Not By Works

[Budman]

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left

Do you still sin?

(cue excuse for your daily sinning)

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Heb6:4-6

Refers to Jews who came close to receiving Jesus but instead went back to Judaism.

Jesus, in the parable of the sower said people set out on the path and then walked away, how can that be true? If you are on the path you must be in a saved state.

Wrong. See above answer.

And you tell me to get into the "meat" of God's Word.

*shakes head*

 

[Macabeus]

Now for DC lie number two,

84,165-show one post where someone says " .. can be a believer for many year without bearing any fruit ".

show a post one someone types out these words.

84,183- (reply to GB9) I gave link and typed post 600

84,185 gave link- second post where you said a believer can be a believer for many years and not bear any fruit.

YOUR RESPONSE to GB9's post (show one post that says believer saved many years, no fruit)

Instead of owning up to what you said, you said, "Some of the guys in here are as false as can be"

You accused me of being false IN RESPONSE TO GB9's challenge that someone said "a person can be a believer for many years and not bear fruit". That is deceptive.

and then much later, post 84,217 you finally own up to what you said...

DC 84,217- 1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth

 

[unclesilas]

Do you still sin?

(cue excuse for your daily sinning)



Refers to Jews who came close to receiving Jesus but instead went back to Judaism.



Wrong. See above answer.

And you tell me to get into the "meat" of God's Word.

*shakes head*

You have no understanding at all of the meat of God's word. You grab a few scriptures, build a doctrine on them, while ignoring multiple other scriptures that show your understanding to be in error. Yet you think you knows much. The fact you ask me if I still sin, after reading what I quoted shows how little you truly understand, alongside your attempted explanations at some of the scriptures quoted.

 

[Macabeus]

have you ever thought that maybe you are just making up a false premise? Christians are supposed to do go works, bear good fruit.

I personally just want to go to Heaven, be with the Lord, and away from this sick, twisted world.

that will be my reward. I do want a 100 room mansion. i'll be happy to sit on the front porch.

and as far as our exchange yesterday, I said " I stand corrected ".

so, yes I read your posts. you insist that doing good works are a gift. well. o.k.

I say that works are a result of grace.

we both agree that Christians are to being doing good works.

let's not get greedy and want to start looking at them as merit instead of just doing the right thing because we are supposed to.

Were the good works you do PREPARED FOR YOU BY GOD LONG AGO? Yes or no?

...and do the branches bear the root or does the root bear the branches.

Jesus is the root and the Spirit is the life that is imparted to the branches. Without the root and the life, there are no works that can be biblically defined as GOOD.

Paul said "I labor more than all of them, yet not I but the Grace of God that is in me."

Paul said "what do you have that you did not receive"

 

[Budman]

You have no understanding at all of the meat of God's word. You grab a few scriptures, build a doctrine on them, while ignoring multiple other scriptures that show your understanding to be in error. Yet you think you knows much. The fact you ask me if I still sin, after reading what I quoted shows how little you truly understand, alongside your attempted explanations at some of the scriptures quoted.

Your kind loves to condemn others for what you yourself are doing. Get off your self-righteous high horse.

 

[unclesilas]

Your kind loves to condemn others for what you yourself are doing. Get off your self-righteous high horse.

I came on this website for serious debate, I see that is impossible with you. Many come on internet debating websites thinking they know much, selectively quoting their favourite scriptures, whilst ignoring what shows their error. Oh well

 

[Budman]

I came on this website for serious debate, I see that is impossible with you. Many come on internet debating websites thinking they know much, selectively quoting their favourite scriptures, whilst ignoring what shows their error. Oh well

Nice excuse for when you get backed into a corner.

And you're not interested in debate. You're here to hammer your "works" gospel in every way you can spin it.

 

[unclesilas]

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1John3:9

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8

Do we have a contradiction in the bible? No!

If you asked most Christians if you had to be sinless to be in a saved state, they would respond: ''No'' for no one is perfect in their flesh(1John1:8)
However, if you asked most Christians if someone could be in a saved state if they happily lived a lifestyle of sin, they would also say ''No'' (1John3:9)

 

[unclesilas]

Nice excuse for when you get backed into a corner.

And you're not interested in debate. You're here to hammer your "works" gospel in every way you can spin it.

Have you no toys to play with?

 

[unclesilas]

Nice excuse for when you get backed into a corner.

And you're not interested in debate. You're here to hammer your "works" gospel in every way you can spin it.

BTW
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans3:20

Bearing in mind the definition of sin, romans 3:20 could just as well be written:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in God's sight by not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin

Of course, Paul still warned born again believers that if they acted in certain ways(as mentioned) they would not inherit the kingdom of Heaven

I know, you are totally confused aren't you

 

[Budman]

Have you no toys to play with?

Keep squirming.

 

[Budman]

BTW
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans3:20

Bearing in mind the definition of sin, romans 3:20 could just as well be written:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in God's sight by not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin

Of course, Paul still warned born again believers that if they acted in certain ways(as mentioned) they would not inherit the kingdom of Heaven

I know, you are totally confused aren't you

You have absolutely no concept of the Two Natures, do you?

 

[unclesilas]

You have absolutely no concept of the Two Natures, do you?

Well obviously I would not claim to know as much as you do. I do know believers sin in the flesh. And Paul warned born again believers if they sinned(obviously in the flesh) in certain ways they would not inherit the kingdom of God

 

[Goodnewsman]

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions/sin – it is by grace you have been saved Eph2:5

It is quite plainly written. You do not have to fully obey the law/not commit sin in order to be placed in a saved state.

