Praying in Tongues

[Hevosmies]

Why, then, does I Corinthians 13 say that tongues will cease when that which is perfect (God's written word) comes? If God has already given us his word on the subject, then that is all there is to it.

Perfect is a reference to Christ there, not the Bible.

Do you believe that knowledge has ceased? Daniel says knowledge will INCREASE in the last days...

Go look up some commentators of the past, even John Gill doesnt agree with the cessationist interpretation! Nobody in the 1st century would of understood that to be talking about the Bible. They didnt even KNOW what a book was! Nobody had the Bible like we do until VERY recently, and even in the 1600s when books were available, MANY couldnt read! So the Bible would do no good to a bunch of illiterate country folks! God bless their souls. ANd praise the MOST HIGH, we dont need to be LITERATE to be saved!

The Bible is here, but we STILL have division, strife, wickedness, sin, FAR from perfection.

Things wont get better until Jesus returns. Thats a FACT!

Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Dino246]

Why, then, does I Corinthians 13 say that tongues will cease when that which is perfect (God's written word) comes? If God has already given us his word on the subject, then that is all there is to it.

1 Corinthians 13 doesn’t say that “the perfect” is God’s written word.

 

[cdmeyer]

1 Corinthians 13 doesn’t say that “the perfect” is God’s written word.

It doesn't not say it either...

 

[Dino246]

Speaking in tongues is not praying in the spirit - you have no idea what a spirit is and you also don't know what a prayer is.

Your arrogance has exceeded your intelligence. There is no need for this kind of derision. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't know something.

The spirit is the mind and a prayer is a need.

You're disagreeing with Scripture. Paul says "If I pray with my spirit, then my mind is unfruitful" therefore the mind and the spirit cannot be the same thing. An unexpressed need is not a prayer; Jesus said, "You have not because you ask not".

Saying that speaking in tongues is praying in spirit (mind) is an oxymoron.
3. Anything that is in your mind is what we call understanding, even if it is falsehood. Praying in the spirit only means understanding and has nothing to do with any muscles.

Again, your view is not in line with Scripture.

There's no verse that forbids tongues but a whole chapter (1 Cor 14) forbids gibberish.

What version are you using? Mine doesn't mention gibberish at all. It just discusses languages foreign to the hearer(s).

 

[Dino246]

It doesn't not say it either...

Fallacy: argument from silence. Invalid.

 

[notuptome]

Perfect is a reference to Christ there, not the Bible.

Do you believe that knowledge has ceased? Daniel says knowledge will INCREASE in the last days...

Go look up some commentators of the past, even John Gill doesnt agree with the cessationist interpretation! Nobody in the 1st century would of understood that to be talking about the Bible. They didnt even KNOW what a book was! Nobody had the Bible like we do until VERY recently, and even in the 1600s when books were available, MANY couldnt read! So the Bible would do no good to a bunch of illiterate country folks! God bless their souls. ANd praise the MOST HIGH, we dont need to be LITERATE to be saved!

The Bible is here, but we STILL have division, strife, wickedness, sin, FAR from perfection.

Things wont get better until Jesus returns. Thats a FACT!

Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Perfect means complete in verse 3 1 Cor 13. Jesus had already been here so the text does not say when the Perfect One returns.

Knowledge as in where fishermen have a greater knowledge of the scriptures than those who were schooled for many years on the subject certainly has ceased.

We are not looking for a perfect world here in this earth but in the new earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Perfect means complete in verse 3 1 Cor 13. Jesus had already been here so the text does not say when the Perfect One returns.

Knowledge as in where fishermen have a greater knowledge of the scriptures than those who were schooled for many years on the subject certainly has ceased.

