Forgiveness Confusion

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KDW4Him

KDW4Him

Member
#1
Dec 29, 2018
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#1
Has anyone run across this?

A friend was having an issue with her daughter borrowing her car but returning it with something that bugged mom. Trash left in it, missing items, donation clothes missing, etc. One day she finally got so fed up an argument ensued and she told her daughter she couldn't use the car any more.

A few weeks later she was telling a group at Bible study about it as the topic of forgiveness came up. This statement confused me when she said it. "But if I forgive her then I will have to let her drive my car again." Somehow she equated forgiving her daughter with allowing her to drive the car. I said it's possible to forgive her AND have a boundary of not letting her use your car. She gave me that odd deer in the headlights look. A second scenario where someone who was managing a facility did some things he shouldn't have and was demoted and a person was having difficulty forgiving them for what they did. This scenario the guy didn't want to forgive because he thought if he did he would have to allow the person back to manage the facility. He equated forgiveness with giving there guy his job back.

This got me to wonder how many others have confused forgiveness with having to allow someone full access to their life again?

It is possible to forgive with boundaries.
 
Solemateleft

Solemateleft

Honor, Courage, Commitment
#2
Jun 25, 2017
13,805
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#2
Yes - I would absolutely agree with your assessment...

I've had a couple few encounters at work over this past year - surviving a hostile work place (riddled with gross mis-management) - where I have been professionally disrespected by an executive bureaucratic bully, who micro-manages his subordinate supervisors in a manner that forcing them to micro-manage their subordinates... In my case, this scenario resulted in my supervisor two layers up disrespecting me in a manner that led me to recognize that he was completely oblivious to...

Recently, I have found significant vindication and told my immediate supervisor that I would appreciate an apology from both of these men - but that I would settle for a thank you or some acknowledgement by them that my recommendations to resolve our organizations relevance and customer focused productivity was on target all along...

My supervisor simply sad - ya that's never going to happen... Because the personality types of these to individuals assume that by either apologizing or acknowledging that I was in the right - would mean that they were in the wrong - and they simply do not have the capacity to acknowledge being work to their subordinates...

To your point... By merely thanking me and acknowledging the credibility of my approach - they could still save face (short of an apology) and still maintain the boundaries as supervisors-to-employee... But they are incapable of concededing any semblance of fault or wrongdoing...
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#3
Sep 17, 2018
4,058
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#3
It seems many think forgiveness = letting people off the hook. Some even insist that if you put up boundaries it's not forgiveness at all. That forgiveness nearly requires forgetting.
I have long said forgiveness shouldn't suspend common sense. You can choose to not hold something against someone yet use wisdom to not invite them to continue their behavior.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
#4
#4
Forgiveness means not returning evil for evil. And to live in peace with everyone as much as it depends on you.

In my opinion, living in peace means avoiding situations and people that cause you stress.

Only God alone can truly forgive someone. He does not hold grudges, or remembers our sins. He forgives us over and over, and put up with our bad behavior.

We humans are not perfect, so we can't forgive perfectly all the time, the way God does.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#5
Jun 30, 2015
25,424
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#5
Even God doesn't necessarily free us from all consequences. Trust must be rebuilt; it isn't automatic with forgiveness, and forgiveness is not synonymous with restoration.
 
Dan58

Dan58

Senior Member
#6
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
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#6
Forgiving someone doesn't absolve them of the consequences of their offense, e.g; If I steal your car, you might forgive me, but I still go to jail for theft. Forgiveness is not absolution.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#7
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#7
The OP raises a point about forgiveness and how it runs counter to our built-in psyches. It does take real faith to completely let God handle things His way, but it is not optional. In fact, it could hinder our prayer life and cost us any and all deliverance from God. Jesus said: Mark 11:25 "And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." Hate only hurts the hater.

The way of Christianity is not seeking your own will but the will of God. It has built-in chances for abuse. If we are really obeying God, we can be taken advantage of. It will happen and we must let it go for God should be keeping track, not us. Try to stop short of being doormats if possible, that just enables the users. But still, it is God the sets the boundaries and it doesn't have to be to our liking. Look at it like this, they are taking advantage of God not you. :cool:
 
G

gramps

New member
#8
Feb 11, 2019
1
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#8
Dan58 said:
Forgiving someone doesn't absolve them of the consequences of their offense, e.g; If I steal your car, you might forgive me, but I still go to jail for theft. Forgiveness is not absolution.
Click to expand...
you are right on the mark. for each instance there is a consequence. to forgive is our purpose but they still must pay for what they did.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#9
Jul 3, 2015
60,030
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#9
The mom waited too long to speak up and over reacted. Completely suspending car privileges forever is excessive when the problem was not the car but the daughter's behaviors of helping herself to items in the car that were not hers, and also not cleaning up after herself. Mom can forgive this and daughter needs to stop the objectionable behaviors. Then car privileges could be restored :)
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#10
#10
One of the key components of forgiveness is to forgo the idea of retribution, repayment, or punishment.
When we can honestly say that we have no desire for them to suffer any loss or that we deserve any reward or payment for what we lost due to the offence then we can say we have forgiven fully. It's not necessary to allow a toxic person to continue to abuse you.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#12
Aug 2, 2009
24,644
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#12
This is
KDW4Him said:
Has anyone run across this?

