Not By Works

[Macabeus]

This is a very important point!!!

Key word being a result, yes I agree

So far removed from why Paul kept writing letters to the churches exhorting them to live out their new identity of being a new creation in Christ.

This false doctrine just wants to put all believers in one "homogeneous, uniform box" so the fruit inspectors can come by and stamp a big SAVED on it by making the false assertion that fruits of the spirit are also a gift and automatic.

If fruits of the Spirit are given by God as a gift and are so automatic why was the church at Corinth having so many struggles?

What kind of gifts did Jesus distribute in Ephesians 4:8? And does God intend them to be used?

It is a sin to judge motives, you are not God and You guys totally have me wrong. What I am saying is intended to refute the doctrine of meritorious works.

Meritorious works teaches that our works obtain our salvation either in part or in whole

I completely refute that doctrine on the following basis...we have NOTHING that was not given to us by God

We have No Righteousness of our own to claim that we can perform any good work that will please God or commend ourselves to Him! Only the works that are performed as a result of being ENGRAFTED in Jesus. WITHOUT HIm, we can do NOTHING!

When works are done in grace they are not duty bound or slavish, they are fruits of love. And WHO DO YOU THINK PUT LOVE THERE?

And who chose our works for us, and enabled us, and equipped us and called us? God

And do our works benefit God or ourselves

And the works that God gave YOU to do, are they not a joy and a blessing, and undeserved favor to serve the KING of Kings

And is it not an unbelievable demonstration of grace that we are CHOSEN vessels of God

The when point is,but is foolish to take a wonderful, unmerited, undeserved, blessing of God and turn around and try to use it as a merit

If you guys can't see that it is a GIFT, a BLESSING, a PRIVILEDGE, an HONOR, to serve the Living God, then you are missing the joy of serving

And something that is free and brings joy and blessing is a gift in my book

We have nothing that we have not received, 1 Corinthians 4:7

 

[safswan]

No, he is refering to his type of faith, a faith he called dead,

Are we saved by a living faith or dead faith (also known as mere belief)?

See post #84118 which addresses this issue.You call it mere belief but the faith is dead because it has no works,not because it is fake/false/mere/bare or any other thing you may want to use to describe it.

 

[dcontroversal]

What kind of gifts did Jesus distribute in Ephesians 4:8? And does God intend them to be used?

It is a sin to judge motives, you are not God and You guys totally have me wrong. What I am saying is intended to refute the doctrine of meritorious works.

Meritorious works teaches that our works obtain our salvation either in part or in whole

I completely refute that doctrine on the following basis...we have NOTHING that was not given to us by God

We have No Righteousness of our own to claim that we can perform any good work that will please God or commend ourselves to Him! Only the works that are performed as a result of being ENGRAFTED in Jesus. WITHOUT HIm, we can do NOTHING!

When works are done in grace they are not duty bound or slavish, they are fruits of love. And WHO DO YOU THINK PUT LOVE THERE?

And who chose our works for us, and enabled us, and equipped us and called us? God

And do our works benefit God or ourselves

And the works that God gave YOU to do, are they not a joy and a blessing, and undeserved favor to serve the KING of Kings

And is it not an unbelievable demonstration of grace that we are CHOSEN vessels of God

The when point is,but is foolish to take a wonderful, unmerited, undeserved, blessing of God and turn around and try to use it as a merit

If you guys can't see that it is a GIFT, a BLESSING, a PRIVILEDGE, an HONOR, to serve the Living God, then you are missing the joy of serving

And something that is free and brings joy and blessing is a gift in my book

We have nothing that we have not received, 1 Corinthians 4:7

Look....it is obvious to me that you are not peddling a works based salvation......I have seen enough to know you do not believe that......I do not agree that works are a gift.....in my view you are conflating two issues............without a doubt...faith, salvation, justification, grace, the gifts of the Spirit, are ALL gifts based upon GRACE.........

OUT of said GIFTS we have the by product of works/fruit that are the RESULT of the gifts given by GOD............HEBREWS 11 proves this........and I will add....