We are not looking for a perfect world here in this earth but in the new earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't agree with your points, but you seem to be agreeing that "the perfect" has not yet come. Is that your position?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Noose, post: 3842991, member: 238750"]1. I never said people should not pray in private

Noose you are not a very honest person. you said this: 1 Cor 14 gives details of how to use tongues to edify others and any gift that edifies others was not to be forbidden but Paul himself in that very chapter was forbidding something- it is called self edification, there's no love in it because other people are not benefiting.

you have had the word edify explained to you multiple times now so there is no excuse for continuing and deliberate twisting the meaning...you say English is not your first language and that may be, however us first language is English people here have disagreed with your bogus interpretation and straightened you out.

do you actually think anyone is being fooled by what you do? even someone who does believe in the gifts knows the actual meaning, so your ruse serves no purpose other than to illustrate your disdain for the subject matter of the thread as well as your apparent disdain for those of us who patiently bear with your nonsense...for the sake of others reading at this point

so while you now say you never said people should not pray in private...you have stated numerous times there is no such thing as praying in tongues...YET the op is about that very thing. and your emphasis seems to be on accusing people of making a show...however praying in tongues should be done quietly and in order as per scripture

2. Speaking in tongues is not praying in the spirit - and no one said that it was so why are you? praying in tongues is praying in the spirit OR being led to pray by the Holy Spirit with an anointing you would not have if not being led

you have no idea what a spirit is and you also don't know what a prayer is.
well that is an accusation straight from the devil. you need to repent and sanctify your mouth because it is not godly and is actually harming you and will harm anyone who accepts your gibberish. both God's words and the devil's words have power and you are choosing the wrong side

The spirit is the mind and a prayer is a need.
Jesus resurrected did not present a mind with no body. consult scripture.
illustrate that from scripture if you can. I will grant you that many people will only pray when they have a need, but this girl understands there are different kinds of prayer and prayer is basically communication with God. consult your Bible . at this point you are doing God a disservice (more than usual) and it is obvious you have a very dull prayer life.

Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints. Ephesians 6:18


You can choose to make known your needs by speaking (using an organ called a tongue in your mouth) and this should be directed to those that have ears. A prayer to God is not necessarily spoken, God searches the heart/spirit of a man and He knows your needs before you even speak out.
here you are being slyly sarcastic, which you will deny, but as you say, God knows what is in the heart and mind you walk around with and when you create these caustic posts. He knows. He's got it.

Saying that speaking in tongues is praying in spirit (mind) is an oxymoron.
you cannot evade the truth that you are simply unlearned when it comes to things of God.

3. Anything that is in your mind is what we call understanding, even if it is falsehood. Praying in the spirit only means understanding and has nothing to do with any muscles.
you cannot evade the truth that you are simply unlearned when it comes to things of God.

There's no verse that forbids tongues but a whole chapter (1 Cor 14) forbids gibberish.
well, gibberish is your label for what God gives by His Spirit. how people use it may give a bad impression, but no worse then how little you convey the truth that you do not know nor do you understand the truth

 

[Noose]

You're disagreeing with Scripture. Paul says "If I pray with my spirit, then my mind is unfruitful" therefore the mind and the spirit cannot be the same thing. An unexpressed need is not a prayer; Jesus said, "You have not because you ask not".

You don't understand what Paul is saying. It is not a different opinion, you just don't get it.

1 Cor 14:13For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Speaking (using your tongue) is transferring your understanding (whatever is in your mind) to others around you who have ears (recipients). Speaking meaningless words to others is fruitless because you will not be able to transfer your understanding to them.

The spirit is the mind:
Rom 11:34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?”
Isaiah 40:13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or informed Him as His counselor?
1 Corinthians 2:16"For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
All these verses mean the same thing.

A prayer is a need or a wish in English.

Matt 6:7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard.8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

[/QUOTE]

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Simple. If works are; healing the blind and deaf/ healing the lepers/ driving out demons/ raising the dead/ many many miracles
Greater works must be; healing the blind and deaf/ healing the lepers/ driving out demons/ raising the dead/ many miracles on a bigger scale.