However, let me quote scripture as others do, with the same mindset they appear to have.

Have you ever fasted? If you have, did you so much as hint to anyone you were fasting? If so you would be a hypocrite according to Christ. Can hypocrites expect to enter heaven?
Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal but rather the poor, blind lame and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven? If not, why refuse to do what Christ stated?
Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may be unkind to you or persecute you? If not why do you refuse to do what Christ said believers should do?
Jesus said if you love him you will obey his commandments. If you do not obey him do you not love him?
If someone stole something of yours, would you give them more besides what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them? If not, why not?

You see, anyone can quote the partial letter, and hold it inflexibly. But in truth, we all rely on the love mercy and compassion of God for we all fail the letter each and every day of our lives

Again you to

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions/sin – it is by grace you have been saved Eph2:5

It is quite plainly written. You do not have to fully obey the law/not commit sin in order to be placed in a saved state.

However, let me quote scripture as others do, with the same mindset they appear to have.

Have you ever fasted? If you have, did you so much as hint to anyone you were fasting? If so you would be a hypocrite according to Christ. Can hypocrites expect to enter heaven?
Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal but rather the poor, blind lame and beggars so you may receive your reward in Heaven? If not, why refuse to do what Christ stated?
Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may be unkind to you or persecute you? If not why do you refuse to do what Christ said believers should do?
Jesus said if you love him you will obey his commandments. If you do not obey him do you not love him?
If someone stole something of yours, would you give them more besides what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them? If not, why not?

You see, anyone can quote the partial letter, and hold it inflexibly. But in truth, we all rely on the love mercy and compassion of God for we all fail the letter each and every day of our lives

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16 KJV
I'm simply saying we do not HAVE to sin. We chose to. And thank God 1 John said "IF we sin (not WHEN we sin) we have an advocate with the father...

As far as you List of quoted Bible verses I believe everyone of them. They sound to me like what Christians do. I hope you haven't surrounded yourself with so many hypocrites that you don't even know that there is real Christians in this world who hears and does what Christ said to do

 

[Macabeus]

DC lie number three...

DC- post 84,181-The same guy that lied about me by saying that I did not even know that faith was a gift now is saying that i say that prodigal sons that never come back blah blah blah....... He will have to direct quote me saying that or still be found false.........

more on that in a moment. Let's observe another deception first.

Later, you said "show me the post where I said prodigals never come back. (A deliberate twisting of my words. Here is what I said.)

Here is what I said...post 84,160- He talks about prodigal sons who never come home, and says their still sons.

I did not say "prodigals never come home" , I said "prodigals who never come home". You made it sound like my statement was all inclusive. That is lie number 4, below is lie number 3

So you ask for post where you say that a son can die and still be a son? Not a direct quote, but an admission and agreement to the premise. and HERE IT IS DC!!!!

Eternally grateful- thread God lied- post 667- So your saying you believe the prodigal was a son, stopped being a son (lost salvation) then was restored?Just asking for confirmation, again, if the son died in a prodigal state, would he have been his fathers son, or cast out to eternal darkness?

DC response 664-That is exactly what some of these people believe and peddle.............I would love to see an actual example of that.............a son by birth will always be a son by birth......it is idiotic to think that my son which was born my son can ever NOT be my son........idiotic.....

If a son dies in his sins, that is the same as not coming back

Four deceptions. You are the deceptive one

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! However Matthew seven is speaking of Sin in general. While working out our own salvation outside of Christ can be included. Matthew seven is speaking of sin in general


Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. THEREFORE whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
(Mat 7:15-24 KJV)

In summary....
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. THEREFORE (for that reason; consequently ) whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In other words Not doing the sayings of Jesus, the will of the FATHER is bad fruit; iniquity.

Blending faith with works to gain, keep or top off salvation is working iniquity.....because it voids the word, peddles a false gospel and turns the truth into a lie..........

 

[unclesilas]

Again you to


This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16 KJV
I'm simply saying we do not HAVE to sin. We chose to. And thank God 1 John said "IF we sin (not WHEN we sin) we have an advocate with the father...

As far as you List of quoted Bible verses I believe everyone of them. They sound to me like what Christians do. I hope you haven't surrounded yourself with so many hypocrites that you don't even know that there is real Christians in this world who hears and does what Christ said to do

OK, so when you sin it is because you choose to do so. That's fine.
Personally speaking, in over five decades of going to various denominational churches I have met not one person who has even tried to obey each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels. However, the internet is on occasion a wee bit different.

 

[Budman]

Well obviously I would not claim to know as much as you do. I do know believers sin in the flesh. And Paul warned born again believers if they sinned(obviously in the flesh) in certain ways they would not inherit the kingdom of God

Well, as you sin every single day - will you inherit the Kingdom?

 

[unclesilas]

Well, as you sin every single day - will you inherit the Kingdom?

lol, go back and read my post on 1John1:8&1John3:9

 

[unclesilas]

Well, as you sin every single day - will you inherit the Kingdom?

And why have you not explained to me, that as Romans 3:20 could be written as:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/justified in God's sight by not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Why, bearing that verse in mind is Paul warning born again believers if they sin in certain ways they will not inherit the kingdom of God? Bear in mind, you only sin in the flesh