Not By Works

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

Who conciders them a heretic, i think people have differing views of what makes a person a heretic.

God is our judge. If God determines someone dies a heretic, do they forfeit heaven?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is our judge. If God determines someone dies a heretic, do they forfeit heaven?

The bible says that those who die in unbelief will not get to heaven

It does not say a person who does not believe in the correct age of the earth will not get to heaven. Yet people claim that would be heresy

 

[dcontroversal]

Just like a new born baby... They do not love us mothers when first born , they only need us , to feed them , love them and take care of them , then as they grow , they come to know that we are trustworthy , and when we get that first hug from them , a mother truly knows that their child is giving love back for the first time ...xox...

AMEN ROSE....you get it........

 

[PennEd]

So only have half a bible if that is what you want.
I don't mean this unkindly, but you typify the problem here. You got a question answered that none of you osas people could answer, and an answer that stops scripture being in contradiction of itself, and you are not interested. The only thing that matters is keeping the beliefs you had before you came on the site no matter what, doesn't even matter if you have to ignore huge chunks of scripture to do it. Lets be honest, people just enjoy coming here to debate/argue, its what stimulates them greatly, so that is why they do it. And then some(I do not mean you here) just come to try and show off what they think they know. Which all goes to show these sites cannot by and large be taken too seriously can they. In truth, for many they are damaging to their spiritual wellbeing. And to be truly honest, the average pew sitter, who has not read the bible as much as the average internet debater understands far more of what really matters in the faith

You don't know me. You don't know my past, or my testimony and how I arrived, after immense struggle, with the revelation of the surety that I am His forever upon being born again HIS.

I'm not going to recount all of that now. Very excited to leave now for our Wednesday night Bible study on Romans 12.

But I'll just say this. I WAS at the place you are at now. Yes. I definitely believed I could do something to lose the Salvation the Lord has given me. It took more than a decade of wandering in a Spiritual desert before THE LORD drew me back home. Incredibly painful time. But INCREDIBLE to see Romans 8:28 in full action looking back now.

Please do yourself a favor. Go back. Read the passages I posted. Have an open mid about it, and ask the Lord about them. Have a blessed night.

 

[Historyanswers]

Some people define sin as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Sin is basically defined as missing the mark.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

how did you get out of the gospel about jesus, did you think the new testament was written in three days, who had to die for you to define what a sin is, from a stolen book , first pray to god and thank jesus for the bible , so that you can condemn every one, that walks in to your church. using a human understanding to how you thinks defines a sin, yet cannot understand why jesus was condemned in the first place, humans put him on the cross, because of words and there meanings , that define only god has this authority.to define a sin, i took my lamb to the temple of stone , for the forgiveness of my sin. why did they take there lamb to the temple, is it self condemnation, or the teachers of the law that made them, he gave the jewish converts confess your sin by voice, if you think everyone is to stays in this dogma for the rest of there living year in a condemned state, why did jesus die for a believer, so that you can read from a book you call the bible. to stay in a condemned state.(romans 5)





10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.

Ephesians 6:10-18 New International Version (NIV)
The Armor of God

 

[dcontroversal]

When I got saved , I came to Christ thirsting , I was truly hungry for His word ...Only through reading after about a year I could say " I love You Lord "...I already had Gods love poured in my new heart , now I was learning the love of God , and He was removing from me the false love of the world , it takes time to get our minds renewed , and when we can lift our eyes up to God with love in our hearts for Him , our love grows deeper and deeper , it is a process...xox...

Again Rose scores.....same here.....it took years of study and application before I could honestly say that I loved the truth....I had affection for it, wanted to know it and was studying it upwards of 65 hours a week.....but it took years before I could say that I loved it....it was a process of growth and maturity

 

[VCO]

The lengths some people will go to on the internet to avoid accepting scripture that contradicts their doctrine never ceases to amaze me

Only you are the one who refuses to believe, that GOD SAID NONE OF THEM WERE OF US.

