Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jan 27, 2019

I know.....there is not one iota of scriptural evidence where God kept a saved child of God in a false religion to justify the means.....he calls us out of said religions into the truth and into the light.........there are MANY that cannot accept this truth.........sad to say.....

FlyingDove · Jan 27, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

People often add there own contextual application to 1 Jn 2:3 & 1 Jn 5:3. IE the 10 commandments.

Originally scripture wasn't written via chapter & verse. That's added later by translators.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(NOTE: For John's intended reference to commandment keeping. You must READ ON!)

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
(NOTE: What commandment is 1 Jn 2 referring to? Everyone who believes in Christ & loves his brother is born of God. Also see what Jesus say's in Matt 22:38-39)

1 John 5:
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(NOTE: How does someone overcome the sins of the world: Vs 2, via FAITH! Faith in what? That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God)

dcontroversal · Jan 27, 2019

The whole discourse of 2nd Corinthians 6 also proves this to be true....

God was clear....

Come out from among them and be separate saith the LORD....it is ridiculous to believe that God would keep a saved man in a false religion when he calls for us to be separate...........

What fellowship, communion, part etc. does

light have with darkness
Christ with Belial
truth with false

etc.........

Ella85 · Jan 27, 2019

I was a Catholic pretty much up until 6 years ago. The thought of stepping into a Catholic church makes my skin crawl now. To think I participated in such non biblical, ritualistic acts is saddening, thank God I don't believe in that anymore!

dcontroversal · Jan 27, 2019

Ella85 said:

AMEN to that....I am glad as well.............................

VCO · Jan 28, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Now I know all about liturgy, as I was raised Lutheran. The biggest difference between Catholic and Lutherans is the Catholics call the boys that help with the Services an Altarboy, and the Lutherans call them Acolytes. Yes, I remained their about a year after I was Born Again.

However, I have SEEN Born Again Catholics, and I know it is not an easy ministry. They do not elevate Mary more than they should, they teach the Gospel as well as any Baptist, they believe the BIBLE was Inspired by GOD and was inerrant in the original manuscripts, and always focus on the Deity of Jesus Christ in their worship services. Yes it is a hard road to hoe, but some absolutely believe they are there to teach others about Jesus Christ, and who am I to teach them otherwise. I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE CHURCH BY CHRIST HIMSELF, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS SOMEWHAT AGAINST THEM.

ALSO, I CAN TAKE THE EVERY STATEMENT OUT OF A BAPTIST DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH, AND FIND THE EXACT SAME STATEMENT IN THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM that is published BY THE VATICAN. THEREFORE, THEY STILL ARE GETTING A FEW PEOPLE SAVED. Yes there are better Churches, but CHRIST WALKS AROUND SEVEN TYPES OF CHURCHES, NOT JUST ONE, AND YES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE THOSE TYPES OF CHURCHES.

Revelation 2:1 (HCSB)
1 “Write to the angel of the church in Ephesus: “The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand and who walks among the seven gold lampstands says:

Seven real Churches, Seven TYPES OF CHURCHES, and ALL SEVEN can be found THROUGHOUT CHURCH History.

WHO AM I TO RECOGNIZE LESS THEN SEVEN?

God is the author of poetic justice, so it will not be surprise me if HE DECIDES to put a Born Again Catholic on either side of anyone who has not LOVED the BORN AGAIN Catholic brother or sister, LIKE HE SHOULD; every time we Stand before the Throne of Grace.

Budman · Jan 28, 2019

BillG said:

Men are also incredibly visually stimulated. There's the problem. The other problem is most women know that men are turned on visually and dress provocatively because, if they were honest, they adore the attention. They enjoy that feeling of power and control.

It's why the beauty industry is a billion dollar business. Women tie up so much of their worth in their looks, that when their looks start to fade (usually with that first wrinkle or gray hair) they panic, and buy any product that promises them a youthful look.

Back in my drinking days, there was nothing sadder than that woman in a bar that no one bought a drink for. Who has come to the realization that the days of men fawning over her were over.

Yet, I'd take a mature, wise, and confident woman, over a young, gum-snapping, drama-laden, looks-obsessed younger woman any day of the week.

Not to say all older women or younger women are like that, of course.

Budman · Jan 28, 2019

FlyingDove said:

Okay, by that logic I have to ask; Does Jesus also control the Father?

blue_ladybug · Jan 28, 2019

Ella85 said:

There is a Unitarian church around the corner from me. Awhile ago on here, in another forum I posted an article they had put in our FPF, about a meeting they were having, and they were going to do pagan rituals and sacrifices to their dead ancestors. I was absolutely appalled to learn that that is the type of stuff they do behind church doors..

Anyhoo, back in December I did a good deed which resulted in me having to go inside that church to drop something off. I felt dirty just walking inside, and when I left I felt even dirtier, like someone had just literally thrown a bucket of mud on me..

blue_ladybug · Jan 28, 2019

Budman said:

Men are also incredibly visually stimulated. There's the problem. The other problem is most women know that men are turned on visually and dress provocatively because, if they were honest, they adore the attention. They enjoy that feeling of power and control.