What it can't be is speaking gibberish and hiding behind Greek to redefine 'greater' and is certainly not preaching the gospel.

you apparently cannot answer a simple question

what are the GREATER works

not the same as...Jesus said GREATER..you are referring to the SAME works Jesus did. that is not what Jesus said. He did not same the SAME

He said GREATER

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

now we already know you do not believe anyone is healed or raised from the dead or anything else you do not do yourself so just deal with what Jesus said when using the word GREATER. and if you have no clue, just say so you have no clue.

nothing about tongues there so calm down and try to answer

the key word is GREATER G.....R....E...A....T....E...R

 

[Noose]

you apparently cannot answer a simple question

what are the GREATER works

not the same as...Jesus said GREATER..you are referring to the SAME works Jesus did. that is not what Jesus said. He did not same the SAME

He said GREATER

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

now we already know you do not believe anyone is healed or raised from the dead or anything else you do not do yourself so just deal with what Jesus said when using the word GREATER. and if you have no clue, just say so you have no clue.

nothing about tongues there so calm down and try to answer

the key word is GREATER G.....R....E...A....T....E...R

Apparently, you can't understand simple answers, go back to my answers and reread them and greater works can not be reduced to speaking meaningless words and is certainly not preaching.

 

[notuptome]

I don't agree with your points, but you seem to be agreeing that "the perfect" has not yet come. Is that your position?

Of course you don't as your argument would have no legs if you did. The bible is complete as written. Jesus was already here and left to return at the end of the age.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

you apparently cannot answer a simple question

what are the GREATER works

not the same as...Jesus said GREATER..you are referring to the SAME works Jesus did. that is not what Jesus said. He did not same the SAME

He said GREATER

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

now we already know you do not believe anyone is healed or raised from the dead or anything else you do not do yourself so just deal with what Jesus said when using the word GREATER. and if you have no clue, just say so you have no clue.

nothing about tongues there so calm down and try to answer

the key word is GREATER G.....R....E...A....T....E...R

If you have a list of these greater works please help us poor folks who do not know the greater works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TheLearner]

Perfect is a reference to Christ there, not the Bible.

Do you believe that knowledge has ceased? Daniel says knowledge will INCREASE in the last days...

Go look up some commentators of the past, even John Gill doesnt agree with the cessationist interpretation! Nobody in the 1st century would of understood that to be talking about the Bible. They didnt even KNOW what a book was! Nobody had the Bible like we do until VERY recently, and even in the 1600s when books were available, MANY couldnt read! So the Bible would do no good to a bunch of illiterate country folks! God bless their souls. ANd praise the MOST HIGH, we dont need to be LITERATE to be saved!

The Bible is here, but we STILL have division, strife, wickedness, sin, FAR from perfection.

Things wont get better until Jesus returns. Thats a FACT!

Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

"
Reply to Objection 1. The Lord reveals to the prophets all things that are necessary for the instruction of the faithful; yet not all to every one, but some to one, and some to another.

Reply to Objection 2. Prophecy is by way of being something imperfect in the genus of Divine revelation: hence it is written (1 Corinthians 13:8) that "prophecies shall be made void," and that "we prophesy in part," i.e. imperfectly. The Divine revelation will be brought to its perfection in heaven; wherefore the same text continues (1 Corinthians 13:10): "When that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away." Consequently it does not follow that nothing is lacking to prophetic revelation, but that it lacks none of those things to which prophecy is directed."http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3171.htm

 

[TheLearner]

Your arrogance has exceeded your intelligence. There is no need for this kind of derision. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't know something.


You're disagreeing with Scripture. Paul says "If I pray with my spirit, then my mind is unfruitful" therefore the mind and the spirit cannot be the same thing. An unexpressed need is not a prayer; Jesus said, "You have not because you ask not".


Again, your view is not in line with Scripture.


What version are you using? Mine doesn't mention gibberish at all. It just discusses languages foreign to the hearer(s).

Our interpretations of Scripture are not infallible, therefore those are not Scripture itself. The disagreements are about each one's personal understanding of Scripture, not the Scripture itself.