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

The bible says that those who die in unbelief will not get to heaven

It does not say a person who does not believe in the correct age of the earth will not get to heaven. Yet people claim that would be heresy

A person who dies a heretic is in unbelief.

 

[dcontroversal]

So if once a person is saved by grace, through faith in Jesus, they do nothing but what they want to do? So we can sit around play video games, go to concerts, make a comfortable lifestyle for ourselves. No worries, No works for God at all?

If so, how do you explain James 1:27 "
Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to visit the orphans and widows in their afflictions and to keep oneself unstained from the world."

If, visiting the orphans and widows is not works (deeds, actions) what is it?

And how does one explain
James 2:14-26 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?


If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


But someone will say, "you have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness" --and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by the works and not by faith alone.: (ESV)

Or are we just ignoring that scripture because it don't fit our own theological system?

James then goes on and gives examples.

I just heard a sermon about this (to those who like to jump to conclusions around here, it was a Baptist Church).

He said, "True faith always leads to works. Because works are the fruit of a sincere faith. Works do not save you, but the faith that does saves you, always produces works."

He goes on to clarify, that the works that he is talking about are the works defined by James, that are acts of obedience
which included acts of service which involve deeds and action of meeting the needs of people around us who are struggling,
James 2:15; to take care of the widows and orphans, James 1:27; and to actively love people ourselves, James 2:8.

"Works are actions of obedience that include demonstrating in acts of love, mercy and grace to the world that is around us.

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Hear that question that James is explicitly asking and will explicitly answer.

If someone is trying to argue that they have faith alone that has not produced any works, can that faith save him? Is their faith real? Do they have true, sincere faith? Are they saved? Now lets see his explicit answer.

If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (James 2:15-16)

So faith by itself, if it does not have works, IS DEAD." (James 2:17)

James goes on to say that "you believe that God is one; you do well, even the demons believe in that and they shudder. Do you want to be shown that faith apart from works is dead? Then he gives the examples of Abraham and Rahab.

James 2:26 FOR AS THE BODY APART FROM THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO IS FAITH APART FROM WORKS IS DEAD.

Don't forget when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats. I only takes those who have done works of love, the ones that feed the hungry, that clothed the naked, that gave drink the thirsty, opened their open to strangers.

Mat 25:32-46 Before Him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He takes the people who did works, who feed the hungry, who gave drink to the thirsty, who welcomes the strangers, who visited the sick and those in prison.

And the ones who did not do these works goes to eternal punishment.

Pretty clear who is saved and who is not here in Mat 25.

Who are you talking to....nobody here believes that or has said such a thing...............and maybe pay attention the the actual purpose of the thread........geesh

 

[Argueless]

You are so kind and merciful to me.
Thank you so much, which points to Him. I am so grateful. Thanks for looking through generous eyes, truly.

God is so good!!!

Listening to Penn's video while I write this, I just heard the only thing worse than works based salvation, is someone with one foot in and one foot out. Hahaha and Eeks...:0!!! Thanks be to God though, He knows us and understands who He is dealing with and how to get us where we need to be, standing in HIS victory, by staying at HIS feet.

I am far from harmonizing the entirety of the word, but praise be to Him, I know it is Him who will reveal Himself, in due time, not because of striving, though. Brother, I am so excited, though, to getting more understanding/clarity. It is challenging not getting frustrated. There is so much to learn. However what a beautiful blessing it is that He puts a thirst and hunger for Himself in our hearts and minds.

The works based salvation is about our sufficiency, which is ludicrous because our sufficiency is only by His grace abounding, period!!!! This is all apart of the dying to self and humility, but I didn't see that. Whoa!!!

Galatians 5:1 says so much!!!

Lord, I am so sorry, it is all about You my Lord, You and Your Kingdom!!!

I am currently doing a torah study and learning the old testament, but I need to keep my eye on Yeshua/Jesus and His saving grace throughout it. Ok well enough me me me, dang that is irritating. Sorry, peeps, it gets on my nerves too. Hahaha. Dangit, did it again, meeee meee meee. Switching it up here, You all are annoying too though, sometimes, lol, and I put up with you, hahaha. Jk, hope u see the humor.