It's why the beauty industry is a billion dollar business. Women tie up so much of their worth in their looks, that when their looks start to fade (usually with that first wrinkle or gray hair) they panic, and buy any product that promises them a youthful look.

Back in my drinking days, there was nothing sadder than that woman in a bar that no one bought a drink for. Who has come to the realization that the days of men fawning over her were over.

Yet, I'd take a mature, wise, and confident woman, over a young, gum-snapping, drama-laden, looks-obsessed younger woman any day of the week.

Not to say all older women or younger women are like that, of course.

No one would get turned on looking at me. My brown hair has several silver hairs in it, I don't wear makeup and I'm in pajamas when I'm home.. lol

I can honestly say I've never been looks obsessed, NOR a gum-snapping person.. lol

Hevosmies · Jan 28, 2019

Budman said:

You know this post serves as a GREAT REMINDER to us all, LOOKS, SIN, EVERYTHING in the world is FADING, every second. Its all temporary.

The biggest super models will end up looking like everyone else, just give it time. Im not saying it to be negative, its just facts and serves as a reminder to focus ON THE LORD!

The same thing could be flipped around on men, the toughest musclebound guy on the block will SOON be just a regular grandpa. That should humble us a little bit, amen?

Hevosmies · Jan 28, 2019

blue_ladybug said:

just marry me right now

dcontroversal · Jan 28, 2019

VCO said:

Now I know all about liturgy, as I was raised Lutheran. The biggest difference between Catholic and Lutherans is the Catholics call the boys that help with the Services an Altarboy, and the Lutherans call them Acolytes. Yes, I remained their about a year after I was Born Again.

However, I have SEEN Born Again Catholics, and I know it is not an easy ministry. They do not elevate Mary more than they should, they teach the Gospel as well as any Baptist, they believe the BIBLE was Inspired by GOD and was inerrant in the original manuscripts, and always focus on the Deity of Jesus Christ in their worship services. Yes it is a hard road to hoe, but some absolutely believe they are there to teach others about Jesus Christ, and who am I to teach them otherwise. I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE CHURCH BY CHRIST HIMSELF, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS SOMEWHAT AGAINST THEM.

ALSO, I CAN TAKE THE EVERY STATEMENT OUT OF A BAPTIST DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH, AND FIND THE EXACT SAME STATEMENT IN THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM that is published BY THE VATICAN. THEREFORE, THEY STILL ARE GETTING A FEW PEOPLE SAVED. Yes there are better Churches, but CHRIST WALKS AROUND SEVEN TYPES OF CHURCHES, NOT JUST ONE, AND YES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE THOSE TYPES OF CHURCHES.

Revelation 2:1 (HCSB)
1 “Write to the angel of the church in Ephesus: “The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand and who walks among the seven gold lampstands says:

Seven real Churches, Seven TYPES OF CHURCHES, and ALL SEVEN can be found THROUGHOUT CHURCH History.

WHO AM I TO RECOGNIZE LESS THEN SEVEN?

God is the author of poetic justice, so it will not be surprise me if HE DECIDES to put a Born Again Catholic on either side of anyone who has not LOVED the BORN AGAIN Catholic brother or sister, LIKE HE SHOULD; every time we Stand before the Throne of Grace.

God does not contradict his word and Mary should not be elevated in any way, shape, form or fashion.....and I must shake my head at your belief that the Catholic church is a legit church in the eyes of Christ when everything they stand for is against the word of God.....to be honest....that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard a true believer say........

AllenW · Jan 28, 2019

It is time to pray to Mary.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...daily-for-churchs-protection-from-satan-54878

FlyingDove · Jan 28, 2019

Budman said:

Again, I'm at a loss as to the point of your questions. My last reply clearly answered this question.

Here are the two verses I shared with you:

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Matt: all power is GIVEN to Jesus, by whom, the Father. John: the Father, has GIVEN all things to the Son.

Bud, If the Father GAVE the Son all things/power in heaven & earth. Who in this world, is in control of the Holy Spirit?

Budman · Jan 28, 2019

FlyingDove said:

You're taking those verses and overreaching. Jesus does not, I repeat, does not control the Holy Spirit or, for that matter, the Father. By your definition, they are like pets at the beck and call of Jesus.

They are co-equal. If either "controlled" the other, that equality would be shattered.

gb9 · Jan 28, 2019

AllenW said:

no, it's not.

FlyingDove · Jan 28, 2019

Budman said:

I didn't write the verses, I cut & pasted them from the online KJV. It's clear to me we will not agree on this issue. I'll not return to this conversation. Have a blessed day.

TruthTalk · Jan 28, 2019

VCO said:

Some do, and Some don't. I can see you do not know much about Catholicism. I have been watching a growing false doctrine within Catholicism for DECADES that will eventually cause a Church Split.