Can we work for salvation? NO why......it is a GIFT that is NOT earned based upon our MERIT and or works right?

IF works are a GIFT that is given FREELY then why are we paid WAGES (REWARDS-->MISTHOS-->PAY or WAGES) for the works we do....

CAN you see the contradiction....

Faith/Salvation is a FREE gift and not a REWARD for SERVICE rendered....

WE are PAID rewards or wages for the WORKS which are a byproduct of the GIFT listed in BOLD.....

 

[Macabeus]

WRITES IN BIG LETTERS EVERYONE WILL SEE..

"READ ME! MY POST IS IMPORTANT! READ ME!

Proceeds to write normally just to troll y'all.. lol

Yes, seeing that his responses show that he misses the point. I have been REFUTING works based salvation by showing that we have nothing that was not given to us. No righteousness, no goodness, no virtue, no power to please God, no power to bear fruit, no authority, no liberty, no fruit, no desire to submit to God, no love for God, NOTHING!

It is ALL of Grace or none of it is. If some is of grace and some of ourselves, then it is no more grace

And Grace is an unmerited GIFT

I'm sorry you all don't know that you have nothing good that was not received by Grace. If I have anything that I did not receive, then Christ was wrong when He said "without me, you can do nothing"

This is the high view of grace as compared to lower views of grace. The self worth gospel and humanism have grossly effected Christianity to where many hold a man centered gospel. Easy believism and meritorious works gospel are both man centered, not God centered. Both are based on what MAN does, whether believe alone or believe plus works. The true gospel is centered on what GOD does

You hear the Gospel about what God did, and believe because the Spirit impressed the truth on your heart. It is not about the belief, the belief is not the basis of salvation. The work of God isthe basis

 

[safswan]

Or maybe you could show me where i misunderstood so i can answer you correctly, instead of acting this way.

My question was(referring to Abraham):

"And if he had failed to offer his son and continued to fail when tried subsequently then what would his status/condition be?"

Your response:

" He was saved in chapter 15, god knew he would do it, because he inew his faith was real.God is omniscient, i inow thats hard for uou to understand, but its truel"

My reply to your assumption:

"Wow!!How do you even have any clue about what I understand?And you haven't answered the question.But then I don't expect you to."

How now are you saying:
" Or maybe you could show me where i misunderstood so i can answer you correctly, instead of acting this way"

Did you forget what you said?Did you forget the initial question?Do you have an answer?

 

[safswan]

Really my words are awful.........okay read your scripture verse here who is Jesus talking to?

What point in time is He stating this to the Jews?

You said:

"Deciding to obey and follow Jesus does not make you a Christian, although it might make you a good Catholic"

This is very contrary to the whole counsel of scripture.For example:

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."(I John 3:7)

It is also unnecessarily disparaging being a broad-brush of a large group of persons.

 

[Macabeus]

WRITES IN BIG LETTERS EVERYONE WILL SEE..

"READ ME! MY POST IS IMPORTANT! READ ME!

Proceeds to write normally just to troll y'all.. lol

You couldn't be more wrong

we have nothing that we did not receive by Grace, then it is ALL by grace

And Grace is synonymous with unmerited favor or gift

Mary found FAVOR with the Lord and bore the Son of God. She said I am your HANDMAIDEN. She understood that being used of God is a Divine FAVOR, ie GRACE, ie AN UNDESERED GIFT
Blessings

 

[safswan]

The context of this verse in John 8 is a group of Jews who believed that Jesus said was true, but they did not believe "into" (Greek "eis") Jesus. By the end of the chapter Jesus very clearly defines them as outside of being his followers.

It is not those who just say that what Jesus says is true that are his disciples, but it is those who continue in what he said and taught.

Exactly the point.

 

[safswan]

You know EVERY SINGLE One of you, who thinks JAMES teaches you must keep the LAW to be saved, MAKES THE SAME MISTAKE.
YOU SKIP VERSE 13.


James 2:13-14 (HCSB)
13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn’t shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can his faith save him?


YOU MUST HAVE MERCY FROM THE LORD TO BE SAVED, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WORKS:


Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:8 (HCSB)
8 This saying is trustworthy. . . .


