Has the law been put aside? If so, when?
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Grandpa,
I do not wish to continue round and round on a point that you clearly firmly believe in and are coming at me from a point of frustration rather than communicating. However I do want to remind you the Bible was originally written in Hebrew so by me saying let’s look at the Hebrew is in no way saying “I’m re translating the Bible” as you put it.
I’ll do my best to answer your questions:
I do believe they were to eat herbs and green things for a time to allow the Earth to be replenished. I also believe in verse 2 Yahweh was saying that Noah had dominion over the animals as Adam did so that he would be safe and the animals would fear him as they went back in the wild. I believe Yahweh was reminding Noah , that after the Earth was replenished, to eat Kosher which is in not to eat with blood in the meat and be clean meat. Please also remember that in our perfect created state prior to sin and falling in the garden of Eden we ate only herbs and green food. I’m not rewriting the scripture and never will, only sharing the insight that I have come to see.
I do not wish to continue round and round on a point that you clearly firmly believe in and are coming at me from a point of frustration rather than communicating. However I do want to remind you the Bible was originally written in Hebrew so by me saying let’s look at the Hebrew is in no way saying “I’m re translating the Bible” as you put it.
I’ll do my best to answer your questions:
I do believe they were to eat herbs and green things for a time to allow the Earth to be replenished. I also believe in verse 2 Yahweh was saying that Noah had dominion over the animals as Adam did so that he would be safe and the animals would fear him as they went back in the wild. I believe Yahweh was reminding Noah , that after the Earth was replenished, to eat Kosher which is in not to eat with blood in the meat and be clean meat. Please also remember that in our perfect created state prior to sin and falling in the garden of Eden we ate only herbs and green food. I’m not rewriting the scripture and never will, only sharing the insight that I have come to see.
Not sure what you are trying to say, but the same tools as described prior help with reading scripture in original form old and New Testament, Hebrew and Greek. The inter linear bible shows the written language alongside the English with numbers for the words in the original language you then look that number up in the strongs concordance and it defines the word. If one can read English and recognize numbers they can use these tools, which are available for free, and easy to use in the blue letter bible app or blue letter bible online. Just putting this information here in case any are interested in self study in the original text and being able to learn the depth of scripture.
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It doesn't make very much sense to tell someone that you have given the animals into their hands and then remind them not to eat them while there is still blood in the meat and STILL contend that God didn't want them to eat meat but instead only herbs.
Do you see just by looking at the surrounding verses how your lesson in hebrew makes no sense?
Do you see just by looking at the surrounding verses how your lesson in hebrew makes no sense?
Ok let’s look at the surrounding verses:
Genesis 9:2 (NKJV) "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move [on] the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.
This verse is describing the fear the animals were to have of Noah and “given into your hand” means to have recieved dominion over or in literal sense “ hand is against them and you overpower” so this has nothing to do with eating and everything to do with dominance over animals like Adam in the garden as I stated earlier
Verse 3: we have exhausted this one but here it is: Genesis 9:3 (NKJV) "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.
The Hebrew that we have been discussing is this (written in sound form so that you can read the letters but the actual Hebrew I can write out and take a picture if you truly want to see it) it reads : Remes Chay ‘Oklah Yereq Eseb Nathan. Which literally translates as “moving things alive consume greenness plants/green herbs bestowed”
Genesis 9:4 (NKJV) "But you shall not eat flesh with its life, [that is,] its blood.
This is self explanatory but the Hebrew in this verse goes like this “ indeed the flesh and soul do not consume”
I don’t know what I’m missing but am open to hear why you think I’m changing the Bible and taking things out of context now that we have visited the surrounding verses
Do you read Hebrew in the sense that you understand its syntax and grammar? The word order is different than English, so you cannot simply take an interlinear version and get the full understanding. It's a quick path to misunderstanding if you don't check your conclusions against those of people who do understand the language (that would include all the translators).
Verse 4 clearly indicates that God expected Noah to eat animals. "Clean" and "unclean" aren't discussed in this passage, so any argument on that subject is simply without authority.
