Video - Faith or Faith plus Works?

[joseph123]

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version


1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

 

[Hevosmies]

I'll throw you a curveball:

A faith that works

 

[mailmandan]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24)

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Guojing]

Some simple equations to sum up different beliefs

Salvation = Faith - Works (Word of Faith Churches)

Salvation = Faith + Works (Catholics, Mormons, any churches that don't subscribe to OSAS)

Saving Faith = Salvation + Works (Those who like to quote James, who distinguish between true saving faith and dead faith, who say things like "Works don't save you but salvation need to have works after that, to show true faith)

 

[joseph123]

Some simple equations to sum up different beliefs

Salvation = Faith - Works (Word of Faith Churches)

Salvation = Faith + Works (Catholics, Mormons, any churches that don't subscribe to OSAS)

Saving Faith = Salvation + Works (Those who like to quote James, who distinguish between true saving faith and dead faith, who say things like "Works don't save you but salvation need to have works after that, to show true faith)

Saving Faith is along the lines of what I profess. Once we come to Christ, all of our sins are wiped away. Then after that, you must choose with your free will to stop sinning and produce good works.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Another thread on a subject that has been beaten to death. And a video to boot. Many people (including myself) will not watch videos. A summation of what's in the video would help.

 

[joseph123]

Another thread on a subject that has been beaten to death. And a video to boot. Many people (including myself) will not watch videos. A summation of what's in the video would help.

Here is the transcript:

Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works? In the Bible, during Jesus' ministry, he traveled around Israel healing the sick and teaching people about faith and repentance. He instructed everyone on how they should conduct their lives and commanded everyone to love God and to love their neighbor. It seems like common sense that if Jesus went around teaching these things, then Christianity is about listening to Jesus and doing these things. But some people these days say that we don't have to do any of what Jesus said to go to heaven. Other people believe that we will automatically do these things upon believing in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit. But the truth is, Jesus never said either of these things. And even sadder, many, even most Christians these days are on their way to hell as a result of believing that they don't have to do anything that Jesus said to do. Jesus made it clear in his ministry that you have to obey him to go to heaven. For example, in Matthew 7 verse 21 he said, "Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter." and in Matthew 7 verse 19 he said, "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." The will of the Father is for every man to repent of their sins and to show their repentance through their good works. Jesus teaches us how to repent in each of the 4 Gospels and in his sermon on the mount. We also must trust in the blood of Jesus as the sacrifice for our sins. Without faith, repentance and good works, you will not go to heaven. May Jesus bless you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Without faith, repentance and good works, you will not go to heaven.

Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are essential for obedience to the Gospel (Acts 20:21) which leads to salvation.

At the same time, those who are saved are saved"unto" good works, i.e. good works are essential in their Christian lives (Ephesians 2:8-10). However good works will not be one of the criteria for entrance into Heaven. Study Romans 4 and several other passages.

 

[crossnote]

C'mon people, we all know we are saved by works.

...His Works

(Rom 5:19)

 

[joseph123]

Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are essential for obedience to the Gospel (Acts 20:21) which leads to salvation.

At the same time, those who are saved are saved"unto" good works, i.e. good works are essential in their Christian lives (Ephesians 2:8-10). However good works will not be one of the criteria for entrance into Heaven. Study Romans 4 and several other passages.

It seems like a small distinction here. I agree that we are saved "unto" good works and I think that this is equivalent to saying we are required to do good works after conversion. In a sense, this means good works are indeed required for entrance into Heaven (unless you died very shortly after conversion)

 

[JaumeJ]

No flesh may boast of salvation without giving exclusive creit to the cross. No man has faith without works. It is not a mystery, so why all the fuss over what is our due?

 

[Guojing]

It seems like a small distinction here. I agree that we are saved "unto" good works and I think that this is equivalent to saying we are required to do good works after conversion. In a sense, this means good works are indeed required for entrance into Heaven (unless you died very shortly after conversion)

The Methodists believe that too, that is how they reconcile the "What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus". You will find yourself a home in those churches.

