Not By Works
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I believe when god saved me he saved me knowing every sin i have commited, am commiting, and will commit, he as he said, took me as i am. And what he knew i would be.
As paul said, god took what was against me, what was contrary to me, and nailed it to the cross. I am now free to look to him always, not as a spirit to fear, but a loving father who loves me and wants me to seek after him, and learn his ways, and how to be like him, and not worry about his judgment or punsihment for those times i forget who i am and serve self (sin)
As a babe in christ, it is impossible to know every possible sin i have commited, or even are commiting, i do not even really have the capacity to know what sin is, i just know i am a sinner, and as per the law have not met gods standard, even a child can not know every sin, teens are still in the learning stage, it would be impossible to know ever sin, let alone try to keep a living tab of each sin you commit so you could (if possible) even repent or ask for forgiveness of them,
I used to live on fear, so busy trying to keep tabs on what sin i committed on each day so I could ask forgiveness, i spent so much time worrying about it, i never learned to just trust god, and in The meantime, missed so many opportunities to serve god by loving others, until one day, someone said something and a light bulb in my head lit up, stop trying to worry about every sin, instead seek after the things of the spirit, and follow the law of love and you will not seek after things of the flesh, god will bring your sin issues to mind, confess them to him, thank him for forging you, and ask for guidance on how to not fall into temptation next time, and also, confess those sins to a discipler so they can help you heal and hold you accountable (ie, live an open life) it was so freeing and so powerful, i not only started serving and loving God more, i was freed from sin issues i struggled all my life with but could never find victory, because i was trying to overcome them by law, not grace.
As paul said, god took what was against me, what was contrary to me, and nailed it to the cross. I am now free to look to him always, not as a spirit to fear, but a loving father who loves me and wants me to seek after him, and learn his ways, and how to be like him, and not worry about his judgment or punsihment for those times i forget who i am and serve self (sin)
As a babe in christ, it is impossible to know every possible sin i have commited, or even are commiting, i do not even really have the capacity to know what sin is, i just know i am a sinner, and as per the law have not met gods standard, even a child can not know every sin, teens are still in the learning stage, it would be impossible to know ever sin, let alone try to keep a living tab of each sin you commit so you could (if possible) even repent or ask for forgiveness of them,
I used to live on fear, so busy trying to keep tabs on what sin i committed on each day so I could ask forgiveness, i spent so much time worrying about it, i never learned to just trust god, and in The meantime, missed so many opportunities to serve god by loving others, until one day, someone said something and a light bulb in my head lit up, stop trying to worry about every sin, instead seek after the things of the spirit, and follow the law of love and you will not seek after things of the flesh, god will bring your sin issues to mind, confess them to him, thank him for forging you, and ask for guidance on how to not fall into temptation next time, and also, confess those sins to a discipler so they can help you heal and hold you accountable (ie, live an open life) it was so freeing and so powerful, i not only started serving and loving God more, i was freed from sin issues i struggled all my life with but could never find victory, because i was trying to overcome them by law, not grace.
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Yes I mean all of the sins you just listed and any other ones you forgot
When you as a Christian realize you have sinned, you will want to repent of it
Does the bible not say if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us?
You may not be saved I don't know that's between you and God but you can walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh
God kick Pride Out of Heaven at 220,000,000 mph and we are all fools if we think he will let it back in
As far as lust, Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery in his heart
So yes all of these must be repented of
When you as a Christian realize you have sinned, you will want to repent of it
Does the bible not say if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us?
You may not be saved I don't know that's between you and God but you can walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh
God kick Pride Out of Heaven at 220,000,000 mph and we are all fools if we think he will let it back in
As far as lust, Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery in his heart
So yes all of these must be repented of
You talk of God bringing your sin issues to mind and you confessing them and thanking him etc....