Verse 4 clearly indicates that God expected Noah to eat animals. "Clean" and "unclean" aren't discussed in this passage, so any argument on that subject is simply without authority.
Thank you for the compliment and I agree most of the deemed “unclean meats/creatures” are filters/disposals to rid the Earth of refuse, carcasses, and leftover items. Which makes me think there is a def reason we are commanded to not eat them. But alas scripture makes the distinction so I choose to refrain.
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I hear what you are saying Dino, but the inter linear does take into consideration the word order. The difference of word order is the sentence starts from right and moves left whereas in English it starts left and moves right, but the sequential order is the same as in first word, second, and so on. As for syntax and grammar this is something continuously study out to give my best attempt at understanding and also research with those whom do understand to get the meaning down as close as possible but I am not perfect nor would I ever claim to be. When I read this passage from the Hebrew it reads to me (paraphrasing into English summation) as Yahweh (God) was saying that when you leave the ark not to eat animals and allow them to be fruitful and multiply, to have dominion over them and subdue them if need be, remember that when the time comes for meat to be back on the menu to not eat meat with its life force still in it and keep Kosher as in no blood in the life you consume. Please understand this is my understanding of this passage and how I take it after I have studied out the Hebrew writing and layout....
Now with that being said I will take the thought of “Noah can eat animals immediately and whatever animal he desires” and expound.... Noah eats the animals, he feeds his wife, three grown male children, and thier wives, with there being such a limited amount of each creature how long before a species becomes extinct from simply being eaten by humans? Granted one cow can feed 8 humans a bit, but with no refrigeration, and the salt supply being washed away by the flood (it would need to be replenished also) there was no way to preserve the meat once slaughtered and cooked. So therefore they would have to slaughter a decent quantity of creatures to sustain thier lives not giving enough time for reproduction of said creatures given the gestation period for most of them would be over 200 days to bring forth new young, then maturity period to get to an age worthy of becoming meat for lack of a better term. The creature that would be the quickest turn on birthing new young would be chickens which gestation period is approx 21 days from egg laid to hatched then approx 12-16 weeks for them to be mature enough to eat, cows gestation period is approx 260 days then approx a year from birth to be mature enough to eat, deer are similar with a gestation period of 220 days then at least a year or more for maturity to eat, so on and so forth. And just to go further an unclean animal (which there much less of) like a pig, there gestation period is approx 120 days and approx another year after to eat (6 months approx if it’s a factory style farm in which they didn’t have in those days). Thinking out of the box suppose they wanted to eat a lion (unclean meat) thier gestation period is 108 days and then time needed to grow to meat level. So in retrospect, the meat would run out prior to being replenished if Noah and his family were to eat them.
This is why I hold firm in the belief that there was a time where no creature ate another (humans eating animals nor animals eating other animals) like in the garden so the animals and Noah and his family would have time to be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth once more. Now after there being a significant enough time for species to be firm and secure again I would think that meat eating would begin again as well as sacrifices. And they would know what was clean to eat and what was not because Yahweh (God) had declared what was and what wasn’t from before the flood, furthermore they knew how to sacrifice appropriately because someone had to teach the generations otherwise Abrham would t have known how to. So, in conclusion Torah was a real thing before flood, and after, and was passed as a verbal inheritance from generation to generation, and given in written form from the Almighty Himself on mt. Sinai as a contract to be part of God’s set apart people (there were other nationalities with the Israelites in the exodus and were “grafted/adopted/accepted” as native born by accepting the contract) just as we are called today to be set apart. Therein is why I follow Torah, two fold, because God said to “throughout your generations to be a sign on your forehead and hearts” and also to be set apart from the world as Yahshua (Jesus) calls us to be set apart from the world. It all clicks and makes sense and flows and is unchanging just as Yahweh Himself is the same today as yesterday and tomorrow. But I state again, this is my belief and understanding of the scriptures in its entirety and I urge whomever reads this to not take my word for it but to study and pray and seek truth.
