Should we follow Jewish or Gentile early Christian Fathers

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#1
For 72 years Jews led the Christian Church. After 132 years Jewish leaders were all killed in the Bar Kokhba war so gentiles took over leadership. There was a vast difference. Jews had grown up knowing scripture, the gentiles grew up knowing idol worship, mythology, and folklore. The Jews felt Christ was as the OT told of Him. The gentiles thought Christ was a new God. Gentiles thought of Jews as odd people who had strangeways. Gentiles believed they could follow Christ but have nothing to do with anything Jewish.​

Paul told us that the old way of sin was no longer, Christ took the definition of sin to a new and higher level, as Christ explained in the Sermon on the Mt. As an example, the old way was not to murder. The new way was obedience of the spirit of the law. That meant that added to law is thought, word as well as deed.

Gentiles added their doctrine to this. Now everything Jewish was tossed, even what God gave as “for all generations” meaning every person who became God’s own, all God’s family. The gentiles told of God as having the characteristics of the ones they grew up with, for they believed the Father aged and got cranky and mean so the Son took over. That is the way they had been taught that Gods behaved.

God is so powerful and magnificent that even with these ideas added to the attributes of God, what they got right changed their world. These Christians added love and compassion the world had lacked.

I think we should go back over all the man-made doctrines these early gentiles brought in and eliminate those that do no come from God. I think we should never think of what God tells us as Jewish, but think of what is Godly.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,727
113
#2
Blik, do you think that Paul was a faithful apostle of Jesus Christ?
 
U

unclesilas

Active member
#3
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
#3
Blik said:
For 72 years Jews led the Christian Church. After 132 years Jewish leaders were all killed in the Bar Kokhba war so gentiles took over leadership. There was a vast difference. Jews had grown up knowing scripture, the gentiles grew up knowing idol worship, mythology, and folklore. The Jews felt Christ was as the OT told of Him. The gentiles thought Christ was a new God. Gentiles thought of Jews as odd people who had strangeways. Gentiles believed they could follow Christ but have nothing to do with anything Jewish.​

Paul told us that the old way of sin was no longer, Christ took the definition of sin to a new and higher level, as Christ explained in the Sermon on the Mt. As an example, the old way was not to murder. The new way was obedience of the spirit of the law. That meant that added to law is thought, word as well as deed.

Gentiles added their doctrine to this. Now everything Jewish was tossed, even what God gave as “for all generations” meaning every person who became God’s own, all God’s family. The gentiles told of God as having the characteristics of the ones they grew up with, for they believed the Father aged and got cranky and mean so the Son took over. That is the way they had been taught that Gods behaved.

God is so powerful and magnificent that even with these ideas added to the attributes of God, what they got right changed their world. These Christians added love and compassion the world had lacked.

I think we should go back over all the man-made doctrines these early gentiles brought in and eliminate those that do no come from God. I think we should never think of what God tells us as Jewish, but think of what is Godly.
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I have never felt convicted to read of those referred to as the ''church fathers'' who you would call the gentile church fathers. The bible is enough for me. And yes, I know Jews wrote it.
 
S

selfdissolving

Guest
#4
#4
how about we just stick to the Bible
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#5
selfdissolving said:
how about we just stick to the Bible
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Sticking to the bible, listening to scripture and not doctrine, and knowing it was not Jews who wrote it but God who gave the information to the Jews to write it down. THIS is my point. I am asking if you agree?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#6
#6
Blik said:
Sticking to the bible, listening to scripture and not doctrine, and knowing it was not Jews who wrote it but God who gave the information to the Jews to write it down. THIS is my point. I am asking if you agree?
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God worked through the Jews to write the Bible. Scripture and doctrine go hand in hand. Guess I'm missing your point...
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#8
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#8
Blik said:
Sticking to the bible, listening to scripture and not doctrine, and knowing it was not Jews who wrote it but God who gave the information to the Jews to write it down. THIS is my point. I am asking if you agree?
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Stick to Scripture.
Sound doctrine is commanded and is not opposed to the Bible but is derived from the Bible.
God chose the Jews to receive His Word and share it with the world.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#12
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#12
SpoonJuly said:
Another Sabbath post.
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Do you truly think it is only Sunday worship that does not strictly follow scripture? It seems to me it includes how we view Christ and the Father, how our holidays are managed, and even the way God has us understand sin as Christ fulfilled it.

I think how our world is and has been proves it. We have gone through a time that murdering Jews was part of our world. The homelessness and children adrift in the world today is very like in ancient times. These things would not be possible in a world who divides the word of the Lord correctly.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#13
Jul 3, 2015
59,812
29,191
113
#13
Blik said:
For 72 years Jews led the Christian Church.
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The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. From Acts 11:26. That is Scripture. Christians led the church :rolleyes:
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#14
#14
Blik said:
Do you truly think it is only Sunday worship that does not strictly follow scripture? It seems to me it includes how we view Christ and the Father, how our holidays are managed, and even the way God has us understand sin as Christ fulfilled it.

