Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is neither "obtained" or "maintained" by works.

In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works. Don't put the cart before the horse.

What is THE END OF OUR FAITH??
Salvation....you agree in your first paragraph.
At the END of our faith...we receive salvation.
Because we can become lost again before we die.

Paul's job is not to transform lives....this was Jesus' job.
Paul only continued what Jesus began.
You like those past tenses....what about the PRESENT TENSESE?
BELIEVE,,,,now, present tense, is salvation.
NOT a belief in the past.
Bye.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes, we have discussed 2 Peter 2:20-22 before and as long as you continue to disregard the Greek "corruption" - Strongs #5356 and "pollutions" - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) then we have nothing left to discuss.

What does that have to do with anything?
The meaning of corruption and polluòtion can be found in ANY dictionary.
The Strong's Greek lexicon, which you so love, makes no difference to what the verses mean.

Does a born again life have corruption and polution?
NO.
When those that were believers turned BACK TO THE WORLD'S FILTH, as they were in BEFORE SALVATION....etc.
Bye.

 

[Macabeus]

What does that have to do with anything?
The meaning of corruption and polluòtion can be found in ANY dictionary.
The Strong's Greek lexicon, which you so love, makes no difference to what the verses mean.

Does a born again life have corruption and polution?
NO.
When those that were believers turned BACK TO THE WORLD'S FILTH, as they were in BEFORE SALVATION....etc.
Bye.

But for those who are believing (present tense) such an action is unthinkable.

We have to become somehow hardened for that to happen.

And when it does, God will chastise us as sons.

This is why, even though salvation is secure in Christ, we need to be dilligent. Not to avoid losing our salvation, but because we want to glorify God in our body and spirit which are HIS. And drifting or floating on a lily pad is not glorifying God.

And is a faith that only existed in the past and does not continue true faith?

So faith IS the only condition, but faith is never alone

 

[GodsGrace101]

@stillness
@Argueless
@justpassinthrough


I'm tagging you because I was asked to when I decided to leave here.
I am now leaving this thread.

It's of no use and for those reading along, they'll have to pray and learn to understand the bible.

@TruthTalk is asked questions which he does not answer, because he cannot, and posts images of watches instead.
He tells me to "shut up". I answer that he should tell his wife to shut up and not ME. He replies that the verse he posted was speaking of a WOMAN and not a WIFE. So I guess HIS wife must be a man.
Again...showing no understanding of plain conversation.

@dcontroversal insists he posts scripture when it is plain to all who care to have eyes that he does not.
A disagreeing member is a liar and is dishonest.
Again...showing no understanding of biblical language or plain English.

@UnderGrace is very good at making remarks but also does not answer a serious question, as in my post no. 83,487.
Again....shows no understanding of the bible.

@blue_ladybug and @Budman have clearly stated that it is not necessary to obey God and Budman has said that he could sin all he wants to because all it takes to be saved is to "believe" in Jesus -- whatever that means to him.
Again...shows no understanding of the bible.

@mailmandan posts scripture and has answers but he loves his Greek and can't seem to understand simple English. As if only those who know Greek could know what God desires from them.
Again....no understanding of the bible.


So, I DO believe it's time to leave.
I leave posting the following:
A non-believer, BTW, is anyone who does not believe what Jesus taught.




2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
(those who obey God are unequally yoked with those who do not)


Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Sounds like Jesus desires us to be righteous...and yet those here say it is as filthy rags)


1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

John 7:16-18
So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


Romans 13:4-5
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

 

[GodsGrace101]

But for those who are believing (present tense) such an action is unthinkable.

We have to become somehow hardened for that to happen.

And when it does, God will chastise us as sons.

This is why, even though salvation is secure in Christ, we need to be dilligent. Not to avoid losing our salvation, but because we want to glorify God in our body and spirit which are HIS. And drifting or floating on a lily pad is not glorifying God.

And is a faith that only existed in the past and does not continue true faith?

So faith IS the only condition, but faith is never alone

I'm not posting anymore.
You could PM me.

 

[dcontroversal]

MANY will come to me in that day saying, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works in your name, have we not prophesied in thy name, and have we not cast out many devils in your name."

What does JESUS say.......depart from me you workers of iniquity...I NEVER KNEW YOU

This is the same dogma that the workers for, Cainologists, Pharisees and law peddlers push on this site.....

They believe in their MIND that they KNOW the LORD and they PEDDLE their works as the proverbial "proof in the pudding"
They peddle WORKS as part of the TICKET to paradise..........they blend FAITH and WORKS to gain, maintain, keep, top off, finish off SALVATION.

