Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

Amen sis. And if I may add, Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.

...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16)

That is why Paul said;

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?

...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18

...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24

They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."

...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38

I would therefore say and believe that;

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26

And regarding eternal security, I still can't find it in the bible but eternal salvation IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.

...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25

Isaiah 5:20
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..."

And yes, we are eternally saved IN CHRIST JESUS.
We are not saved by Jesus unless we are IN Jesus.

I do appreciate the above....I must say that this thread makes me feel very hopeless.
I'll be leaving here for a while because, quite frankly, I don't perceive the Holy Spirit in these surroundings, and I need to recharge.

I put some posters up and the concern was with WHO wrote them instead of WHAT was written!
I guess it's WHO proclaims the word of God and now WHAT is proclaimed... This is a problem these days.

It's very confusing that someone who proclaims that we must obey and follow Jesus is scorned by those who say they believe and trust in Him. Of course, believing implies obeying...anyone who understands Greek, as some here state, would know that.

Those who say that it's not necessary to obey God, as was stated by a member just yesterday, seem to feel that THEY are the ones who have understood the message of Jesus and are, in some way or other, the true followers. Topsy turvey world we live in.

God is a perfect moral being...to say that it's not required to obey Him is foolishness.
If we believe in Him, then we must do as He requires us to do.

Yes, I fear easy believism (which some don't even understand) has infected our churches and will drive many into the lying enemy who is achieving his goals ---

Too obvious to teach NOT to believe in God as some will not accept atheism....
so perhaps watering down Christianity till it's not recognizable anymore will work just as well !
So people could THINK they're serving God...and maybe they are....but why be afraid to PROCLAIM it so that everyone reading along can know that God DOES requires obedience. A mystery to me.

Anyway, I hope to see you around.
The voice of truth must be heard.

 

[dcontroversal]

Isaiah 5:20
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..."

And yes, we are eternally saved IN CHRIST JESUS.
We are not saved by Jesus unless we are IN Jesus.

I do appreciate the above....I must say that this thread makes me feel very hopeless.
I'll be leaving here for a while because, quite frankly, I don't perceive the Holy Spirit in these surroundings, and I need to recharge.

I put some posters up and the concern was with WHO wrote them instead of WHAT was written!
I guess it's WHO proclaims the word of God and now WHAT is proclaimed... This is a problem these days.

It's very confusing that someone who proclaims that we must obey and follow Jesus is scorned by those who say they believe and trust in Him. Of course, believing implies obeying...anyone who understands Greek, as some here state, would know that.

Those who say that it's not necessary to obey God, as was stated by a member just yesterday, seem to feel that THEY are the ones who have understood the message of Jesus and are, in some way or other, the true followers. Topsy turvey world we live in.

God is a perfect moral being...to say that it's not required to obey Him is foolishness.
If we believe in Him, then we must do as He requires us to do.

Yes, I fear easy believism (which some don't even understand) has infected our churches and will drive many into the lying enemy who is achieving his goals ---

Too obvious to teach NOT to believe in God as some will not accept atheism....
so perhaps watering down Christianity till it's not recognizable anymore will work just as well !
So people could THINK they're serving God...and maybe they are....but why be afraid to PROCLAIM it so that everyone reading along can know that God DOES requires obedience. A mystery to me.

Anyway, I hope to see you around.
The voice of truth must be heard.

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

 

[blue_ladybug]

Humor break!! LOL

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Someone on this very thread said that we do not have to obey.
This is what comes from teaching incorrect doctrine.

a is wrong.
b is wrong.
c is wrong.

If we could have been serious we could have discussed each one...
But it's better that I leave now.
One person against a whole gang (group of persons) is more than I can bear at times.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Anyway, I always spoke about obedience and you fought me all the way.

 

[dcontroversal]

Someone on this very thread said that we do not have to obey.
This is what comes from teaching incorrect doctrine.

a is wrong.
b is wrong.
c is wrong.

If we could have been serious we could have discussed each one...
But it's better that I leave now.
One person against a whole gang (group of persons) is more than I can bear at times.