Now with that being said I will take the thought of “Noah can eat animals immediately and whatever animal he desires” and expound.... Noah eats the animals, he feeds his wife, three grown male children, and thier wives, with there being such a limited amount of each creature how long before a species becomes extinct from simply being eaten by humans? Granted one cow can feed 8 humans a bit, but with no refrigeration, and the salt supply being washed away by the flood (it would need to be replenished also) there was no way to preserve the meat once slaughtered and cooked. So therefore they would have to slaughter a decent quantity of creatures to sustain thier lives not giving enough time for reproduction of said creatures given the gestation period for most of them would be over 200 days to bring forth new young, then maturity period to get to an age worthy of becoming meat for lack of a better term. The creature that would be the quickest turn on birthing new young would be chickens which gestation period is approx 21 days from egg laid to hatched then approx 12-16 weeks for them to be mature enough to eat, cows gestation period is approx 260 days then approx a year from birth to be mature enough to eat, deer are similar with a gestation period of 220 days then at least a year or more for maturity to eat, so on and so forth. And just to go further an unclean animal (which there much less of) like a pig, there gestation period is approx 120 days and approx another year after to eat (6 months approx if it’s a factory style farm in which they didn’t have in those days). Thinking out of the box suppose they wanted to eat a lion (unclean meat) thier gestation period is 108 days and then time needed to grow to meat level. So in retrospect, the meat would run out prior to being replenished if Noah and his family were to eat them.
This is why I hold firm in the belief that there was a time where no creature ate another (humans eating animals nor animals eating other animals) like in the garden so the animals and Noah and his family would have time to be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth once more. Now after there being a significant enough time for species to be firm and secure again I would think that meat eating would begin again as well as sacrifices. And they would know what was clean to eat and what was not because Yahweh (God) had declared what was and what wasn’t from before the flood, furthermore they knew how to sacrifice appropriately because someone had to teach the generations otherwise Abrham would t have known how to. So, in conclusion Torah was a real thing before flood, and after, and was passed as a verbal inheritance from generation to generation, and given in written form from the Almighty Himself on mt. Sinai as a contract to be part of God’s set apart people (there were other nationalities with the Israelites in the exodus and were “grafted/adopted/accepted” as native born by accepting the contract) just as we are called today to be set apart. Therein is why I follow Torah, two fold, because God said to “throughout your generations to be a sign on your forehead and hearts” and also to be set apart from the world as Yahshua (Jesus) calls us to be set apart from the world. It all clicks and makes sense and flows and is unchanging just as Yahweh Himself is the same today as yesterday and tomorrow. But I state again, this is my belief and understanding of the scriptures in its entirety and I urge whomever reads this to not take my word for it but to study and pray and seek truth.
I'd suggest you do a little research on the diets of "unclean" animals. Rabbits don't eat garbage; neither do camels. Most mustelids and apex predators don't eat garbage, but are still unclean. About the only ones that do (consistently) are rats, gulls, and corvids. Hogs do eat garbage... if that's what they're given to eat.
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I have given you all the animals into your hand so that I can say that you are NOT to eat them but only eat herbs.
Still makes no sense.
Also, when you eat the meat make sure you drain the blood out, you are forbidden to eat the blood.
What about not eating meat at all but only eating herbs?
Because a command to only eat herbs is just NOT present in these scriptures. This is your wishful thinking and bad philosophy.
I have given all the animals into your hands.
Every living thing shall be meat for you.
Don't eat meat with blood still inside it. This blood is mine (essentially).
Now if the surrounding verses were about growing herbs and eating herbs then your wishful thinking and bad philosophy would make more sense. But its not. They are all about meat.
You don't have to be an ancient hebrew scholar in order to understand scripture and refute someones bad translation. Just look at the surrounding scriptures and it "translates" itself.
Still makes no sense.
Also, when you eat the meat make sure you drain the blood out, you are forbidden to eat the blood.
What about not eating meat at all but only eating herbs?
Because a command to only eat herbs is just NOT present in these scriptures. This is your wishful thinking and bad philosophy.
I have given all the animals into your hands.
Every living thing shall be meat for you.
Don't eat meat with blood still inside it. This blood is mine (essentially).
