The Gospel Of Israel

[Noblemen]

Written by Erwin Redinger


Some people preach two gospels, one for the Jews and one for. The Gentiles. They believe the Jews. are the chosen people of God and. Therefore must be handled differently from the Gentiles. When a Jew gets converted to Christ, they put him on a pedestal, and one gets the impression that they stand in awe before such a one; whereas, when a Gentile gets converted he just becomes an ordinary believer
in Christ.
Some of the Jewish believers help this understanding along when they call themselves Messianic Jews and not Christians.

By doing this they don’t identify with their fellow believers who come from a Gentile background, but they separate themselves as something apart from the Church.
This is a sad state of affairs.
Already there’s so much confusion
in the world as to who and what the
Church is, and this only adds to the confusion. It so happens that all the New Testament writers were Jews, with the exception of maybe Luke, who could have been Greek.


All these New Testament writers brought the truth of the Gospel, namely, that in Christ there is no difference. Anyone declaring that there is a difference, is contradicting what the whole of the New Testament is about. When one makes
a sharp and distinct difference between the Church and the Jews, one moves from a wrong premise, and one is bound to get lost and be tied up in all kinds of speculations and conjectures.

1. To say that Israel was before the Church is to have misunderstood the mystery of God. (Rom. 16:25,
26; Eph. 1: 9, 10; Eph. 3:9, 10; Col.
1:20-26; Col. 2:1-4; Col. 4:3; 1 Tim.
3:9; 1 Tim. 3:16.)

2. When God called Abraham He had the Church in mind. (Gen.
12:4; Gen. 17:5; Gen. 18:18; Gen.
22:18; Gen. 26:4; Gen. 28:14.)

3. Even the prophets of old longed to see and look into the mystery of God, the Church, for they only saw glimpses of it here and there. (Matt. 13:16-17.)

4. There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. (Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 7:19; Col. 3:11; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 2:14-21; Eph. 3:6; Eph. 4:4-16; Jn. 17:20-21; Rom. 2:28-29; Eph. 2:11; Rom. 9:6-8; Rom. 9:24-26, 1 Cor. 1:22-24,
Acts 10:34-35; Heb. 11:39-40; Heb. 12:22-29; Rev. 2:9; Rev. 3:9; Rev. 3:21-25.)

5. The Church is the fullness of Him who fills all and in all him.
(Eph. 1:23.)

6. And the Church was in God’s heart before the foundation of the world, and was meant for His Son.
(Matt. 13:35; Matt. 25:34; Jn. 17:24; Eph. 1:4; Heb. 4:3; Heb. 9:26; 1 Peter 1:20, Rev. 13:8; Rev. 17:8.)
There is therefore no room for a
“replacement theology,” like some people teach, that the Church has replaced Israel. What God had in mind all the time is coming to pass, and will consummate in the New Jerusalem. The twelve names of the Patriarch’s on the gates represent
Israel and the names of the twelve apostles on the foundation stone represent the Church.

So the whole thing will be what Christ said it will be, namely, one fold and one Shepherd, consisting of Jews and Gentiles, and how powerfully and convincingly these things are stated in the Bible.
In Christ
1. There is neither Jew nor Gentile.
(Gal. 3:28; Jn. 17:21-23; Col. 3:1.)

2. Apart from Christ there is no
salvation, whether you lived in the Old Testament times or the New
Testament times. The efficacy of His work on the cross reaches right back to Adam (Acts 4: 12). We must get this clear, the Law saves no one (Rom. 2:16; Rom.3:20; Titus 3:9.)

3. Holding on to genealogies and statutes of the Law hinders one from knowing Christ. (Phil. 3:7-9.)

4. God broke down the middle wall of partition, so let us not to build it up again. (Eph. 2:4.)

5. We are chosen all of us, before the foundation of the world and that includes Abraham and his descendants. (Eph. 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20; Rev.17:8.)

6. To say the word “saint” in Paul’s letters refers to the Christians and then, in Revelation it suddenly refers to the Jews only, is saying the Bible is not consistent.