You are not fighting against us....you are fighting against God and his word and indeed a through c is correct....that being...

a. Salvation is eternally given and cannot be lost
b. Salvation is an immediate possession and spoken of in all three tenses....was saved, am saved, continuing to be saved
c. Salvation is an irrevocable gift maintained by Christ

That IS what you are fighting against......make no mistake about it....

 

[dcontroversal]

Anyway, I always spoke about obedience and you fought me all the way.

YEP...because you attached it to maintaining a salvation that can be lost and or not given until the end.....while ignoring all the truth that after salvation our obedience is tied to reward --> misthos<--pay or wages, and or chastisement......

 

[Wansvic]

Fran.......we do not disagree with obedience......we disagree with...

a. A losable salvation
b. A salvtion that does not come until the end
c. A salvation that we must maintain

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

In the context and wording

It means to work out, or put to work what you already have
It does not mean work to earn your salvation.

 

[gb9]

YEP...because you attached it to maintaining a salvation that can be lost and or not given until the end.....while ignoring all the truth that after salvation our obedience is tied to reward --> misthos<--pay or wages, and or chastisement......

it seems that some have a hard time understanding " not of yourself, it is the gift of God ".

but, a lot of the lawyers and work salvationists do not think Paul's letters are Scripture.

many won't admit that ( some will), but many of them do believe Paul's letters have no authority.

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

 

[Hevosmies]

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

Read the next verse will ya?

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Milee777]

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

So, do u believe we can lose our salvation?... If we dont endure? Or if wr don't overcome? Endure and overcome what by the way?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

He who endures to the end,

Context, the end of tribulation, he who survives until christs return.

You just condemned everyone who ever did, b cause they did not endure until christ returned

 

[Wansvic]

So, do u believe we can lose our salvation?... If we dont endure? Or if wr don't overcome? Endure and overcome what by the way?

Jesus mentions we are to endure until the end; continue to walk in obedience to His Word and ways until our time is fulfilled one way or another.

Rev 3:5 indicates that a name in the book of life can be blotted out.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:10-11

 

[Budman]

Jesus mentions we are to endure until the end; continue to walk in obedience to His Word and ways until our time is fulfilled one way or another.

Rev 3:5 indicates that a name in the book of life can be blotted out.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:10-11

How do you know you're going to be one of those who endure until the end?

 

[TruthTalk]

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

Hi Wansvic, those who do not endure to the end are pretend believers and they never had eternal salvation to begin with, it is God who will present us before Him without fault and, "with great joy."

Jude 1:24
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy

The bible is clear that God will never leave His children as orphan's and "Assurance of Salvation", is a doctrine of the Church and supported by scripture. The bible say's in 1Jn5:13, "these things were written that 'you may know', that you have eternal life."

1 John 5:11-13
11) And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12) The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life. 13) I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 14:18,19
But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18) I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19) In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.…

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul's instruction to the Philippians:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

That does not say we work FOR salvation, nor does it say we WORK to keep salvation..........geesh...............!!

This type of mentality is exactly why the number will be plenteous that come before the Lord expecting to enter based upon the good works they have done in his name........

 

[dcontroversal]

it seems that some have a hard time understanding " not of yourself, it is the gift of God ".

but, a lot of the lawyers and work salvationists do not think Paul's letters are Scripture.

many won't admit that ( some will), but many of them do believe Paul's letters have no authority.

The mentality put forth in the above post by WANS is exactly why many will be in hell after expecting to enter based upon the good works they have done in the name of Jesus....I stand amazed at how many reject context and just whip a working for salvation out of thin air and then peddle it as truth like a street organ player in Bombay.....!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said the following:
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22

According to the following scripture names can be blotted out of the book of life:
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev 3:5

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt 24:13-14

He that believes in the son is having everlasting life.....the above is not speaking to the salvation of the soul....but hey...you have already proven that context means nothing and the bible can say whatever one wants it to say when they just blindly cut and paste verbiage because of a few choice words...geesh......!!