Now if the surrounding verses were about growing herbs and eating herbs then your wishful thinking and bad philosophy would make more sense. But its not. They are all about meat.
You don't have to be an ancient hebrew scholar in order to understand scripture and refute someones bad translation. Just look at the surrounding scriptures and it "translates" itself.
ROMANS 13:8.
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9.
For this, you shalt not commit adultery, you shalt not kill, you shalt not steal, you shalt not bear false witness,
you shalt not covet; and if there be any OTHER Commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,
you shall love your neighbour as thyself.
These are the Words of Jesus Christ our Lord...
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9.
For this, you shalt not commit adultery, you shalt not kill, you shalt not steal, you shalt not bear false witness,
you shalt not covet; and if there be any OTHER Commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,
you shall love your neighbour as thyself.
These are the Words of Jesus Christ our Lord...
In the Jerusalem church council they sent a letter to gentiles telling them to obstain from blood. WHY if they were all vegetarians?
Oy vey!
Was cain the first vegetarian? Me personally i got nothing against vegetarians, BUT i believe the "green movement" and the spirit behind it is EVIL. Its part of the antichrist agenda to take over and control everything under the guise of this and that!
Oy vey!
Was cain the first vegetarian? Me personally i got nothing against vegetarians, BUT i believe the "green movement" and the spirit behind it is EVIL. Its part of the antichrist agenda to take over and control everything under the guise of this and that!
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I don't know why people put their personal agendas into scripture and then state it as fact.
Its not a fact. Its a wish. Its an inference not based on fact but on will.
We all want to fill in the blanks that are not described or not listed as fact but to do so in our own imagination and then state that imagination as biblical fact is just wrong.
I think that's why we have such strong discussions sometimes.
Its not a fact. Its a wish. Its an inference not based on fact but on will.
We all want to fill in the blanks that are not described or not listed as fact but to do so in our own imagination and then state that imagination as biblical fact is just wrong.
I think that's why we have such strong discussions sometimes.
I never stated they were to be vegetarians for all time. I have stated with peace always, that they were to give time to allow all creatures human and not human to be fruitful and multiply. Has anyone read my post detailing the gestation period of animals, can you explain to me how if they were to eat a pig male or female (there were only two) how that species survived, or any of them for that matter because due to gestation periods and length of time that would be needed for new babes to mature, it makes no sense in my mind to eat animals until they have replenished the earth with enough of themselves in order to become food for mankind. I believe and have shown what the Hebrew states that Yahweh (God) was saying abstain all creatures, not just humans were to eat green, and the 4th verse when I showed what the Hebrew states says “indeed don’t eat flesh and soul” so in other words, read in how it was meant to be read it says in those two verses “ all living creatures eat green herbs bestowed. Indeed do not eat flesh and soul.” So verse 4 is a continuation of verse 3. Now this was not commanded to be done forever as in those laws and commands Yahweh always says “throughout your generations.” There not a statement like that here so we know it isn’t a forever thing. ..... as I have done, and been open minded and tried to see it how you have seen it, please just try to see what the words say and also think about how the animals would survive if they were being eaten by humans and also fighting off thier natural predators.
One more note the “given into your hand” statement has nothing to do with food. Yahweh states this statement again to the Israelites when he repeatedly tells them “your enemies are given to your hand” does this mean they were to eat them? Just food for thought.
I would like to also state again that I have not and will not state that Yahweh has asked us to be vegetarians for all time. I also believe the scriptures to be beautiful and this is how I have understood them, but if you don’t see it this way then I wish you well, if you see it this way, then I wish you well.... my point is I wish you well no matter and we don’t have to agree.
One more note the “given into your hand” statement has nothing to do with food. Yahweh states this statement again to the Israelites when he repeatedly tells them “your enemies are given to your hand” does this mean they were to eat them? Just food for thought.
I would like to also state again that I have not and will not state that Yahweh has asked us to be vegetarians for all time. I also believe the scriptures to be beautiful and this is how I have understood them, but if you don’t see it this way then I wish you well, if you see it this way, then I wish you well.... my point is I wish you well no matter and we don’t have to agree.