You stated healing is only temporary till they die.This is the result if you try to compare what you cant compare
I took your concept to another example.
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I took your concept to another example.
Our body is for to die! Some will expierience that their body, sick ore health will transformed when Jesus returns.
All others have to die. And for the most of ja our death is Coming through a diseases ore dysfunktion of our Organs. This is fact.
If you are talking that everybody can remain in health condition Till he dies. And if not it is their own unbelieve.
Then such a Person is in my Eyes a liar which makes promisses in the Name of God, which He never has given.
You are the one, who claimes that everybody can live in healthcondition till he dies. Without proof this with a word of God.
Hi Wolfwint,
I agree that Absolute may have taken the concept beyond what is directly stated. (I'll pray about it) And on the flip side, I see no commandment or requirement by God that we have to be sick... or should simply accept sickness rather than combat it with faith. Do you know of a verse requiring us to be sick?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
[QUOTE="wolfwint, post: 3847381, member: 1
If his main goal was to heal. The result was very temporary.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is only a reprieve. A sick young man asked a doctor once, "Doctor, doctor, will I die?" and he responded, "Yes, my son and so will I."
If his main goal was to heal. The result was very temporary.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is only a reprieve. A sick young man asked a doctor once, "Doctor, doctor, will I die?" and he responded, "Yes, my son and so will I."
Depends on the motives. Jesus effectively "claimed" a fish to have a mouth full of money (yes, I know it may not have been "full") and it came to pass.
Once I looked in at my nearly empty refrigerator and said "God, You've always kept us fed no matter how much money we've had, and I'm not complaining now, but is this really how you want your childrens' refrigerators to look?" It was an honest question.
Without mentioning that to anyone, someone showed up the next day and gave us 2 bags of groceries which filled out our refrigerator quite nicely. Then I thankfully and joyously replied to God "I didn't think so."
Love in Jesus
Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.Mathew 21:18-21
There is power in the life of the tongue of God. He could literally tell the mountain to be cast in the sea. But that portion of scripture was used to help the believing Jew to prepare for his death, time was nearing . There would be great tribulation for a Jew as like never before or ever again. Especially the unbelieving Jew (no faith in God) who rather followed after the oral traditions of the fathers and kings as traditions of men making the word of God without effect. They must of felt naked .
The time of reformation had come. Christ was cutting off the use of a outward fleshly representative as king in respect to the flesh of a Jew. A improper order for walking by faith that came about because the faithless Jews wanted a fleshly representative as a king because of their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nations.
How soon is the fig tree withered away! It set up the tossing out of the old covenant system as the mountain representing a kingdom Judging it as not worthy by casting it into the sea. God had gave the faithless Jews over to do that which they should not of. God used that period of time as a parable . The veil remain rent.
Acts 2:15-16 King James Version (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
The government was restored to the times of Judges when men and woman prophets judged the world walking by faith . The order that was promised by Joel . That God would pour out His unseen spirit on all flesh the flesh of every nation No longer male and female, Jew and gentile . The divided the wall came tumbling down at the renting of the veil.
There is power in the life of the tongue of God. He could literally tell the mountain to be cast in the sea. But that portion of scripture was used to help the believing Jew to prepare for his death, time was nearing . There would be great tribulation for a Jew as like never before or ever again. Especially the unbelieving Jew (no faith in God) who rather followed after the oral traditions of the fathers and kings as traditions of men making the word of God without effect. They must of felt naked .
The time of reformation had come. Christ was cutting off the use of a outward fleshly representative as king in respect to the flesh of a Jew. A improper order for walking by faith that came about because the faithless Jews wanted a fleshly representative as a king because of their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nations.
How soon is the fig tree withered away! It set up the tossing out of the old covenant system as the mountain representing a kingdom Judging it as not worthy by casting it into the sea. God had gave the faithless Jews over to do that which they should not of. God used that period of time as a parable . The veil remain rent.
Acts 2:15-16 King James Version (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
The government was restored to the times of Judges when men and woman prophets judged the world walking by faith . The order that was promised by Joel . That God would pour out His unseen spirit on all flesh the flesh of every nation No longer male and female, Jew and gentile . The divided the wall came tumbling down at the renting of the veil.
Hi Wolfwint,
I agree that Absolute may have taken the concept beyond what is directly stated. (I'll pray about it) And on the flip side, I see no commandment or requirement by God that we have to be sick... or should simply accept sickness rather than combat it with faith. Do you know of a verse requiring us to be sick?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Dear Kelby, no i do not know a Verse which requiring us to be sick.
Nobody likes to be sick. And of course we pray for someone Sho is sick.
But since sin is in the World, also Sickness and death is into this World.
Our Lord overcame sin and death. And that what Jesus created in us as an new creature will not suffer of Sickness and death in Eternity. But our earthly body does. And this is a not deneyable reality.
