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Amen, it is most fascinating to me to learn that so many Christians here are already so against divine healing. I can imagine at least twice the uproar if we ever discuss financial prosperity too 
The problem with prosperity is that it is the poor, who are rich in faith. Are we not all commanded to be content with what we have to eat and wear. Not much room for riches after that, in fact, in many verses we see riches treated like this verse in Mk 10:23 "And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!"
You said: Wolf, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say that with enough faith we won't get sick. If anyone did, I didn't see it.
My point was that I was agreeing with your response to wolf and going on from there by adding about sickness:
The Lord therefore uses sickness, even to death; in order to chasten us so that we should not be condemned with the world.
Or take Trophimus, who no doubt was prayed over by the apostle Paul and yet was still left sick in Miletum as Paul continued on to the next town. What this means is that even with the gift of healing in operation, not everyone gets healed or kept from a sickly death.
: )
My point was that I was agreeing with your response to wolf and going on from there by adding about sickness:
The Lord therefore uses sickness, even to death; in order to chasten us so that we should not be condemned with the world.
Or take Trophimus, who no doubt was prayed over by the apostle Paul and yet was still left sick in Miletum as Paul continued on to the next town. What this means is that even with the gift of healing in operation, not everyone gets healed or kept from a sickly death.
: )
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The 'it' is whatever you are trying to do for/unto/with God... Basically like following a recipe to back a cake. If we forget an ingredient, the cake doesn't turn out the way it was intended, no matter how sincere we were.
Unable to receive = asking for something and not getting it.
Sigh... It's not all or nothing. Why would you suggest that a one-time success or failure would somehow guarantee the outcome of every future event? All-or-nothing thinking is a cognitive distortion.
Fortunately in your followup you begin to acknowledge that there are rules involved. It would be wise for me to take those rules, etc into consideration. So my answer at this time is that I'd probably point them toward some elders.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Unable to receive = asking for something and not getting it.
Sigh... It's not all or nothing. Why would you suggest that a one-time success or failure would somehow guarantee the outcome of every future event? All-or-nothing thinking is a cognitive distortion.
Fortunately in your followup you begin to acknowledge that there are rules involved. It would be wise for me to take those rules, etc into consideration. So my answer at this time is that I'd probably point them toward some elders.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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KelbyofGod, post: 3851560, member: 262307"]The 'it' is whatever you are trying to do for/unto/with God... Basically like following a recipe to back a cake. If we forget an ingredient, the cake doesn't turn out the way it was intended, no matter how sincere we were.
Unable to receive = asking for something and not getting it.
Sigh... It's not all or nothing. Why would you suggest that a one-time success or failure would somehow guarantee the outcome of every future event? All-or-nothing thinking is a cognitive distortion.
sounded like you were saying that to me actually
Fortunately in your followup you begin to acknowledge that there are rules involved. It would be wise for me to take those rules, etc into consideration. So my answer at this time is that I'd probably point them toward some elders.
oh so glad I met with your approval
you know, I'll say it again. I don't think you quite get what I am saying. also think that is fine at this point
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Unable to receive = asking for something and not getting it.
Sigh... It's not all or nothing. Why would you suggest that a one-time success or failure would somehow guarantee the outcome of every future event? All-or-nothing thinking is a cognitive distortion.
sounded like you were saying that to me actually
Fortunately in your followup you begin to acknowledge that there are rules involved. It would be wise for me to take those rules, etc into consideration. So my answer at this time is that I'd probably point them toward some elders.
oh so glad I met with your approval
you know, I'll say it again. I don't think you quite get what I am saying. also think that is fine at this point
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Amen, it is most fascinating to me to learn that so many Christians here are already so against divine healing. I can imagine at least twice the uproar if we ever discuss financial prosperity too
I can see why you have trouble with my posts. you miss the intent of what people are saying here
not one person said that they are against healing, so why do you?
rhetorical question
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You done stirred up a hornet"s net with this question. There are some things you shouldn't ask in the doubting believer circles, and this is one of them.
Yes, it does work, but not like most of the ignorant think.
I don't know what version you used, but it is not accurate.
The truth is, it works both fore and against you and others, as the word says, "DEATH AND LIFE is in the power of the tongue..."
Many Christians are their own worst enemy, unwittingly cursing their life and that of family members, speaking of things which are as though they are. Believing the natural is the truth the word of God follows, instead of the reverse.
To the doubters, you are not allowed to be a partaker of God's divine nature through the knowledge of His word.
What is one of the things that sets God's nature apart from ours?
HIS POWER, and that is a BIG no no to many on this forum.
For starters, calling something yours, will not produce anything.
The word of God says, according to your faith, be it done unto you, and to him that has, shall be given.
This isn't like salvation, where you don't have to see the results after confessing Jesus as lord and savior.
If you don't believe you have it, AFTER YOU ASKED OUR FATHER FOR IT, then it will NOT, I repeat NOT work in your favor.
It will be like the seed that fell on rocky ground. It will die when nothing happens immediately, and you will fall away, IF the word of God is not more real and true to you than the natural. Then you will most likely put more confidence in the natural than in God to fulfill His word.
It is not a doctrine of devils like many proclaim, but a doctrine Paul taught. Romans 10:8
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Yes, it does work, but not like most of the ignorant think.
I don't know what version you used, but it is not accurate.
The truth is, it works both fore and against you and others, as the word says, "DEATH AND LIFE is in the power of the tongue..."
Many Christians are their own worst enemy, unwittingly cursing their life and that of family members, speaking of things which are as though they are. Believing the natural is the truth the word of God follows, instead of the reverse.
To the doubters, you are not allowed to be a partaker of God's divine nature through the knowledge of His word.
What is one of the things that sets God's nature apart from ours?