 

[Noose]

"Noose, post: 3842991, member: 238750"]1. I never said people should not pray in private

Noose you are not a very honest person. you said this: 1 Cor 14 gives details of how to use tongues to edify others and any gift that edifies others was not to be forbidden but Paul himself in that very chapter was forbidding something- it is called self edification, there's no love in it because other people are not benefiting.

you have had the word edify explained to you multiple times now so there is no excuse for continuing and deliberate twisting the meaning...you say English is not your first language and that may be, however us first language is English people here have disagreed with your bogus interpretation and straightened you out.

do you actually think anyone is being fooled by what you do? even someone who does believe in the gifts knows the actual meaning, so your ruse serves no purpose other than to illustrate your disdain for the subject matter of the thread as well as your apparent disdain for those of us who patiently bear with your nonsense...for the sake of others reading at this point

so while you now say you never said people should not pray in private...you have stated numerous times there is no such thing as praying in tongues...YET the op is about that very thing. and your emphasis seems to be on accusing people of making a show...however praying in tongues should be done quietly and in order as per scripture

2. Speaking in tongues is not praying in the spirit - and no one said that it was so why are you? praying in tongues is praying in the spirit OR being led to pray by the Holy Spirit with an anointing you would not have if not being led

you have no idea what a spirit is and you also don't know what a prayer is.
well that is an accusation straight from the devil. you need to repent and sanctify your mouth because it is not godly and is actually harming you and will harm anyone who accepts your gibberish. both God's words and the devil's words have power and you are choosing the wrong side

The spirit is the mind and a prayer is a need.
Jesus resurrected did not present a mind with no body. consult scripture.
illustrate that from scripture if you can. I will grant you that many people will only pray when they have a need, but this girl understands there are different kinds of prayer and prayer is basically communication with God. consult your Bible . at this point you are doing God a disservice (more than usual) and it is obvious you have a very dull prayer life.

Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints. Ephesians 6:18


You can choose to make known your needs by speaking (using an organ called a tongue in your mouth) and this should be directed to those that have ears. A prayer to God is not necessarily spoken, God searches the heart/spirit of a man and He knows your needs before you even speak out.
here you are being slyly sarcastic, which you will deny, but as you say, God knows what is in the heart and mind you walk around with and when you create these caustic posts. He knows. He's got it.

Saying that speaking in tongues is praying in spirit (mind) is an oxymoron.
you cannot evade the truth that you are simply unlearned when it comes to things of God.

3. Anything that is in your mind is what we call understanding, even if it is falsehood. Praying in the spirit only means understanding and has nothing to do with any muscles.
you cannot evade the truth that you are simply unlearned when it comes to things of God.

There's no verse that forbids tongues but a whole chapter (1 Cor 14) forbids gibberish.
well, gibberish is your label for what God gives by His Spirit. how people use it may give a bad impression, but no worse then how little you convey the truth that you do not know nor do you understand the truth

Why do you write all these? to be honest, i can't read all these.

What's your point? Prayer is a need/wish (basic English/dictionary) and spirit is a mind (bible). Pray without ceasing or pray at all times doesn't mean babble all day, it means hunger for the spiritual things (truth) at all times.
There are many disabled people who can not speak, can they pray and be heard by God or they'll just end up in hell?

Prayer is a need and God knew that need before He created the heavens and earth.

 

[CS1]

Of course you don't as your argument would have no legs if you did. The bible is complete as written. Jesus was already here and left to return at the end of the age.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

and guess what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be with us until the end. And so will The Gifts of the Holy Spirit. I may not always have the written word to look at but the Holy Spirit is with always and HE bring into remembrance all that Jesus said.

 

[CS1]

If you have a list of these greater works please help us poor folks who do not know the greater works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you were given the understanding but clearly, you are still suffering from CRTWOG can't remember the word of God. And no one here called you poor, unlearned but not poor. Why don't you explain what you think it means; how about that?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Apparently, you can't understand simple answers, go back to my answers and reread them and greater works can not be reduced to speaking meaningless words and is certainly not preaching.

well that's what I said to you. you cannot comprehend simple questions, the case in point being you cannot explain the words Jesus used when He said GREATER works

you don't have an answer so you do the usual attempt at deflecting

the only meaningless words are yours.

now you bring up preaching. I think you find yourself in a maze and can't get out

it's a shame you cannot put all this effort into actually understanding what scripture states instead of making things up

 

[notuptome]

and guess what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be with us until the end. And so will The Gifts of the Holy Spirit. I may not always have the written word to look at but the Holy Spirit is with always and HE bring into remembrance all that Jesus said.

Commit the word of God to memory per the scriptures.

Ps 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

When we do not rely on Gods word the result is always the same.

Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

For the cause of Christ
Roger