YOU are cherry picking your favorite verses, while you never even read verse 13 in context to see what it means.

YES, JESUS TEACHES THAT IF YOU LOVE HIM, YOU ARE SAVED, AND THEREFORE THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU WERE SAVED, WILL BE IN YOUR FRUIT (OBEDIENCE); HOWEVER, YOU ARE SAVED WHEN YOUR SEED FIRST SPROUTED OUT OF THE GROUND, ALSO CALLED THE BEGINNING OF FAITH.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Trash Can your presuppositions, learn to read in context, and you will make far fewer mistakes in interpretation.

Read again the study, "Justification",post #82,364 with an open mid and you will see how unnecessary and your rant was.Excerpts:

".....Paul says justification is by faith and faith alone.[Romans 3:23-28;Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9] But he also asks,if, after receiving this pardon,should we continue in sin.[Romans 6:1,2] He says no and hence shows there is another part to justification which James speaks of in his statement above and which Paul alludes to in other passages.[Romans 2:13]
The part which man has no control of and can do nothing to gain may be called redemption or reconciliation( Romans 3:24;Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14;Hebrews 9:12,15;Romans 5:10;II Corinthians 5:18-20) and the second area is that which man will do by the power which God has given him, by his submitting to the will of God and living a righteous and holy life.Hence whereas Paul is making clear to the readers at Rome that the reason we have the opportunity to gain eternal life is not by our own doing,he also says, when we have accepted this opportunity by accepting baptism,we are not expected to continue to live in sin,but we must live in a manner which is acceptable to God who gives us the power to do this....."


"......In conclusion,we cannot free ourselves from the curse of the law.Only the death of one who was just could do this great work of reconciliation with God.[Deuteronomy 11:26-29;27: 11-26;28: 15-19;Galatians 3:13;Hebrews 9:15;10:1-10; I Peter 1:18-21;2:24, 25;Romans 3:22,23.]
For neither the blood of bulls and goats(works of the law) nor our good works(works of righteousness) could redeem us from the consequences of sin.[Romans 3:20;Romans 6:23;Ezekiel 20:24,25;Romans 9:31,32;Titus 3:5;Hebrews 10:1-14;Galatians 2:16;3:19,24- 26]
After being redeemed,however, in order to attain the promise of eternal life,which was made possible by the death of Jesus,we must forsake sin and live according to God's laws.[I Peter 1:9-23;Romans 6:1-14;I Corinthians 6:9-11;Titus 3:8;Romans 8:1-8,13;Ezekiel 36:26,27;I Peter 4:1-4;Romans 7;7;3:20b;I John 3:4;I Timothy 1:8;Jeremiah 31:33,34;Exodus 24:12;Hebrews 8:8-13; II Corinthians 3:1-3;Revelation 22:14]
This is how the law/works justifies. As Paul said:
Romans 2:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

If we continue in sin after accepting this gift of grace,we are in danger of facing the wrath of God,however, we still have an advocate who intercedes on our behalf if we have strayed from the path of righteousness. [Hebrews 7:22-25;10:26- 29,38,39; 12:1-17;I John 2:1,2;Psalm 32:1-5,8,10]....."

 

[unclesilas]

Read again the study, "Justification",post #82,364 with an open mid and you will see how unnecessary and your rant was.Excerpts:

".....Paul says justification is by faith and faith alone.[Romans 3:23-28;Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9] But he also asks,if, after receiving this pardon,should we continue in sin.[Romans 6:1,2] He says no and hence shows there is another part to justification which James speaks of in his statement above and which Paul alludes to in other passages.[Romans 2:13]
The part which man has no control of and can do nothing to gain may be called redemption or reconciliation( Romans 3:24;Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14;Hebrews 9:12,15;Romans 5:10;II Corinthians 5:18-20) and the second area is that which man will do by the power which God has given him, by his submitting to the will of God and living a righteous and holy life.Hence whereas Paul is making clear to the readers at Rome that the reason we have the opportunity to gain eternal life is not by our own doing,he also says, when we have accepted this opportunity by accepting baptism,we are not expected to continue to live in sin,but we must live in a manner which is acceptable to God who gives us the power to do this....."