I do not know an Verse which says that our earthly body will never be sick ore handycapted.
Wolf,
The combination of these two quoted statements is why my stance is somewhat in between. I expect it to come, but I also fight it... just like sin. You'd be surprised how much you can fight off with faith in Jesus when it has no written right to attach itself.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Dear Kelby, i know that we cant put our great God and father in an box and can tell him, was he has to do.Wolf,
The combination of these two quoted statements is why my stance is somewhat in between. I expect it to come, but I also fight it... just like sin. You'd be surprised how much you can fight off with faith in Jesus when it has no written right to attach itself.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
He has his way to help his children. I do not need an assurance that he keeps me in health condition.
I have the assurance he loves me and that i can trust Him. That is much more important.
Our Lord bless you
OP did you receive that car?
Just wondering.
Am also reminded of Rachel saying give me children else I die, and she died in childbirth.
Jesus cursing the fig tree, it died.
In terms of life, well we all recieve the gift of eternal life when life (gospel) is spoken to us. And we hear it. So there is power of life and death in the tongue and those who speak it eat the fruit of it.
Arent we living proof of this bearing fruits of the holy spirit? Do we curse and swear at people? Do we condemn others? No we bless and speak life to others. We tell them they can be saved and forgiven.
Have you ever been sworn at or cursed? Not a nice thing to do to anyone, why would people do it, well sadly some people do make cutting remarks and hope that the person receiving it will die or get hurt by them. How many vulnerable people comitt suicide just through some horrible remark that they believed.
Just wondering.
Am also reminded of Rachel saying give me children else I die, and she died in childbirth.
Jesus cursing the fig tree, it died.
In terms of life, well we all recieve the gift of eternal life when life (gospel) is spoken to us. And we hear it. So there is power of life and death in the tongue and those who speak it eat the fruit of it.
Arent we living proof of this bearing fruits of the holy spirit? Do we curse and swear at people? Do we condemn others? No we bless and speak life to others. We tell them they can be saved and forgiven.
Have you ever been sworn at or cursed? Not a nice thing to do to anyone, why would people do it, well sadly some people do make cutting remarks and hope that the person receiving it will die or get hurt by them. How many vulnerable people comitt suicide just through some horrible remark that they believed.
Note...Jesus cursed a tree, he didnt curse people. This is just to demonstrate that his words had power.
I believe you are making reference from James 1:5. However, this scripture does not say knowledge.
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." James 1:5
Wisdom and knowledge are two different things. "Knowledge is about facts and ideas that we acquire through study, research, investigation, observation, or experience. Wisdom is the ability to discern and judge which aspects of that knowledge are true, right, lasting, and applicable to your life."
A portion of your statement has left me troubled for awhile, so I went back to it. Moreover, I say this in hopes that it would bring edification.
I believe you are making reference from James 1:5. However, this scripture does not say knowledge in any translation I examined.
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." James 1:5
Wisdom and knowledge are two different things. "Knowledge is about facts and ideas that we acquire through study, research, investigation, observation, or experience. Wisdom is the ability to discern and judge which aspects of that knowledge are true, right, lasting, and applicable to your life."
That is not my claim.
Just like all are not and will not be saved,even though salvation and healing are their portion,( under their option to lay hold of both or either.).
The question is, is it His will to be sick? Or,is it His will to be healed.
Research reveals his will.
This issue is so tied up in eschatology (what you believe bout end times.) Soteriology, or how we are saved, and live that out, and anthropology (study of humans - created by God, fell and sinned in the Garden, the prophecy in Genesis 3 that Jesus was going to win, and what really happened after the cross, in terms of our relation with God. And the order of salvation.
As I said, salvation has three basic stages:
1. Justification by faith. (Romans 5:1, etc)
2. Sanctification (Romans 6:22)
3. Glorification (Romans 8:17)
There are lots of other references. Feel free to go to Biblegateway.com, and look for glorified in the Bible. The Bible speaks many times of God being glorified. We will be gloried when Christ returns.
The point is the order of salvaion is a 3 step process. Word Faith believer is justified, and goes right into being perfect and gloried. We live in a fallen world. But we know that God saves us! Then comes the long road of being sancitified. We are not perfect till we get to stage 3. When we meet Jesus. So, there is really no order of salvation, mostly be saved, be perfect, and claim your power.
Word Faith takes every promise made to the church and moves it from being at the end of our lives to at the same time as when we are justified. The process of salvation for Word Faith, looks like this:
1. Justified = Glorified.
So the end comes at the beginning! And I will admit this sometimes happens. If God saves someone, they are immediately saved, and it if they are on their death bed, then die saved by the blood of the lamb. But if we are immediately justified, and then skip over sanctification that theology is unsound.