HIS POWER, and that is a BIG no no to many on this forum.
For starters, calling something yours, will not produce anything.
The word of God says, according to your faith, be it done unto you, and to him that has, shall be given.
This isn't like salvation, where you don't have to see the results after confessing Jesus as lord and savior.
If you don't believe you have it, AFTER YOU ASKED OUR FATHER FOR IT, then it will NOT, I repeat NOT work in your favor.
It will be like the seed that fell on rocky ground. It will die when nothing happens immediately, and you will fall away, IF the word of God is not more real and true to you than the natural. Then you will most likely put more confidence in the natural than in God to fulfill His word.
It is not a doctrine of devils like many proclaim, but a doctrine Paul taught. Romans 10:8
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
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this sounds more like spiritual witchcraft than anything else. be careful how you 'cast a spell' because it can come back to bite you'
you have illustrated a major problem with how some people use the Bible as a tool to 'get whatever' and picking verses that have zero to do with the subject at hand
let's look at the context of Romans 10: 8, but in order to do that, we will have to show what is really being said by Paul here and what he actually had in mind.
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of alland richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
here, you have taken an illustration of salvation, which Paul is basing on an understanding they already have concerning Moses, and twisted it to mean 'speaking the right words the right way will get you what you want'
personal note: sadly, I understand more and more why people shy away from certain groups and WOF and often ultra Charasmatic being a couple.
this passage is speaking of confession of faith in Christ...ie salvation
it is most certainly not speaking of blab it and grab it
no hornet's nest was stirred up that has not been thoroughly covered many many times in these forms
I will say again that there is absolute truth regarding our words as per scripture and you have some truth mixed in with what you say, but it is not as you say
I know about words, I know about cursing and I know about life and death in our words but the shameful and harmful thing here is the addition to the meaning of all the words that turn those who actually study the word OFF and discourage those who believe something is written about words, but become confused by all the twisting of those words
try again
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no words. actually people have power also...soul power and power from demons that attach themselves to people who go where they should not go
what actually separates us from God is HIS HOLINESS which we could never partake of without the sacrifice of His Son and the blood shed on the cross
try again
what actually separates us from God is HIS HOLINESS which we could never partake of without the sacrifice of His Son and the blood shed on the cross
try again
As I said, "ONE OF THE THINGS...", NOT, THE THING that separates us from being like God.
God's word/promises IS power, and if that word abides in us, and we send forth said word out our mouths in faith, IT will do the work.
In that sense, we are PARTAKERS of His divine nature.
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these [said promises] ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
The word of God says we are made partakers of His divine nature, BY His word. The same promises you have used to receive salvation, if you did so in faith.
God's word/promises IS power, and if that word abides in us, and we send forth said word out our mouths in faith, IT will do the work.
In that sense, we are PARTAKERS of His divine nature.
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these [said promises] ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
The word of God says we are made partakers of His divine nature, BY His word. The same promises you have used to receive salvation, if you did so in faith.
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I can't agree with you here as it is sin that separates us from God
"But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear. Isaiah 59:2
God's holiness brings us back into a proper relationship with Him, we should long for His holiness and draw near to Him that we might experience just a small taste of what yet is to come.
"Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water." Hebrews 10:19-22
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (NKJV Strong's,) Hebrews 6:4-6
I agree that it is through the blood of Jesus Christ that we can partake in His holiness, as it cleanses us from our unrighteousness.
"But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear. Isaiah 59:2
God's holiness brings us back into a proper relationship with Him, we should long for His holiness and draw near to Him that we might experience just a small taste of what yet is to come.
"Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water." Hebrews 10:19-22
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (NKJV Strong's,) Hebrews 6:4-6
I agree that it is through the blood of Jesus Christ that we can partake in His holiness, as it cleanses us from our unrighteousness.
"The Lord therefore uses sickness, even to death; in order to chasten us so that we should not be condemned with the world"
Under this misunderstanding we see WHY there is so little success in praying for the sick/miracles.
Imagine that falsehood dominating prayer for healing.
You WILL NOT EVER have ANY faith that God will answer.
Total gamble.
Total faith destroyer.
Imagine Jesus with such doublemindedness. Skipping over those that NEEDED sickness. Or better yet USING SICKNESS as a tool to work a work in someones life.
Sickness is a curse.
If it is God's will,then pray for more of it,and NEVER against it.
How can this simple fact get so perverted??????
God....good
Devil.....bad
Curses....bad
Blessing ....good.
" and Jesus went about not healing all who were oppressed with sickness amd disease,and putting sickness on those that were well,because he was about his fathers business"
Wow,just wow
Under this misunderstanding we see WHY there is so little success in praying for the sick/miracles.
Imagine that falsehood dominating prayer for healing.
You WILL NOT EVER have ANY faith that God will answer.
Total gamble.
Total faith destroyer.
Imagine Jesus with such doublemindedness. Skipping over those that NEEDED sickness. Or better yet USING SICKNESS as a tool to work a work in someones life.
Sickness is a curse.
If it is God's will,then pray for more of it,and NEVER against it.
How can this simple fact get so perverted??????
God....good
Devil.....bad
Curses....bad
Blessing ....good.
" and Jesus went about not healing all who were oppressed with sickness amd disease,and putting sickness on those that were well,because he was about his fathers business"
Wow,just wow
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In faith and in accordance with God's will. Faith alone will not bring about what God desires.
"He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” Matthew 26:39
When we speak God's word, we should do so with an understanding that it may cause a response, not necessarily the response we may have thought would happen, but that which God has commissioned it to do.
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11
"He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.” Matthew 26:39
When we speak God's word, we should do so with an understanding that it may cause a response, not necessarily the response we may have thought would happen, but that which God has commissioned it to do.
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11
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