7. My question is, if Israel is set apart from the Church, what are they then? If someone ventures to say they are the kingdom of God, then I venture to ask, “Is the kingdom of God not part of the Church, and is the Church not part of the
kingdom of God?” Jesus preached the kingdom. He said to Nicodemus, “Unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God.” So you need to be born again to be part of the kingdom, and you
need to be born again to be part of the Church. And that applies to both Jews and Gentiles. (Rom 2:28-29; Rom. 3:9; Rom 4:16; Rom 9:6-8; Rom. 9:24-33; Rom. 10:12-13.)

 

[John146]

Is this another RCC John Calvin thread?

Do you believe that God has given specific promises to the physical nation of Israel, most to be realized in the future?

 

[Deade]

Is this another RCC John Calvin thread?

Do you believe that God has given specific promises to the physical nation of Israel, most to be realized in the future?

Well, some completely dismiss the physical promises to Abraham toward his descendants. Once the Kingdom is set up we will have a better understanding how it all fits. We err, when we insist we must interpret all scripture upon reading it. God is doing things we may not know about. I am fine with that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is one gospel, has been one since adam and eve.

Isreal must repent and trust god just like we do.

Isreal as a natin being good as people has never determined the salvation of one soul

 

[WalkingTree]

Some of the Jewish believers help this understanding along when they call themselves Messianic Jews and not Christians.

By doing this they don’t identify with their fellow believers who come from a Gentile background, but they separate themselves as something apart from the Church.

Quite simply the opposite. The self proclaimed Church has separated themselves as something apart from Israel.

Messianic Jews seemingly can not enter into apologetics with Christians without being confronted by replacement theology, or supersessionism. The doctrine of supersessionism holds that the New Testament church permanently replaces or supersedes national Israel as the people of God.

Got Questions.org has a classic description of what replacement theology teaches here:

Replacement Theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?

Messianic Jews are the antithesis of supersessionists, we are restorationists. We believe in the restoration of Israel as promised in both the old and new testaments.

 

[WalkingTree]

The following 4 points display the inconsistencies with supersessionism:

◾Has Israel been rejected? Does Matthew 21:43 indicate the kingdom of God was taken from the nation Israel and given to the New Testament church? And does this indicate a change in the people of God from national Israel to the church?

Matt 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

No! The New Testament reaffirms a future restoration of national Israel. This is what Yeshua taught in Matthew 19:28 and what the apostles clearly believed in Acts 1:6-7. Paul also explicitly taught a national salvation and restoration of Israel in Rom 11:25-27.

Yeshua taught that when he is sitting on the throne in the new world, all twelves tribes of Israel would be present to be judged. And the apostles clearly believed the restoration of national Israel was inextricably tied to the coming of Messiah. But, Yeshua did not negate the restoration with his response. He in fact confirms it, when he said; “It’s not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has fixed…” He didn’t teach them that national Israel was about to be removed from the earth forever. He taught them that the Father has a fixed time and season for the restoration of Israel. And Paul said it was a mystery, that a partial hardening has come upon Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Paul teaches Yeshua, The Deliverer will come from Zion and take away the sin and ungodliness from Israel. He says after rejecting the Messiah Israel would be healed, cleaned, and glorified.

In these ways, the New Testament reaffirms the future restoration of national Israel.

 

[WalkingTree]

◾Is the Church the new Israel? Does Galatians 6:15-16 identify the church as Israel? Do texts such as Rom 2:28–29 and 1 Pet 2:9–10 apply Israel’s imagery to the church? Identifying the church as the new Israel?

Galatians 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The Church and Israel are distinct entities Of the 73 references to “Israel” in the NT, not one identify the church as Israel. The “Israel of God” reference in Gal 6:15-16 is referring to Jewish believers. The rule was equity in God, not being superseded by the church. In Romans 2, Paul does not teach no one is a Jew any longer. He says no one is a Jew -who is merely one outwardly- This does not imply that Jews are no longer, but that being one is not merely an outward show of obedience to Torah. Notice he then states, “But a Jew is – one inwardly. He’s not saying anyone can be Jewish by the indwelling of the Spirit. Nor is he teaching that no one is a Jew any longer. He’s saying everyone must experience God within the heart. Both Gentiles AND Jews. Other passages like 1 Pet 2:9-10 show similarities between Israel and the church, but similarity does not mean he was teaching Israel was replaced by the church.