"......In conclusion,we cannot free ourselves from the curse of the law.Only the death of one who was just could do this great work of reconciliation with God.[Deuteronomy 11:26-29;27: 11-26;28: 15-19;Galatians 3:13;Hebrews 9:15;10:1-10; I Peter 1:18-21;2:24, 25;Romans 3:22,23.]
For neither the blood of bulls and goats(works of the law) nor our good works(works of righteousness) could redeem us from the consequences of sin.[Romans 3:20;Romans 6:23;Ezekiel 20:24,25;Romans 9:31,32;Titus 3:5;Hebrews 10:1-14;Galatians 2:16;3:19,24- 26]
After being redeemed,however, in order to attain the promise of eternal life,which was made possible by the death of Jesus,we must forsake sin and live according to God's laws.[I Peter 1:9-23;Romans 6:1-14;I Corinthians 6:9-11;Titus 3:8;Romans 8:1-8,13;Ezekiel 36:26,27;I Peter 4:1-4;Romans 7;7;3:20b;I John 3:4;I Timothy 1:8;Jeremiah 31:33,34;Exodus 24:12;Hebrews 8:8-13; II Corinthians 3:1-3;Revelation 22:14]
This is how the law/works justifies. As Paul said:
Romans 2:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

If we continue in sin after accepting this gift of grace,we are in danger of facing the wrath of God,however, we still have an advocate who intercedes on our behalf if we have strayed from the path of righteousness. [Hebrews 7:22-25;10:26- 29,38,39; 12:1-17;I John 2:1,2;Psalm 32:1-5,8,10]....."

I once believed I was saved by grace through faith, but my justification, once saved hinged on obeying the law. I became full of all manner of concupiscence(Rom7:8) as was Saul the Pharisee under that system

 

[Historyanswers]

Amen! In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a believer lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

So JPT can try all he wants to make this parable teach that this one "sheep" in this case was a saved person who lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again, but to no avail. JPT conveniently forgets what Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Luke 19:10, we read - For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
*Not lost his salvation and has to get it back again.

hi i chose your post because of the bible verse quoted ,
as you can see
Pharisees and scribes and jesus christ, were the only people at this time in history , who had authority to read from these books in the torah,
paul was an other that could read from these, books ,everyone else had no authority to read from these book. yet mostly all jewish people went to synagogue . and would have heard from the pull pity about the law. etc

gentiles could not go in a synagogue or associate with jews.
28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. acts 10

salvation dose not need a law, it needs the saviour to have done, what new testament believers, has said what jesus christ has done,

gentile had no access to readable material ,at this point in history,so if your a gentile you have no law because acts 15 is about this very issue,
and why the only people who had access , parted company after the resurection, (iePharisees and scribes) and christain became the word that described jesus christ believers, the fact that gentiles are looking at sin shows they have no idea, what jesus christ already done for them,
and are confused to the meaning to what a gentile and jewish christian is,


21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[e] gal 2

gaining access to gods presence either in church or prayer life, has nothing to do with any action, we have done, but wholly depends on jesus christ, etc by faith in what jesus christ has done i can enter in to god presence.


repentance depends on a law, gentile are wholly depending on what jesus christ has done, for salvation. entering gods presence depend on god gift of the holy spirit, ware we have no condemnation from god.

 

[unclesilas]

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom2:12&13

Does the above refer to believers? Paul states believers are not under the law. However, if you live under the law you must fully obey the law to be declared righteous under it.

 

[Historyanswers]

Pharisees and scribes and jesus christ, were the only people at this time in history , who had authority to read from these books in the torah,
paul was an other that could read from these, books ,everyone else had no authority to read from these book. yet mostly all jewish people went to synagogue . and would have heard from the pull pity about the law. etc these people were the ones that could define from scripture to what was a sin and what punishment was given to the law breaker,

 

[Historyanswers]

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom2:12&13

Does the above refer to believers? Paul states believers are not under the law. However, if you live under the law you must fully obey the law to be declared righteous under it.

the fact that gentiles are looking at sin shows they have no idea, what jesus christ already done for them,
and are confused to the meaning to what and jew and gentile christian are

28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. acts 10

 

[Macabeus]

Luke 1:74-75- granted/given didomai, liberty to serve the Lord in holiness and rigjteousness

Luke 1:28- chosen to be used of God is to be shown favor

You write a lot of good things. I'm catching up on posts and am not able to be on as much as I'd like right now.