That's exactly what I believe ( can you believe we agree on something. Lol)
Im not walking around afraid of losing my salvation because I know that God promised me if I confess my sin he is faithful and just to forgive me
Are we in agreement on something or have I missed something LOL
That's exactly what I believe ( can you believe we agree on something. Lol)
Im not walking around afraid of losing my salvation because I know that God promised me if I confess my sin he is faithful and just to forgive me
Are we in agreement on something or have I missed something LOL
Opps I guess I should have read this before I said we agreed on something LOL
can we find something we agree on? Do you like to eat Bologna sandwichs?
I don't feel like im depending Upon My Own Strength to save me when im confessing my sin especially when I am merely doing what God asked me to do?
can we find something we agree on? Do you like to eat Bologna sandwichs?
I don't feel like im depending Upon My Own Strength to save me when im confessing my sin especially when I am merely doing what God asked me to do?
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Isn't it wonderful that this is an open forum and I could come and go as I please?
And that I could click on disagree every now and then, as has been done to me many, many times here on the thread.
But I don't care...it's more important to get the truth out than to be popular.
And I do have a couple of scriptures for you.... But I doubt you've read them or will read them.
Mathew 7:1-5 Jesus said:
1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. "
John 13:35 Jesus said:
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
And that I could click on disagree every now and then, as has been done to me many, many times here on the thread.
But I don't care...it's more important to get the truth out than to be popular.
And I do have a couple of scriptures for you.... But I doubt you've read them or will read them.
Mathew 7:1-5 Jesus said:
1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. "
John 13:35 Jesus said:
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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I believe God would continue to convict me giving me space to repent
Eventually I would end up like The Prodigal Son, who had to get sick of sin or where he was....the Bible says he came to himself and remembered father's house
BTW I love the story of The Prodigal Son because it was my story
Do you think the Prodigal Son was trying to earn his way or work his way back to the father by leaving the Hog Pen?
Eventually I would end up like The Prodigal Son, who had to get sick of sin or where he was....the Bible says he came to himself and remembered father's house
BTW I love the story of The Prodigal Son because it was my story
Do you think the Prodigal Son was trying to earn his way or work his way back to the father by leaving the Hog Pen?
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I like to fry my bologna, or eat on buttered toast!
As far as the rest, God told the jews to be circumcised, jesus did not tell them they could stop, or that it was no longer needed, yet paul got on the jews who tried to add that work to the gospel, it was not that doing what god asked them to do was wrong, it was that they were basing their salvation on doing that work,
Its no different, if you are just confessing your sins, thats fine, god did ask us to do that, but if your doing it to try to maintain your salvation, then your adding to the gospel
Baptism is another issue many will say is required, and they too do not think they are teying to save themselves, they are just doing what god said to do, but they are doing it for reasone god did not say to do, they are trying to earn their salvation by that work.
As paul said to the galations, are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh (by your deeds)
As far as the rest, God told the jews to be circumcised, jesus did not tell them they could stop, or that it was no longer needed, yet paul got on the jews who tried to add that work to the gospel, it was not that doing what god asked them to do was wrong, it was that they were basing their salvation on doing that work,
Its no different, if you are just confessing your sins, thats fine, god did ask us to do that, but if your doing it to try to maintain your salvation, then your adding to the gospel
Baptism is another issue many will say is required, and they too do not think they are teying to save themselves, they are just doing what god said to do, but they are doing it for reasone god did not say to do, they are trying to earn their salvation by that work.
As paul said to the galations, are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh (by your deeds)
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I understand, it is what I have been struggling with, more than I could bear. I am not there yet but Luke 7: 34-50, has brought so much perspective and comfort, big time, that and maybe once and for all I can finally take myself off the cross, and truly give Him ALL my shackles, bondage and burdens.
Sniff sniff, thank You Jesus, soooooo MUCH!!!
Sniff sniff, thank You Jesus, soooooo MUCH!!!
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I have constantly asked a question on this thread. How can a believer lose their salvation due to sin, if they have no righteousness of not committing sin. It seems only fair to me to answer it. Sorry if it’s a bit long, but I have to properly explain it
You and I would agree, the believers righteousness is faith in Christ. That is our justification/righteousness before the Father, and what stands between us and hell/eternal damnation.