 

[WalkingTree]

◾Does our equality rule out any restoration of Israel? — Since Jews and Gentiles are now united, do Jews lose their identity? Do texts like Eph 2:11–22 and Rom 11:17–24 teach there is no special identity or role for national Israel?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands– 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

No! Our equality does not negate Israel’s identity nor rule out Israel’s restoration. When it comes to salvation believing Jews and Gentiles are equal. This unity and equality, however, does not rule out historical and functional distinctions between the groups. Nor does it mean that there cannot be a distinct role for national Israel in the future. Both have never been taught by Yeshua nor his disciples. The texts of Eph 2:11-22 and Rom 11:17-24 are not examples of Israel being superseded by the church. They are indicating our unity and our equity in regards to God’s blessings, love and promises of salvation. But, our equality in Messiah does not remove Israel’s identity, any more than it would make Gentiles Jewish. It’s Jew AND Gentile, not Jews THEN Gentiles!! Israel will be grafted back into their own tree! Of which Gentiles have been grafted into. He didn’t make a new tree, he restored the existing one.

 

[WalkingTree]

◾Does the church inherit the New Covenant? — If Heb 8:8-13 says Gentiles are participating in the New Covenant made with Israel, does this mean the church has become the new Israel since it is experiencing the fulfillment of the covenant.

Hebrews 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says:”Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

No! Hebrews 8:8-13 has a present fulfillment/application with the church; but, Romans 11:27 states there will also be a future fulfillment of the covenant with national Israel in the future. So when it comes to the New Covenant, the fulfillment is “both/and.” It is for both Israel and the church. One does not supersede the other. Both unite as one, respecting the other, in love.

 

[WalkingTree]

The prophets speak of the return of the remnant of Israel. And in those texts, the return of the King and the connection to the new covenant are inextricably linked.

The King would return and re-gather his people to his Kingdom. As the nations of the world understand and believe in this miracle, they too would come into His Kingdom, as gentiles, to receive the blessings offered them. All be it, after much disaster and destruction (purification). Just like Israel is going through, so too the nations of the world are going through this consecration. All be it through different means, but to the same goal.

After God purifies Israel he purifies the nations. Another way to look at it is, after Israel is consecrated to God the nations will be consecrated to Him as well. And in the end, all will worship the King of Glory in his resting place. Both Israel and the nations will honor God and dwell in union with Him forever. In fact, through God redeeming his people Israel the nations will turn to Him and give him glory as well.

So the big picture is a dance of humility and love. God forms and chooses Israel, who in turn rejects him and becomes not his people, and are scattered into all the nations. The one who scattered them into the nations is the very same one who gathers them out of the nations. In fact, the scattering precipitated the gathering. By coming as the Way the Truth and the Life, he scatters the rebellious into the shadows, and draws the faithful at the same time into the light by his very presence.

This is where we stand today. The seed of Abraham has been scattered throughout the world, so as to produce fruit a hundred-fold. While in the nations God is providing a sanctuary here in the wilderness, His Spirit. The Spirit that the One who scattered us offered to us before the scattering. If we believed.

And very soon, we pray, God will restore us to our place in his heart and his Kingdom. When this happens the nations will marvel and believe in God. Because he restored his children to his Kingdom.


The King returned along with the remnant of his people to his Land. Why would anyone try to rewrite this love story told by God himself?

 

[WalkingTree]

Israel has a place and purpose God’s Kingdom ‘alongside’ the nations of the world. These and many other scriptures show overwhelmingly that Israel is dealt with in a different manner than the nations of the world. Israel is redeemed out of the nations in glory to God, and the nations are saved through Israel glorifying God through Yeshua in this way.

The nations will know God when through Israel Yeshua is glorified. When Israel is redeemed as a nation of people through Yeshua, the nations of the world will bow down and glorify Yeshua.

Both Jew and Gentile are One in Messiah!! Both indwelt with the Spirit of God, being cleansed, forgiven and made holy to God alongside each other. Not being made into one another, becoming the other, or replacing the other. But both receive eternal life when they accept who they are ‘individually’ in Messiah.

When Yeshua the King returns he will gather the remnant of Israel and rule over her in the Land promised to her. She will be cleaned and made pure, and all the nations of the world will come and worship Yeshua in Israel. Learning the ways and paths of God. As his instructions go forth out of Zion. Yeshua the King will return and establish the remnant of Israel and rule the nations from Mt. Zion.