But this caught my eye..

"Good works are the outworking of the spiritual fruit produced by the Holy Spirit. IF the Spirit is a gift, then the fruit He produces is a gift too."

That would be saying that the gardener ( Holy Spirit) and the trees would be the same wouldn't it? Did you mean to say it this way?

No, Jesus is the Vine and the Holy Spirit is the life imparted and we are the branches. We bear no fruit of ourselves. It is ALL of Grace

 

[Macabeus]

Hi Macaeus, reality check here, the "only thing" that resembles a "tree" albeit and orange tree or a lemon tree in your analogies, it is "the tree that our Savior shed His blood upon" and died and then was raised from the dead for our justification; the tree which is"The Cross of Calvary."

Abraham was credited as righteous because he believed God, "Not By Works." "However to the one who does not work but believes in Him;" the bible say's believing is not a work.

We are Gods workmanship and saved, "unto good works" we are not saved by "our good works."

There is no boasting of works before God there is only boasting in the work of our Savior Jesus Christ period.

Romans 4:1-6
1) What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, has discovered? 2) If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, 'but not before God.' 3) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”4) Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5) However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6) And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

I'm sorry you are unfamiliar with the parable of the Olive tree, Jesus analogy of the good and bad tree, the parable of the Vine, John 15 which I guess is not a tree, but the parable speaks the same principle as my analogy, etc

Again my point is that we have no goodness, virtue, ability to do good, desire to please God, faith to perform, NOTHING that we did not receive from God

Oh, and also that serving God is being shown Divine FAVOUR, which removes ANY thought of Merit in our works

You guys are so shells hocked from works salvationists that you disagree with a man that says it is not part grace, it IS ALL GRACE. And is not Grace defined as unmerited favor or an undeserved gift

I can't believe some of you can't understand this FOUNDATIONAL truth. It must be a result of the easy believism indoctrination.

This here what I am saying is reformed theology. How can you think reformed theology is a works salvation system? Do you and DC think the reformers were false teachers, as I have been accused of. Do you not believe that salvation and all things that pertain to it and accompany it HAVE BEEN FREELY GIVEN by God. That it is HE and not ourselves that is the source and fountain of everything GOOD that exists?

 

[VCO]

Read again the study, "Justification",post #82,364 with an open mid and you will see how unnecessary and your rant was.Excerpts:

".....Paul says justification is by faith and faith alone.[Romans 3:23-28;Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9] But he also asks,if, after receiving this pardon,should we continue in sin.[Romans 6:1,2] He says no and hence shows there is another part to justification which James speaks of in his statement above and which Paul alludes to in other passages.[Romans 2:13]
The part which man has no control of and can do nothing to gain may be called redemption or reconciliation( Romans 3:24;Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14;Hebrews 9:12,15;Romans 5:10;II Corinthians 5:18-20) and the second area is that which man will do by the power which God has given him, by his submitting to the will of God and living a righteous and holy life.Hence whereas Paul is making clear to the readers at Rome that the reason we have the opportunity to gain eternal life is not by our own doing,he also says, when we have accepted this opportunity by accepting baptism,we are not expected to continue to live in sin,but we must live in a manner which is acceptable to God who gives us the power to do this....."