And if Word Faith means perfection, as God iss perfect, then humans must be NOT just perfect, but they become a "little god." Then, as a god, you have the right, supposedly, to command things into existance. I am not talking amount the power of prayer, I am talking about this totally unsanctified jump to not just glorification, but to become "god."
Humans are finite. No amount of pretending, name or claim it, will make humans into gods. Only God can command things, in the Word Faith sense. Only God can speak things into existance. The triune God is infinite. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not just the model, but they rule everything. We can never become infinite. So, we are not gods, and we do not have the same power as God.
Placebo effect aside, we do not heal. We can pray for the sick and ourselves, and God answers according to his will. Nothing about humans being infinite in the Bible. No magic of being able to comand things.
So, to answer the OP and many others, we are not God, we are not infinite, and we cannot "change reality with our words."
I consider this whole Word Faith doctrine of appropriating what is God's - his power, as an infinite being, to create the entire world and the whole universe, all life, and to fight Satan's evil plans in a single blow on the cross. And taking what is God's perogative is blasphemy, making yourself to be a god, and equal to the three in one.
The God who loves us with a pure heart, allows many things for good, including sickness and health. Show me a clear passage in the Bible about humans, not God, that gives them the authority to be a god. Other than one badly translated OT verse, and the NT fulfillment of prophecy, Jesus is the one who is in control.
"Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
The word for "authority" here is exousia. All authority - πᾶσα ἐξουσία - all authority! Given to Jesus, becaused he is one with the Father and Holy Spirit! And the verses in the gospels that say authority is given to his disciples, was just temporary. Because the Bible is clear that the last thing Jesus said was "All authority has been given to me."
As I said, salvation has three basic stages:
1. Justification by faith. (Romans 5:1, etc)
2. Sanctification (Romans 6:22)
3. Glorification (Romans 8:17)
There are lots of other references. Feel free to go to Biblegateway.com, and look for glorified in the Bible. The Bible speaks many times of God being glorified. We will be gloried when Christ returns.
The point is the order of salvaion is a 3 step process. Word Faith believer is justified, and goes right into being perfect and gloried. We live in a fallen world. But we know that God saves us! Then comes the long road of being sancitified. We are not perfect till we get to stage 3. When we meet Jesus. So, there is really no order of salvation, mostly be saved, be perfect, and claim your power.
Word Faith takes every promise made to the church and moves it from being at the end of our lives to at the same time as when we are justified. The process of salvation for Word Faith, looks like this:
1. Justified = Glorified.
So the end comes at the beginning! And I will admit this sometimes happens. If God saves someone, they are immediately saved, and it if they are on their death bed, then die saved by the blood of the lamb. But if we are immediately justified, and then skip over sanctification that theology is unsound.
And if Word Faith means perfection, as God iss perfect, then humans must be NOT just perfect, but they become a "little god." Then, as a god, you have the right, supposedly, to command things into existance. I am not talking amount the power of prayer, I am talking about this totally unsanctified jump to not just glorification, but to become "god."
Humans are finite. No amount of pretending, name or claim it, will make humans into gods. Only God can command things, in the Word Faith sense. Only God can speak things into existance. The triune God is infinite. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not just the model, but they rule everything. We can never become infinite. So, we are not gods, and we do not have the same power as God.
Placebo effect aside, we do not heal. We can pray for the sick and ourselves, and God answers according to his will. Nothing about humans being infinite in the Bible. No magic of being able to comand things.
So, to answer the OP and many others, we are not God, we are not infinite, and we cannot "change reality with our words."
I consider this whole Word Faith doctrine of appropriating what is God's - his power, as an infinite being, to create the entire world and the whole universe, all life, and to fight Satan's evil plans in a single blow on the cross. And taking what is God's perogative is blasphemy, making yourself to be a god, and equal to the three in one.
The God who loves us with a pure heart, allows many things for good, including sickness and health. Show me a clear passage in the Bible about humans, not God, that gives them the authority to be a god. Other than one badly translated OT verse, and the NT fulfillment of prophecy, Jesus is the one who is in control.
"Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
The word for "authority" here is exousia. All authority - πᾶσα ἐξουσία - all authority! Given to Jesus, becaused he is one with the Father and Holy Spirit! And the verses in the gospels that say authority is given to his disciples, was just temporary. Because the Bible is clear that the last thing Jesus said was "All authority has been given to me."
Thanks for sharing your perspective Angela.
Would love to read your perspective on Matthew 8.
Would love to read your perspective on Matthew 8.
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PS. 75:7.
But God is The Judge: He puts down one, and sets up another.
1JOHN 4:17.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world.
ROMANS 14:10.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
ISA 1:17.
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
1COR. 1-2-3.
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you,
are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1PETER 4:15-16-17-18-19.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to Him
in well doing, as unto A Faithful Creator.