“I in them and you in I” Yeshua the King dwells in the remnant of Israel, as the Father dwells within Yeshua, and many gentiles will come and say ‘teach us about your ways, and we will walk your paths. And Yeshua the King will teach them, judge them and arbitrate for them, as he rules Israel from Mount Zion, forever.

Praise Yeshua and the return of the King who gathers the remnant of Israel from the world and places her in the Promised Land, causing the nations to know God through them glorifying Yeshua.

Praise Yeshua the King who bestows eternal life to both Israel and those who believe in what God has done through Yeshua with Israel.

Praise the King of Glory, the King of Israel, and the world!

Amos 9:11(TLV)

David’s Sukkah Restored

11 “In that day I will raise up David’s fallen sukkah.
I will restore its breaches,
raise up its ruins,
and rebuild it as in days of old
12 —so they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations called by My Name.”

It is a declaration of ADONAI, the One who will do this.
13 “Behold, days are soon coming”
—it is a declaration of ADONAI—
“when the plowman will overtake the reaper
and the one treading grapes, the one sowing seed.
The mountains will drip sweet wine
and all the hills will melt over.

14 Yes, I will restore the captivity of My people Israel.
They will rebuild desolated cities and dwell in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine.
They will also make gardens and eat their fruit.

15 Yes, I will plant them on their land,
and they will never again be plucked up
out of their land that I have given to them.”
ADONAI, your God, has said it.

 

[Lanolin]

Maybe the confusion stems from the name messianic jews.
Shouldnt they just be Hebrew Christians?
Most christians dont even call themselves gentiles christians. i had no idea what a gentile was until read the Bible but I think its true there is a bit of difference of cultures and languages but language ought not to be a barrier anymore. Which is why God gave us tongues. He also gave Peter a vision of the animals in a blanket, that both jew and gentile in Christ can now eat together...and when Paul was writing to Galatians he was telling everyone not to judge people if they did not observe the sabbath and circumcision. There are a few other differences but God really got the jewish believers at the time to break down those barriers after all Paul, a Pharisee got converted and became apostle to the gentiles. He lived and ate among people who werent his own kind.

I do think because of them seeing themselves as Gods chosen people one thinks they are special after all God had promised them the land and not anyone else, but since Jesus will bring salvation for all of mankind especially gentiles its said in the Bible to provoke the jews to jealousy. But the gospel was sent to the jews first, but since not all believed..the gentiles get to come into the kingdom as well. It could have just stayed within israel but it didnt. And this is Gods plan for ALL to come to know Him.

 

[WalkingTree]

do think because of them seeing themselves as Gods chosen people one thinks they are special after all God had promised them the land and not anyone else, but since Jesus will bring salvation for all of mankind especially gentiles its said in the Bible to provoke the jews to jealousy. But the gospel was sent to the jews first, but since not all believed..the gentiles get to come into the kingdom as well. It could have just stayed within israel but it didnt. And this is Gods plan for ALL to come to know Him.

This appears like you think God didn't know what would happen and had to adjust the plan by adding the nations into Israel's blessings. But the nations coming to God through Israel was the plan all along. Israel was pruned, and room made for grafting. Not into Israel but the Tree of Life. Did God not know Israel would act the way she did? Of course he did. He planned it from the beginning. He formed Israel in the womb before she was born, with full intent to bring the salivation of the nations through her. Never was Israel regarded as afterbirth to be discarded. Never was Israel referred to as nailed to the cross and cast away for the sins of the world. Unless she repent?? To repent means to return. What are we to return to in the self described church of today? A place that rejects our very existence as opposed to how God declares us.

The savior of the world was a Jew who came through Israel. He was/is the King the prophets given Israel foretold of. He comes to reconcile the world to himself, not to cast out that which was his beloved only to claim another. This completely misrepresents Hosea. God does not reject those who he calls, and Israel is called 'alongside' the nations in regards to the righteousness that comes through the Spirit. Paul himself speaks to NOT boast against the 'natural' branches. He lifts up both Jews and Gentiles. Jew AND, not Jews THEN Gentiles...