Lord, bless this site and this thread, help us all to remember it, every single thing, comes back to You and Your dominion, Your Love, Your Grace, Your victory, Your work, Your sufficiency, NOT ours.

Amen.

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, WHAT GOOD THING MUST I DO TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “WHAT DO I STILL LACK?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be PERFECT, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH GOD all things are possible.”

Was Jesus teaching "WORKS SALVATION" here? If YES, then is He a "WORKS SALVATIONIST"?

If NOT, was He teaching about OSAS?

Did He say to the man asking Him how to get eternal life that FAITH ALONE can save him and ONCE SAVED, he is ALWAYS SAVED?

Why did Jesus not question the man wether he has FAITH or none?

If FAITH comes from hearing the message (romans 10:17). did Jesus know that he has FAITH by his declaration of obedience to God's commandments?

Just some points to ponder in your search for the truth for now.

God bless.

 

[Magenta]

Really? Under the new covenant the Holy Spirit will dwell in the unsaved? Scripture please
In my bible it says the Holy Spirit is your seal of approval before God

I said no such thing. Your comprehension suffers.

 

[dcontroversal]

More slander!!

Why dont you answer my question buddy??? Instead of talking to me like im a DOG

He made my ignore list when he could not help but lie about what I said yesterday.......embellishes the words of other people to make his invalid point.......

garden variety embellishment that is.....<---we all know who done this

 

[GodsGrace101]

So only have half a bible if that is what you want.
I don't mean this unkindly, but you typify the problem here. You got a question answered that none of you osas people could answer, and an answer that stops scripture being in contradiction of itself, and you are not interested. The only thing that matters is keeping the beliefs you had before you came on the site no matter what, doesn't even matter if you have to ignore huge chunks of scripture to do it. Lets be honest, people just enjoy coming here to debate/argue, its what stimulates them greatly, so that is why they do it. And then some(I do not mean you here) just come to try and show off what they think they know. Which all goes to show these sites cannot by and large be taken too seriously can they. In truth, for many they are damaging to their spiritual wellbeing. And to be truly honest, the average pew sitter, who has not read the bible as much as the average internet debater understands far more of what really matters in the faith

I know persons that have never read the bible and are more humble and in keeping with the Sermon on the Mount than some on these sites.

I came here for fellowship because of where I live...
This is what I find...very sad indeed.
Jesus didn't have to preach for over 3 years.
All those letters didn't have to be written...
All the Apostles and those that came after them had to do was to say
Believe in Jesus with your knowledge (mind) and then you'll be saved and that's all you have to do.

Simple.
There must be a REASON why the gate is narrow and why not many find it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A person who dies a heretic is in unbelief.

So i have to believe and get every possible doctrine correct?

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

So i have to believe and get every possible doctrine correct?

Why would you think you have to get every possible doctrine correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would you think you have to get every possible doctrine correct?

Because thats what people call heresy, getting a doctrine wrong.

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

Because thats what people call heresy, getting a doctrine wrong.

Why were you thinking they need to get every possible doctrine correct?

 

[Magenta]

A person who dies a heretic is in unbelief.

A heretic according to whom?

 

[Historyanswers]

Some people define sin as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Sin is basically defined as missing the mark.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

so is reading a stolen book, and not understanding do not steal

 

[dcontroversal]

But what about people who are so disabled , cannot talk but only communicate by blinking , these are people who cannot work , what about people who got up in the morning , excepted Jesus as their Savior , yet died within the next 5 mins of their life and produced no works , are these not saved because they had no works , or are they saved because they gave their life to Christ ?...xox...

The thief on the cross being killed for thievery and murder....one of Barabbas' cohorts........insurrectionist.......no church membership, no works, no immersion------->just honest faith.....

Lord remember in your kingdom
We get what we deserve
This man is innocent