A person can get saved when they are dead in transgression/sin(Eph2:5) All they have to do is repent, ask Christ into their lives as Lord and saviour and they are saved. They then set out on the Christian path. Their sin is irrelevant as long as they stay on the true path. The sanctification process begins and God will deal with issues in each of our lives according to the importance of what needs to be dealt with naturally. And as long as we are looking to Christ, and seeking to live an evermore holy life in him we have peace, despite the imperfections in our flesh. Think of a traffic light, the light is green, everything is fine.
But the Christian can step outside of that path, they can stop following after the Holy Spirit in the truth of the Gospel message:
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal5:16-21
Paul has to be writing to believers here for he tells them if they are led by the Spirit they are not under law. Only believers can be led by the Spirit.
So in practical terms, what happens if you step outside of the true path you should be on and follow after the flesh, what are the implications of that? I always use this example. A convert meets a pretty woman, he sleeps with her. He has now followed after the flesh not the Spirit. Can he now say ‘’Everythings fine, I am a work in progress, Jesus died for my sins, I’m ok.’’ Of course he cannot, no born again Christian could do that. He will be struck with remorse, and his faith has suffered. He repents of his folly, not because he fears hell if he does not, but because he regrets what he has done and wants his peace back. and hopefully he gets straight back on the path he should be on. But what if he does not? What if he sleeps with the woman again? Easier to do the second time. What results? His faith suffers, and sin starts to take a hold of him in this area of his life. He continues on in such sin. He can no longer look to Jesus and in his heart trust he is saved because Jesus died for him can he, that is not how it works. He is no longer following after the Spirit in the truth of the message on the correct path but has pandered to the flesh. What is the result? His faith suffers, it becomes weaker and weaker as the flesh becomes stronger and stronger. In the end, due to living a sinfull lifestyle for long enough, he has no faith left. He can no longer trust Christ is his righteousness before the Father. Head assertion does not count, heartfelt belief has gone. He no longer has his justification in the Father’s sight. He is now in an unsaved state.
Now who would be most likely to go down this path? A person who made a commitment without counting the cost of discipleship(Luke ch14) someone who only made a shallow commitment(the second example in the parable of the sower) Someone who was willing to make a full commitment would not err to such a degree. So because a shallow commitment was made, the man gets pulled away to a lifestyle of sin, because that happens he ends up losing the only righteousness he can have: Faith in Christ. His sin we can say caused him to lose his salvation for it robbed him of his righteousness before God, faith in Christ
Have we biblical verses to back this up? Yes:
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel Col 1:22&23
‘But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.’[h]
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:38&39
Both of those statements could not be written as they are if you cannot lose your faith as a believer
Concerning your 101 verses. The bible is a big book, and different things are written to different people. When the rich young ruler asked Christ what he must do to inherit eternal life, why did Jesus not respond with John3:16? Because he knew the young man before he spoke to him. Different words for different situations/people. Your 101 verses are written for those who are willing to make a full commitment to Christ, they have counted the cost, it was not a shallow commitment, the verses I am giving you are for people who have not done so.
Your choice what you believe. But as I keep repeating. Hold to one hard and fast rule for all and you will end up with a belief that contradicts part of the scriptures.
Anyway, hope I have explained now how there is no conflict between a person having righteousness apart from committing sin, but how sin can still cause them to lose that righteousness
You and I would agree, the believers righteousness is faith in Christ. That is our justification/righteousness before the Father, and what stands between us and hell/eternal damnation.
A person can get saved when they are dead in transgression/sin(Eph2:5) All they have to do is repent, ask Christ into their lives as Lord and saviour and they are saved. They then set out on the Christian path. Their sin is irrelevant as long as they stay on the true path. The sanctification process begins and God will deal with issues in each of our lives according to the importance of what needs to be dealt with naturally. And as long as we are looking to Christ, and seeking to live an evermore holy life in him we have peace, despite the imperfections in our flesh. Think of a traffic light, the light is green, everything is fine.