GALATIANS condemns this view as false, double cursed and having NO POWER and the reason is simple.....to BLEND works in with faith is to devalue the work of Christ on our behalf and reeks of a lack of trust that Christ will do what he said he will do.

The bible is clear....FAITH is what SAVES A MAN ETERNALLY.......VERB TENSE sets forth that we are SAVED, continuing to BE SAVED and will REMAIN saved.....

THE gifts and calling of GOD are IRREVOCABLE <----SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT that CANNOT be earned and or MAINTAINED by MAN.......

 

[dcontroversal]

@stillness
@Argueless
@justpassinthrough


I'm tagging you because I was asked to when I decided to leave here.
I am now leaving this thread.

It's of no use and for those reading along, they'll have to pray and learn to understand the bible.

@TruthTalk is asked questions which he does not answer, because he cannot, and posts images of watches instead.
He tells me to "shut up". I answer that he should tell his wife to shut up and not ME. He replies that the verse he posted was speaking of a WOMAN and not a WIFE. So I guess HIS wife must be a man.
Again...showing no understanding of plain conversation.

@dcontroversal insists he posts scripture when it is plain to all who care to have eyes that he does not.
A disagreeing member is a liar and is dishonest.
Again...showing no understanding of biblical language or plain English.

@UnderGrace is very good at making remarks but also does not answer a serious question, as in my post no. 83,487.
Again....shows no understanding of the bible.

@blue_ladybug and @Budman have clearly stated that it is not necessary to obey God and Budman has said that he could sin all he wants to because all it takes to be saved is to "believe" in Jesus -- whatever that means to him.
Again...shows no understanding of the bible.

@mailmandan posts scripture and has answers but he loves his Greek and can't seem to understand simple English. As if only those who know Greek could know what God desires from them.
Again....no understanding of the bible.


So, I DO believe it's time to leave.
I leave posting the following:
A non-believer, BTW, is anyone who does not believe what Jesus taught.




2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
(those who obey God are unequally yoked with those who do not)


Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Sounds like Jesus desires us to be righteous...and yet those here say it is as filthy rags)


1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

John 7:16-18
So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


Romans 13:4-5
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

Fran...pathological liars are not saved by their works........and what you said about me (and everybody else named) is a lie.....end of story....

 

[mailmandan]

What is THE END OF OUR FAITH??

There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) Now answer your own question.

At the END of our faith...we receive salvation.

In the end believers receive glorification, yet believers are saved now, we "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.

Because we can become lost again before we die.

Show me the specific words "lost salvation" in the Bible.

Bye

You are not going anywhere. You are having too much fun stirring the pot.

 

[GodsGrace101]

But for those who are believing (present tense) such an action is unthinkable.

We have to become somehow hardened for that to happen.

And when it does, God will chastise us as sons.

This is why, even though salvation is secure in Christ, we need to be dilligent. Not to avoid losing our salvation, but because we want to glorify God in our body and spirit which are HIS. And drifting or floating on a lily pad is not glorifying God.

And is a faith that only existed in the past and does not continue true faith?

So faith IS the only condition, but faith is never alone

BTW, neither you nor Dcon understand the parables of the Prodigal Son or the Two Sons.
This happens when a biblical doctrine is not understood...
it causes ALL, or MANY, of biblical concepts to then have to be changed in meaning.
Jesus did NOT ask which of the two sons was a believer.
Jesus asked which of the two sons DID THE FATHER'S WILL.

 

[blue_ladybug]

There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) Now answer your own question.

In the end believers receive glorification, yet believers are saved now, we "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.

Show me the specific words "lost salvation" in the Bible.

You are not going anywhere. You are having too much fun stirring the pot.

Dan, did you get my PM's??

 

[mailmandan]

Dan, did you get my PM's??

Yes I did Lady Blue.

 

[mailmandan]

But for those who are believing (present tense) such an action is unthinkable.

We have to become somehow hardened for that to happen.

And when it does, God will chastise us as sons.

This is why, even though salvation is secure in Christ, we need to be dilligent. Not to avoid losing our salvation, but because we want to glorify God in our body and spirit which are HIS. And drifting or floating on a lily pad is not glorifying God.

And is a faith that only existed in the past and does not continue true faith?

So faith IS the only condition, but faith is never alone

Yes, believing unto salvation is present tense and continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. God certainly does chasten believers as sons. The Amplified Classic Bible explains Hebrews 12:8 very nicely - Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God's children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all]. A faith that only exists in the past and does not continue was not authentic faith, but was an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

 

[mailmandan]

So faith IS the only condition, but faith is never alone

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[blue_ladybug]

@blue_ladybug and @Budman have clearly stated that it is not necessary to obey God and Budman has said that he could sin all he wants to because all it takes to be saved is to "believe" in Jesus -- whatever that means to him.
Again...shows no understanding of the bible.