Their argument is rather sophisticated. In United Methodist Doctrine (2002),

Faith is necessary to salvation unconditionally. Good works are necessary only conditionally, that is if there is time and opportunity. The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39–43 is Wesley's example of this. He believed in Christ and was told, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise." This would be impossible if the good works that are the fruit of genuine repentance and faith were unconditionally necessary for salvation. The man was dying and lacked time; his movements were confined and he lacked opportunity. In his case, faith alone was necessary. However, for the vast majority of human beings good works are necessary for continuance in faith because those persons have both the time and opportunity for them.​

 

[Guojing]

Here is the transcript:

Are we saved by faith alone or faith plus works? In the Bible, during Jesus' ministry, he traveled around Israel healing the sick and teaching people about faith and repentance. He instructed everyone on how they should conduct their lives and commanded everyone to love God and to love their neighbor. It seems like common sense that if Jesus went around teaching these things, then Christianity is about listening to Jesus and doing these things.

Thanks for giving us the transcript. This guy definitely don't distinguish between the dispensations of law and grace.

 

[joseph123]

Thanks for giving us the transcript. This guy definitely don't distinguish between the dispensations of law and grace.

In some ways, yeah. The New Testament states that God was merciful during the Old Testament because he was already looking ahead at Christ's sacrifice. I believe God expects righteousness both pre-grace and post-grace.

The only difference is that, in the dispensation of Law, people were expected to adhere to a legal code, whereas in the dispensation of grace, people are expected to adhere to a purely conscience-guided code of conduct.

 

[JaumeJ]

Think on the Word, all. Abraham believed God which was accounted to him as righteousnous.

Our faith is works as long as it is active, and not just a label. Yes, some who simply believe and wait on the Lord are working God's works, but do not assume. All know by His Presence if they are working……...none are to be judged by others as not working, yet, faith without works is dead.

 

[garee]

We are saved by the faith of the works of our savior. Faith is a work . It is all one thing.

When a person begins to separate works from faith (the plan) the hope of having a result is dead.

Christ believing something will happen worked it out according to his three day labor of Love. We work His grace out as he does work with us in us to both will and do His good pleasure .He informs us to do His will with without murmuring as if he would forget the good works we offer towards His name .

From my experiences many do not want to attribute that God has faith or needs it to work out what he desires. Faith is the gift previously having none.

 

[Adstar]

Some simple equations to sum up different beliefs

Salvation = Faith - Works (Word of Faith Churches)

Salvation = Faith + Works (Catholics, Mormons, any churches that don't subscribe to OSAS)

Saving Faith = Salvation + Works (Those who like to quote James, who distinguish between true saving faith and dead faith, who say things like "Works don't save you but salvation need to have works after that, to show true faith)

I am a total believer in Salvation is by Faith alone in the Atonement secured by Jesus alone..

But i do not believe in OSAS.. They are two seperate issues..

 

[John146]

I am a total believer in Salvation is by Faith alone in the Atonement secured by Jesus alone..

But i do not believe in OSAS.. They are two seperate issues..

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit seals the believer until the day of redemption. What's the redemption? Romans 8:23 defines it as the adoption. It's a future event for believers. The Holy Spirit has guaranteed the believer for that day. It is not dependent upon the believer's works or life.

 

[Adstar]

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit seals the believer until the day of redemption. What's the redemption? Romans 8:23 defines it as the adoption. It's a future event for believers. The Holy Spirit has guaranteed the believer for that day. It is not dependent upon the believer's works or life.

I don't want to get into another debate about calvinist OSAS.. But i will say The Holy Spirit seals all who God has foreknown from the foundation of the World who will persist in belief and not fall away into deception and delusion..

And Faith is not a Works according to the Bible.. But yeah it's all been debated before.. many many times in this forum..