But the Christian can step outside of that path, they can stop following after the Holy Spirit in the truth of the Gospel message:
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal5:16-21
Paul has to be writing to believers here for he tells them if they are led by the Spirit they are not under law. Only believers can be led by the Spirit.
So in practical terms, what happens if you step outside of the true path you should be on and follow after the flesh, what are the implications of that? I always use this example. A convert meets a pretty woman, he sleeps with her. He has now followed after the flesh not the Spirit. Can he now say ‘’Everythings fine, I am a work in progress, Jesus died for my sins, I’m ok.’’ Of course he cannot, no born again Christian could do that. He will be struck with remorse, and his faith has suffered. He repents of his folly, not because he fears hell if he does not, but because he regrets what he has done and wants his peace back. and hopefully he gets straight back on the path he should be on. But what if he does not? What if he sleeps with the woman again? Easier to do the second time. What results? His faith suffers, and sin starts to take a hold of him in this area of his life. He continues on in such sin. He can no longer look to Jesus and in his heart trust he is saved because Jesus died for him can he, that is not how it works. He is no longer following after the Spirit in the truth of the message on the correct path but has pandered to the flesh. What is the result? His faith suffers, it becomes weaker and weaker as the flesh becomes stronger and stronger. In the end, due to living a sinfull lifestyle for long enough, he has no faith left. He can no longer trust Christ is his righteousness before the Father. Head assertion does not count, heartfelt belief has gone. He no longer has his justification in the Father’s sight. He is now in an unsaved state.
Now who would be most likely to go down this path? A person who made a commitment without counting the cost of discipleship(Luke ch14) someone who only made a shallow commitment(the second example in the parable of the sower) Someone who was willing to make a full commitment would not err to such a degree. So because a shallow commitment was made, the man gets pulled away to a lifestyle of sin, because that happens he ends up losing the only righteousness he can have: Faith in Christ. His sin we can say caused him to lose his salvation for it robbed him of his righteousness before God, faith in Christ
Have we biblical verses to back this up? Yes:
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel Col 1:22&23
‘But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.’[h]
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:38&39
Both of those statements could not be written as they are if you cannot lose your faith as a believer
Concerning your 101 verses. The bible is a big book, and different things are written to different people. When the rich young ruler asked Christ what he must do to inherit eternal life, why did Jesus not respond with John3:16? Because he knew the young man before he spoke to him. Different words for different situations/people. Your 101 verses are written for those who are willing to make a full commitment to Christ, they have counted the cost, it was not a shallow commitment, the verses I am giving you are for people who have not done so.
Your choice what you believe. But as I keep repeating. Hold to one hard and fast rule for all and you will end up with a belief that contradicts part of the scriptures.
Anyway, hope I have explained now how there is no conflict between a person having righteousness apart from committing sin, but how sin can still cause them to lose that righteousness
I've grown up around pentecostals and hang around that circle, STILL DO.
But me PERSONALLY im reformed, so you should care for it.
If you go back and read my first posts here I argued against that view tooth and nail!
I dont believe catholicism is misunderstood. Who leads the ecumenical movement? The POPE! Who holds up a HINDU FALSE GOD IDOL IN HIS HAND with a hindu priest next to him smiling like the deceiver he is? THE POPE!
They have gone soft since 2nd Vatican council! But even before that you had indulgences, praying to saints and all that junk to deal with!
But me PERSONALLY im reformed, so you should care for it.
If you go back and read my first posts here I argued against that view tooth and nail!I dont believe catholicism is misunderstood. Who leads the ecumenical movement? The POPE! Who holds up a HINDU FALSE GOD IDOL IN HIS HAND with a hindu priest next to him smiling like the deceiver he is? THE POPE!
They have gone soft since 2nd Vatican council! But even before that you had indulgences, praying to saints and all that junk to deal with!