For your information, I call the one's that Worship Mary, "CATHOLIC-CATHOLICS."

And the ones that Worship the Holy Trinity, "CHRISTIAN-CATHOLICS."

There has been a growing movement in the Catholic Church that says, we pray to Mary, because GOD is TOO busy with the major Prayer requests, so HE depends on Mary to answer the Little Prayer requests. And they actually believe that Mary will answer those Prayer requests.

I asked a Born Again PRIEST, that was a friend of mine, about that. He said, "I know that some do think Mary answers prayer too, but that is not why we are taught to pray to Mary in the Seminary." He said, "Tell me, do you believe that GOD honors that prayer, when you ask a Christian Brother or Sister to Pray for you?" I said, YES. He said, "Now can you quote Chapter and Verse where it says to STOP asking them to pray for you, when that Brother of Sister in Christ Dies ?" He said, after I was silent for awhile, "Yes, we believe it is just a form of Intercessory Prayer, and nothing more." Then he went on to say, "I guess we have done a very Poor job of teaching that from the Pulpit, probably because we thought it was better for them to come to the Church for the Wrong Reason, than not to come at all." I THOUGHT, . . . . and better for the Collection Plate.

YES there are BORN AGAIN CATHOLICS that can put to shame most Protestants, when it comes to LOVING THE BRETHREN. Two of them that I have MET are Catholic Priests, and possibly a third one, though I did not know him long enough to determine what kind of Fruit he produced. I asked them both, why do you remain in the Catholic Church. They both gave me almost identical answers. "Because I am where CHRIST needs me the Most." I thought about that, and realized that I would have to give the same answer about my being in the Prison Ministry as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain. In fact, I remember praying one day when I was a Young Christian, "LORD, give me a ministry One Yard From Hell." Yes, I heard that somewhere, but I do not remember where; BUT I MEANT IT WITH MY WHOLE BEING. YES, HE was faithful to honor that Prayer, in the highest level security Prison in California.

Hi VCO, on the subject matter of “the Catholic Church and your outreach”, for the people of the Church, can you tell me where do you stand as far as;

Do you believe the Catholic Church is a true representation of the “Body of Christ” on earth, with issues; or do you believe the Catholic Church is a false representation of the “Body of Christ” on earth.

After reading your views about the people who are involved in and are members of the Catholic Church it seems apparent that God has put upon your heart to make an outreach to the people of the Catholic Church, in a way that is practical for you.

God bless!, and as a brother in Christ I appreciate your comments.

VCO · Jan 28, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I have spent time with Catholics that are Born Again, and I have to suspect you haven't. There is a Split festering that will one day will separate the Catholic-Catholics from the Christian-Catholics. It has been going on since the early 60's. Any Church that teaches these things is ONE of HIS Churches. AND REMEMBER, there are 5 CHURCHES that received Condemnation from CHRIST; and the one of those five is the Catholic Church. The style of Church it is, does not Necessarily fall along denominational barriers. The CHURCH is largely dependent upon what type of Christian the PASTOR IS. You have been so busy HATING THE CATHOLICS, that it has blinded you to the truly born again Christian Brothers and Sisters, that exist among the their denomination.

This is an excerpt from the Official Catechism of the Catholic Church:

QUOTE:

THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM:
. . .

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."

. . .

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."
. . .
II. "I Know Whom I Have Believed"16

To believe in God alone

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.17
To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God

151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen to him.18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me."19 We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."20 Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.21
To believe in the Holy Spirit

152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit",22 who "searches everything, even the depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God."23 Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.

The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
16 - 2 Tim 1:12,

17 - Jer 17:5-6; Ps 40:5; 146:3-4,

18 - Mk 1:11; 9:7,
19 - Jn 14:1,

20 - Jn 1:18,

21 - Jn 6:46; Mt 11:27,

22 - I Cor 12:3,
23 - I Cor 2:10-11.

. . .

156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit." Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind".

. . .

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man.

. . .

178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.

. . .

781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed. If man commits evil, the just judgment of conscience can remain within him as the witness to the universal truth of the good, at the same time as the evil of his particular choice. the verdict of the judgment of conscience remains a pledge of hope and mercy. In attesting to the fault committed, it calls to mind the forgiveness that must be asked, the good that must still be practiced, and the virtue that must be constantly cultivated with the grace of God:

. . .

1847 "God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us." To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

END QUOTE

I have to count those in a Church like that, as one of the Candlesticks that CHRIST HIMSELF walks around. AND they are getting a few people saved. I would say they may be a spinoff of the PERGAMUM CHURCH.

Revelation 2:14 (HCSB)
14 But I have a few things against you. You have some there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block in front of the Israelites: to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.

BUT CHRIST RECOGNIZES THEM ALSO, so I am NOT going recognize LESS than HE DID.

Not By Works

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