"......In conclusion,we cannot free ourselves from the curse of the law.Only the death of one who was just could do this great work of reconciliation with God.[Deuteronomy 11:26-29;27: 11-26;28: 15-19;Galatians 3:13;Hebrews 9:15;10:1-10; I Peter 1:18-21;2:24, 25;Romans 3:22,23.]
For neither the blood of bulls and goats(works of the law) nor our good works(works of righteousness) could redeem us from the consequences of sin.[Romans 3:20;Romans 6:23;Ezekiel 20:24,25;Romans 9:31,32;Titus 3:5;Hebrews 10:1-14;Galatians 2:16;3:19,24- 26]
After being redeemed,however, in order to attain the promise of eternal life,which was made possible by the death of Jesus,we must forsake sin and live according to God's laws.[I Peter 1:9-23;Romans 6:1-14;I Corinthians 6:9-11;Titus 3:8;Romans 8:1-8,13;Ezekiel 36:26,27;I Peter 4:1-4;Romans 7;7;3:20b;I John 3:4;I Timothy 1:8;Jeremiah 31:33,34;Exodus 24:12;Hebrews 8:8-13; II Corinthians 3:1-3;Revelation 22:14]
This is how the law/works justifies. As Paul said:
Romans 2:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

If we continue in sin after accepting this gift of grace,we are in danger of facing the wrath of God,however, we still have an advocate who intercedes on our behalf if we have strayed from the path of righteousness. [Hebrews 7:22-25;10:26- 29,38,39; 12:1-17;I John 2:1,2;Psalm 32:1-5,8,10]....."

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.


I have grown TIRED of explaining this Scripture, so Figure it out.

Here is a HINT: What came FIRST?
SALVATION or WALKING IN OBEDIENCE OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM?


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

 

[TruthTalk]

I'm sorry you are unfamiliar with the parable of the Olive tree, Jesus analogy of the good and bad tree, the parable of the Vine, John 15 which I guess is not a tree, but the parable speaks the same principle as my analogy, etc

Again my point is that we have no goodness, virtue, ability to do good, desire to please God, faith to perform, NOTHING that we did not receive from God

Oh, and also that serving God is being shown Divine FAVOUR, which removes ANY thought of Merit in our works

You guys are so shells hocked from works salvationists that you disagree with a man that says it is not part grace, it IS ALL GRACE. And is not Grace defined as unmerited favor or an undeserved gift

I can't believe some of you can't understand this FOUNDATIONAL truth. It must be a result of the easy believism indoctrination.

This here what I am saying is reformed theology. How can you think reformed theology is a works salvation system? Do you and DC think the reformers were false teachers, as I have been accused of. Do you not believe that salvation and all things that pertain to it and accompany it HAVE BEEN FREELY GIVEN by God. That it is HE and not ourselves that is the source and fountain of everything GOOD that exists?

Yes I am familiar with John ch.15, nobody here comes close to easy believism theology and there are no shell shocked believers here.

The only point I can make to you is that works are not a gift from God and the bible does not support your false idea. You are commended for believing that works cannot save.

 

[stonesoffire]

Did you quote the right post?

Where does it say the Spirit is a gift..........by faith, which is the gift, we are born again from above by the Spirit, and the fruit is the by product of the Spirit dwelling is us by faith......

Not sure why you responded the way you did to my post........which did not say anything about the Spirit, gifts and or fruit....???

dcontroversal said:
The context determines the usage of the word......it does not mean repent as we would repent, nor does it indicate a mistake on God's part..........I look at the word and the context in verse 11 to indicate disappointment......not necessarily in what God had done, but rather the failure of SAUL and in verse 29 the context = God has nothing to be sorry for........One thing we cannot do is to bring God down on our level when it comes to the verbiage God uses to get a point across to us........we must view it with a higher application while understanding (or attempting to understand) God's nature and character......

vs 11.
nacham: to be sorry, console oneself
Original Word: נָחַם
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nacham
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-kham')
Definition: to be sorry, console oneself

vs. 29
nacham: to be sorry, console oneself
Original Word: נָחַם
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nacham
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-kham')
Definition: to be sorry, console oneself

You must not of seen my editing Dcon. Was another iPad glitch and I removed your post. Have no idea why this happens.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't understand the reasoning why works would be a gift. For one thing the works are for another's benefit aren't they? Not for us. If you think of the gifts of Holy Spirit like healing and deliverance etc. then that too would be for others. If it's a gift at all it's not for the worker. It's the fruit of our faith in the work of God.

I would call it ministering.

Makes no sense.