YO, hold up one second. I HAVE NEVER said that it is not necessary to obey God. That is a bald-face lie from you, one in a string of several...

It is necessary to obey God, BUT NOT FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GAINING, KEEPING AND MAINTAINING SALVATION..

Liars are of the devil, Fran.. and you're a liar.

 

[PennEd]

Switch this guy with Fran, and Facebook with CC, and this is SPOT ON!!!!

 

[Hevosmies]

6.
Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "


9.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

13.
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

[/QUOTE]
Could someone answer these verses?

Especially

Matthew 5:13
“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "

This implies that it WAS salty, but then became tasteless. How do we explain that?

 

[justpassinthrough]

This is why, even though salvation is secure in Christ, we need to be dilligent. Not to avoid losing our salvation,

We need to be diligent to hear Him, so that we follow Him, and not become lost.




JPT

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hevosmies, are you gonna boycott Mickey D's, Pringles and Oreo for joining in on gay pride week?

 

[justpassinthrough]

@stillness
@Argueless
@justpassinthrough


I'm tagging you because I was asked to when I decided to leave here.
I am now leaving this thread.

It's of no use and for those reading along, they'll have to pray and learn to understand the bible.

@TruthTalk is asked questions which he does not answer, because he cannot, and posts images of watches instead.
He tells me to "shut up". I answer that he should tell his wife to shut up and not ME. He replies that the verse he posted was speaking of a WOMAN and not a WIFE. So I guess HIS wife must be a man.
Again...showing no understanding of plain conversation.

@dcontroversal insists he posts scripture when it is plain to all who care to have eyes that he does not.
A disagreeing member is a liar and is dishonest.
Again...showing no understanding of biblical language or plain English.

@UnderGrace is very good at making remarks but also does not answer a serious question, as in my post no. 83,487.
Again....shows no understanding of the bible.

@blue_ladybug and @Budman have clearly stated that it is not necessary to obey God and Budman has said that he could sin all he wants to because all it takes to be saved is to "believe" in Jesus -- whatever that means to him.
Again...shows no understanding of the bible.

@mailmandan posts scripture and has answers but he loves his Greek and can't seem to understand simple English. As if only those who know Greek could know what God desires from them.
Again....no understanding of the bible.


So, I DO believe it's time to leave.
I leave posting the following:
A non-believer, BTW, is anyone who does not believe what Jesus taught.




2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
(those who obey God are unequally yoked with those who do not)


Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Sounds like Jesus desires us to be righteous...and yet those here say it is as filthy rags)


1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

John 7:16-18
So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


Romans 13:4-5
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

Amen.

 

[gb9]

@stillness
@Argueless
@justpassinthrough


I'm tagging you because I was asked to when I decided to leave here.
I am now leaving this thread.

It's of no use and for those reading along, they'll have to pray and learn to understand the bible.

@TruthTalk is asked questions which he does not answer, because he cannot, and posts images of watches instead.
He tells me to "shut up". I answer that he should tell his wife to shut up and not ME. He replies that the verse he posted was speaking of a WOMAN and not a WIFE. So I guess HIS wife must be a man.
Again...showing no understanding of plain conversation.

@dcontroversal insists he posts scripture when it is plain to all who care to have eyes that he does not.
A disagreeing member is a liar and is dishonest.
Again...showing no understanding of biblical language or plain English.

@UnderGrace is very good at making remarks but also does not answer a serious question, as in my post no. 83,487.
Again....shows no understanding of the bible.

@blue_ladybug and @Budman have clearly stated that it is not necessary to obey God and Budman has said that he could sin all he wants to because all it takes to be saved is to "believe" in Jesus -- whatever that means to him.
Again...shows no understanding of the bible.

@mailmandan posts scripture and has answers but he loves his Greek and can't seem to understand simple English. As if only those who know Greek could know what God desires from them.
Again....no understanding of the bible.


So, I DO believe it's time to leave.
I leave posting the following:
A non-believer, BTW, is anyone who does not believe what Jesus taught.




2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
(those who obey God are unequally yoked with those who do not)


Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Sounds like Jesus desires us to be righteous...and yet those here say it is as filthy rags)


1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

John 7:16-18
So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.


2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


Romans 13:4-5
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11
9I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.


1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

you left me out.

I point out how you refuse to accept the definition of believe.