A friend was having an issue with her daughter borrowing her car but returning it with something that bugged mom. Trash left in it, missing items, donation clothes missing, etc. One day she finally got so fed up an argument ensued and she told her daughter she couldn't use the car any more.

A few weeks later she was telling a group at Bible study about it as the topic of forgiveness came up. This statement confused me when she said it. "But if I forgive her then I will have to let her drive my car again." Somehow she equated forgiving her daughter with allowing her to drive the car. I said it's possible to forgive her AND have a boundary of not letting her use your car. She gave me that odd deer in the headlights look. A second scenario where someone who was managing a facility did some things he shouldn't have and was demoted and a person was having difficulty forgiving them for what they did. This scenario the guy didn't want to forgive because he thought if he did he would have to allow the person back to manage the facility. He equated forgiveness with giving there guy his job back.

This got me to wonder how many others have confused forgiveness with having to allow someone full access to their life again?

It is possible to forgive with boundaries.
Click to expand...
this is how I understand forgiveness in this situation...

1. She forgives her daughter in her heart. She doesn't hold a grudge against her and doesn't long for revenge (I hope not lol) or hate her. She understands that her daughter is not perfect, so she shouldn't expect her to be perfect in everything she does.

2. The "punishment" of not letting her use the car is an act of disciplining her child. If a child does something they know is bad and doesn't have a good reason for it, they need to be taught not to do it again. Some kids might only need to be told, but sometimes disciplining them is the only way to teach them (if nothing else works).
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#14
Dec 17, 2017
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#14
zeroturbulence said:
This is

this is how I understand forgiveness in this situation...

1. She forgives her daughter in her heart. She doesn't hold a grudge against her and doesn't long for revenge (I hope not lol) or hate her. She understands that her daughter is not perfect, so she shouldn't expect her to be perfect in everything she does.

2. The "punishment" of not letting her use the car is an act of disciplining her child. If a child does something they know is bad and doesn't have a good reason for it, they need to be taught not to do it again. Some kids might only need to be told, but sometimes disciplining them is the only way to teach them (if nothing else works).
Click to expand...
This is so true zero, I raised two mixed families plus somewhere around 18-20 foster kids. What might work with one has no effect on another. You just need to be smarter than your kids. In that, you need to find the punishment that is most effective for each child. Like some are impervious to pain but are very material. Just to take away something the material child loves is effective. No two children are alike but you can find solutions to cope with them. :);):rolleyes:(y)
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#15
Feb 15, 2017
9,023
4,444
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#15
KDW4Him said:
Has anyone run across this?

A friend was having an issue with her daughter borrowing her car but returning it with something that bugged mom. Trash left in it, missing items, donation clothes missing, etc. One day she finally got so fed up an argument ensued and she told her daughter she couldn't use the car any more.

A few weeks later she was telling a group at Bible study about it as the topic of forgiveness came up. This statement confused me when she said it. "But if I forgive her then I will have to let her drive my car again." Somehow she equated forgiving her daughter with allowing her to drive the car. I said it's possible to forgive her AND have a boundary of not letting her use your car. She gave me that odd deer in the headlights look. A second scenario where someone who was managing a facility did some things he shouldn't have and was demoted and a person was having difficulty forgiving them for what they did. This scenario the guy didn't want to forgive because he thought if he did he would have to allow the person back to manage the facility. He equated forgiveness with giving there guy his job back.

This got me to wonder how many others have confused forgiveness with having to allow someone full access to their life again?

It is possible to forgive with boundaries.
Click to expand...
Yes it is.

In fact at times it is necessary.

I think I read above somewhere that forgiving let's the person of the hook.

In fact I would say we forgive to get us of the hook.

I spent some time today with a hurt broken guy.
We talked about forgiveness.
I felt his understanding was incorrect as to its meaning.
So I gave my thoughts.

I love the following quote by Lewis Smydes.

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free, only to realise the prisoner was you"

I may sound a bit dramatic here given the scenario in the OP.

But forgiveness and unforgiveness is often misunderstood, and on both sides of the equation it can and does have consequences.
 
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