Open Theism
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This will be my “last” attempt to clarify your misconceptions.
In Luke there is a quote; “Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
Why would there be joy in Heaven, by so many, if the sinner had no choice to repent to begin with, but was predestined to do so by God?
This is not really a question for you to answer, just a point to ponder, though I’m sure you will wiggle one out. As I said in various ways, a misconception of Gods sovereignty is the real issue here.
Good day
In Luke there is a quote; “Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
Why would there be joy in Heaven, by so many, if the sinner had no choice to repent to begin with, but was predestined to do so by God?
This is not really a question for you to answer, just a point to ponder, though I’m sure you will wiggle one out. As I said in various ways, a misconception of Gods sovereignty is the real issue here.
Good day
Here is John 3:16 AMPC. Notice the words after believes in. More than a simple belief.
John 3 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
John 3 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
It looks to me like open theism
And related or opposing theologies
Are attempts to try to figure out how God deals with time.
We know from the theory of relativity that time relates to physical objects. Time passes at a different rate for two different objects traveling at different speeds relative to each other. Gravity also enters into it somehow.
But God is a spirit, not affected by time, though I think the God will present himself in ways so that we can understand some small part.
So how does God deal with the future? Well, his future or ours?
And related or opposing theologies
Are attempts to try to figure out how God deals with time.
We know from the theory of relativity that time relates to physical objects. Time passes at a different rate for two different objects traveling at different speeds relative to each other. Gravity also enters into it somehow.
But God is a spirit, not affected by time, though I think the God will present himself in ways so that we can understand some small part.
So how does God deal with the future? Well, his future or ours?
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Not really. God knows the end from the beginning. He uses eclipses going east to west across a country to condemn a country. At creation knowing the end from the beginning he set the orbit of the moon to create eclipses at the appropriate time. This in the Bible proves the open theism concept of God not knowing the future. Another proof is all of the prophecies in the Bible that have already come true. For example Tyre was condemned by God them to have enemies come against it like waves on a beach until it was destroyed and fishermen would dry their building blocks thrown in the sea. They were attack several times and then rebuilt their city on the island in the bay.. Along came Alexander the Great and he built a causeway to the island and utterly scraped everything on the island into the sea. Today fishermen still dry their nets on the building blocks of Tyre. How can this and other prophecies come true if God doesn't know the future?
Now you are delving into the Quinquarticular Controversy. Calvinism vs Arminianism. Both take opposing views on this subject and have long files defending each point with scripture references. Between 212 and 500 the elders created creeds defining what a Christian must believe. They stated any Biblical concept outside the creeds was to agree to disagree. The many gospel preaching denominations and independent churches are proof of this!! Disagreements outside of the creeds is what divides them. The Quinquarticular Controversy is one of these. Calvinism says God will reach in and cause a person to become a Christian while Armenianism says people will come to believe by themselves. The verse in KJV stating the carnal mind is enmity against God is the dividing verse.
I'm glad I'm neither.
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Arminian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Arminianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Arminianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
that's my impression too, especially after listening to over 2 dozen sermons / teaching seminars on the subject from as many different preachers / teachers. particularly, trying to balance or reconcile predestination & omniscience with free will and/or agency. i think that predominantly, open theism tends toward giving more weight to human will ((for a variety of reasons)), taking for granted a certain autonomy of mankind to influence and bring about present & future events or states of being ((individual salvation being the foremost, in an Arminian sense, though open theism isn't singularly Arminian, it being believed by 'reformed' theologians as well)), and from that standpoint, somewhat axiomatically, seeking a theological understanding of God's will, knowledge and action among men that accommodates this 'free agency'
in that sense it seems more 'human-centric' than 'God-centric' approach to sorting out how God & man & time are related to one another.
the big problem i see in all this is the presumption that God, like us in the way we experience existence, is bound within time. i don't believe this is the case. i believe time itself is a creation of God, not a 'higher order' of metaphysical reality within which God is in any way constrained. i believe that God, if He so willed it, could 'change the past' with equal fidelity that He ordains/foreknows the future. in my mind, i have to believe this, because if it were otherwise, there is something ((time, in this case, in an abstract sense)) which is sovereign over Him: in which case, He is not God, because ((i believe)) an incontrovertible quality of God is that He is God over all things
in that sense it seems more 'human-centric' than 'God-centric' approach to sorting out how God & man & time are related to one another.
the big problem i see in all this is the presumption that God, like us in the way we experience existence, is bound within time. i don't believe this is the case. i believe time itself is a creation of God, not a 'higher order' of metaphysical reality within which God is in any way constrained. i believe that God, if He so willed it, could 'change the past' with equal fidelity that He ordains/foreknows the future. in my mind, i have to believe this, because if it were otherwise, there is something ((time, in this case, in an abstract sense)) which is sovereign over Him: in which case, He is not God, because ((i believe)) an incontrovertible quality of God is that He is God over all things
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The Bible states in various ways, in the Old & New Testament, that we have “limited” understanding when it comes to God.
God is repeatedly described as “sovereign,” yet we are apparently held accountable for our thoughts, words and deeds.
These two things seem in opposition and man has and will struggle to reconcile these seemingly contradictory thoughts.
My view is that it is among the greatest of mysteries that will be revealed to those who one day will see Him as He is, and not through fallen eyes.
God is repeatedly described as “sovereign,” yet we are apparently held accountable for our thoughts, words and deeds.
These two things seem in opposition and man has and will struggle to reconcile these seemingly contradictory thoughts.
My view is that it is among the greatest of mysteries that will be revealed to those who one day will see Him as He is, and not through fallen eyes.
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