I think how our world is and has been proves it. We have gone through a time that murdering Jews was part of our world. The homelessness and children adrift in the world today is very like in ancient times. These things would not be possible in a world who divides the word of the Lord correctly.
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If you remove the first sentence, I can agree with you.
BUT, your main theme is keeping the Sabbath.
Can you give me one Scripture where those first churches mentioned in Scripture observed the Sabbath?
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#15
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#15
You know what? I think you should just Love God with all your heart, all of your soul and all of your mind and all of your strength Blik and not keep trying to ask others what they SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do because thankfully everyone can read the Bible for themselves if they really want to know.

You are always starting posts asking if we should or should not do this or that. Dont you know, doesnt God speak to you about such things? Why not ask Him if you are so confused. Nobody here is even thinking the way you do that you are always stating jews do this gentiles do that. Also, what may be news to you is that actually, its Jesus who leads the church and always has as he's the head of it, and we worship ONE Father. No church fathers, one Father in Heaven. Even Jesus said call no man your father you have one Father in heaven. So what you are stating is rather misguided.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#16
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,041
113
77
#16
Blik said:
For 72 years Jews led the Christian Church. After 132 years Jewish leaders were all killed in the Bar Kokhba war so gentiles took over leadership. There was a vast difference. Jews had grown up knowing scripture, the gentiles grew up knowing idol worship, mythology, and folklore. The Jews felt Christ was as the OT told of Him. The gentiles thought Christ was a new God. Gentiles thought of Jews as odd people who had strangeways. Gentiles believed they could follow Christ but have nothing to do with anything Jewish.​

Paul told us that the old way of sin was no longer, Christ took the definition of sin to a new and higher level, as Christ explained in the Sermon on the Mt. As an example, the old way was not to murder. The new way was obedience of the spirit of the law. That meant that added to law is thought, word as well as deed.

Gentiles added their doctrine to this. Now everything Jewish was tossed, even what God gave as “for all generations” meaning every person who became God’s own, all God’s family. The gentiles told of God as having the characteristics of the ones they grew up with, for they believed the Father aged and got cranky and mean so the Son took over. That is the way they had been taught that Gods behaved.

God is so powerful and magnificent that even with these ideas added to the attributes of God, what they got right changed their world. These Christians added love and compassion the world had lacked.

I think we should go back over all the man-made doctrines these early gentiles brought in and eliminate those that do no come from God. I think we should never think of what God tells us as Jewish, but think of what is Godly.
Click to expand...
Its not as simple as you describe it. The first Gentiles to come to Christ were not Pagans but known as
God Fearers. They attended Synagogue but were not circumcised. The Greek translation of the OT
was well known in the Greek speaking world and was read and quoted in the NT
 
U

unclesilas

Active member
#17
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
#17
Blik said:
Do you truly think it is only Sunday worship that does not strictly follow scripture? It seems to me it includes how we view Christ and the Father, how our holidays are managed, and even the way God has us understand sin as Christ fulfilled it.

I think how our world is and has been proves it. We have gone through a time that murdering Jews was part of our world. The homelessness and children adrift in the world today is very like in ancient times. These things would not be possible in a world who divides the word of the Lord correctly.
Click to expand...
You know I have chatted to sda members a lot about Saturday sabbath. They amaze me, for they believe that under the new covenant the law God desires believers to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. They also believe:
sin is the transgression of the law,
they also believe:
through the law we become conscious of sin.
you cannot hide from law placed in your most inward parts, you must be conscious you sin when you wilfully break it. And yet, they accept as christians people who have no consciousness of sin at not following a specific Saturday sabbath, though they believe that is a law as written that is in believers hearts and minds.
If a person has no consciousness of sin at not following a specific Saturday sabbath, there is only two possibilities. Either that law as written is not written in the believers minds and placed on their hearts, or no one can be a Christian unless they are conscious they sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath. When you point this spiritual truth out to sda members they tend to ignore it. I guess, that for some chatting on the internet comes with a closed mind, they will always cling to what they want to believe despite the evidence to the contrary.
It is not a written law in ink anymore for the believer, it is a law written by the Spirit of the living God on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3)
 
S

selfdissolving

Guest
#19
#19
Blik said:
Sticking to the bible, listening to scripture and not doctrine, and knowing it was not Jews who wrote it but God who gave the information to the Jews to write it down. THIS is my point. I am asking if you agree?
Click to expand...
I agree with every point except for "listening to Scripture and not doctrine". A doctrine is simply a teaching or a set of teachings or beliefs. We need biblical doctrine to be preached in the Church. The point is that the doctrine must be biblical and correct. We cannot divorce doctrine from Christianity; our entire faith is built on sound doctrine and the Bible is a book of doctrine.

There's a huge push in this postmodern world to label doctrine as a dirty word. In reality, the reason for this is because people themselves want to determine what the truth is. We must reject this notion at all costs and strive for doctrinal purity in the faith.
 
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