bible.....
The bible teaches about God...
JESUS IS GOD.

We need to look to him for our salvation.

How DEEP does the understanding have to be?
Just act like He acted and you'll see Him when you die.
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#85,852
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#85,852
eternally-gratefull said:
Paul always feared he wouod bcome unqualified to teach the gospel, because something he did caused his reputation or light to be tainted,

Thats why he told us to work out our salvation, with fear, because we to are lights, so we should live above reproach.
Paul never feared loss of salvation

According to paul,

to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord

He will be raised

His knowledge of where he would spend eternity is what gave him the ability to see all his hardship as momentary light afflictions

He was given all things, even the seal of the spirit, which three times in three books he said was until the day of redemtion (day of ressurection)

He was justified, he was sanctified and he will be glorified

He was perfected forever by one sacrifice

I can go on and on, again, context and the rest of pauls writing has to be taken into account, proper hermenuetics uses all things (biblical context, historical context, languages, etc etc) and forms an interpretation based on all thse and more.
Click to expand...
PennEd said:
The entire passage in 1 Corinthians 9 Paul is talking about rewards, and prizes, NOT Salvation. Salvation is a GIFT, NOT A PRIZE TO BE WON. He did not want to be disqualified for rewards, crowns, and other good things at the judgement seat of Christ.

We tend to view everything in terms of saved or unsaved.
Obviously those are the most important distinctions, but we forget that there is going to be a judgement for the living (saved Saints) and the dead (unsaved).
Those things are going to become MASSIVELY important in light of eternity.
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,853
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#85,853
GodsGrace101 said:
Right Dcon.

That's why the entire New Testament is chock full of:

IF
HOLD FAST
FALL AWAY
FORSAKE
DENY
CONTINUE IN THE WORD
ENDURE TO THE END
TURN FROM
ABIDE IN
NOT BE WEARY
CUT OFF
LOST
FOUND


Need more?

You really think Paul was worried about losing a crown or not being able to preach when others were also preaching. He NEVER gave himself so much important as you'd suggest.

Read 1 Corinthians Chapter 2.
He cares to know NOTHING...but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
He gave himself no such importance as you suggest.

He was VERY concerned about a person losing faith and becoming lost.
Click to expand...
Sure like

Irrevocable
Eternal
Everlasting
Kept
Never leave
Never forsake
Incorruptible
Sealed
BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES
Held
IN
No condemnation
Justified
Saved

Paul did not teach a losable salvation.....that is your twist that is not found in scripture
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,854
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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#85,854
@PennEd

So, you're NOT going to exegete 1 Corinthians 9 ??
I WONDER WHY?

Maybe because you're wrong about it?
And yet you state your facts as if they were right.

Remember James 3:1
It's important.

God will hold us personally responsible for any soul that was lost due to our contribution.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,855
Dec 12, 2013
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#85,855
DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN said:
If you don't believe me, you will see Roman Catholicism is littered with the word "Saints".
Click to expand...
I could care less....the Roman Catholic church did not invent the Greek language, nor did they inspired the writers of the N.T......and I stand by my post....that is just ignorant
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85,856
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#85,856
GodsGrace101 said:
Gosh.
You don't know what REPROBATE means??


reprobate
/ˈrɛprəbeɪt/
noun

  1. 1.
    an unprincipled person.
    "he had to present himself as more of a lovable reprobate than a spirit of corruption"
    sinonimi:rogue, rascal, scoundrel, good-for-nothing, villain, wretch, unprincipled person, rake, profligate, degenerate, debauchee, libertine; Altro
  2. 2.
    ARCHAIC
    (in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.
adjective

  1. 1.
    unprincipled.
    "reprobate behaviour"
    sinonimi:unprincipled, roguish, bad, wicked, rakish, shameless, immoral, profligate, degenerate, dissipated, debauched, depraved, corrupt; Altro

  2. 2.
    ARCHAIC
    (in Calvinism) predestined to damnation.
verb
ARCHAIC

  1. 1.
    express or feel disapproval of.
    "his neighbours reprobated his method of proceeding"
    sinonimi:criticize, condemn, censure, denounce, express strong disapproval of;
    rarereprehend
    "they reprobated his conduct"

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


Definition of reprobate
(Entry 1 of 3)
transitive verb
1: to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evilreprobating the laxity of the age
2: to foreordain to damnation
3: to refuse to accept : REJECT
Click to expand...
So what..........remember when you said above the language does not matter.......let us ALL guess....it matters if you are trying to prove a false point right......
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,857
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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#85,857
dcontroversal said:
Sure like

Irrevocable
Eternal
Everlasting
Kept
Never leave
Never forsake
Incorruptible
Sealed
BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES
Held
IN
No condemnation
Justified
Saved

Paul did not teach a losable salvation.....that is your twist that is not found in scripture
Click to expand...
Prove it.
Give us a verse.
You list is easily explained.

Care to explain mine?
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,859
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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#85,859
dcontroversal said:
I could care less....the Roman Catholic church did not invent the Greek language, nor did they inspired the writers of the N.T......and I stand by my post....that is just ignorant
Click to expand...
What you just said is ignorant.

@DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN used the word SAINT and, in fact, it IS used mostly in the Catholic church.

Seems to me like some posters on here are AFRAID of the word saint, because we are called to be saints and some don't even think we have to obey God and give me grief about it.

As to the inspiration of the N.T.

I've mentioned this to you before...
The ECFs,,,which you DO NOT respect...
are the SAME PERSONS who put the N.T. together.

They were catholic, BTW,
Anyone who knows Christian History knows that.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
#85,860
Sep 14, 2018
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#85,860
dcontroversal said:
So what..........remember when you said above the language does not matter.......let us ALL guess....it matters if you are trying to prove a false point right......
Click to expand...
Oh my.
GREEK does not matter for our purposes.
When we all get PhDs after our names, we could discuss the Greek.

The descriptions I posted for REPROBATE
are in ENGLISH,,,,I hope you noticed that.
 
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