The Lake of Fire
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Weeping and gnashing of teeth is what will take place after the death of the body and judgment. Correct! the spirits in Sheol/Hades have all of their senses. Lazarus and the rich man both died, but their spirits were conscious and aware. Lazarus was at Abraham side in the place of comfort in Sheol/Hades. While the rich man's spirit went into the place of torment in flame, which was directly across from where Abraham and Lazarus were. The rich man was having a conversation with Abraham, He was in torment in flame, he could see father Abraham and Lazarus and he was concerned for his five brothers not wanting them to end up in the same place.
And speaking of immortal bodies, I have already presented the scriptures which state that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" means to stand up again in the same body. That said, the wicked will receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment which will be indestructible, but separated from God in the lake of fire.
Wrong............not what the bible states and if this was true we can all like like the devil, do as we please, lie, cheat, steal, murder, rape, commit adultery etc.....and then get punished a while and change our minds and go to heaven....
The smoke of their torment ascending night and day forever before the throne is clear....suffering the fires of eternal vengeance is clear, the mists and blackness of eternal darkness is clear.............
I dont wanna say nothing but I must:
has anyone noticed how viewing almost the entire bible as symbols, you end up with all kinds of weird beliefs like univeralism? or you can repent after death etc?
has anyone noticed how viewing almost the entire bible as symbols, you end up with all kinds of weird beliefs like univeralism? or you can repent after death etc?
I have noticed that many substitute allegory for literal and literal for allegory, which as you say, sends many down a road similar to the land of Oz. So many of these basic issues have long been settled only to see each new generation wrestle with them once again. Many like to wrestle.
Then we a problem, because as I read the Bible and pray, asking God for help in understanding, it's becoming clearer to me that our merciful Savior doesn't torture anyone. People who hurt others, who portray themselves as mighty, are tormented by being exposed for the cowards they truly are. And as Jesus said,
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothingcovered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. Mt.10:26
So when we read,
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev.20:10
We can understand it to mean in the light of Christ, Satan is tormented by having his weaknesses exposed by the evil he committed day and night throughout the ages of mankind.
Not biblical..... Satan was ...chained.... for 1000 years.
(The AC and FP was cast into the lake of fire....at that time)
Christ doesn't torture ...anyone.
A person tortures themselves by not keeping G-d's laws/commandments.
The commandments show us we are all guilty of sin, so not to imagine we're better than others and God corrects the pride of mankind daily.
If I may tangent the question for a moment, God says there is wailing and gnashing of teeth going on among those in the lake of fire. Is there any connection between this, and the weeping and grinding of teeth described going on among those cast outside of the wedding feast?
Source Authority is our Lord, Jesus, Yeshua, however I never gave it another thought that it was not the same………. So spiritually it is the same to me. All blessings in Jesus Christ......j
The Wedding feast parable and the "outer darkness" -Matthew 22:1-11
Remember that Matthew was written to a Jewish audience, to emphasize Jesus as King and Messiah.
So we need to put on our Jewish sandals and think this through...
The Jewish marriages were performed in the night season, and the hall where the feast was made was greatly illuminated; the outer darkness means, therefore, the darkness on the outside of this festal hall.
[He had, by his action, if not in words, said, ‘I am a free man, and will do as I like.’ So the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him.’ Pinion him; let him never be free again. He had made too free with holy things; he had actively insulted the King.” (Spurgeon)]
This parable demonstrates that those indifferent to the gospel, those antagonistic against the gospel, and those unchanged by the gospel share the same fate. None of them enjoyed the king’s feast.
Remember that Matthew was written to a Jewish audience, to emphasize Jesus as King and Messiah.
So we need to put on our Jewish sandals and think this through...
The Jewish marriages were performed in the night season, and the hall where the feast was made was greatly illuminated; the outer darkness means, therefore, the darkness on the outside of this festal hall.
[He had, by his action, if not in words, said, ‘I am a free man, and will do as I like.’ So the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him.’ Pinion him; let him never be free again. He had made too free with holy things; he had actively insulted the King.” (Spurgeon)]
This parable demonstrates that those indifferent to the gospel, those antagonistic against the gospel, and those unchanged by the gospel share the same fate. None of them enjoyed the king’s feast.
Never said it was annihilation just the bible says destroyed or destruction and second death. If someone dies once and is resurrected and then dies again, how do you picture that. What would the point of resurrecting them again be.
Also matthew 25:46 in kjv translation
And these shall go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.
Now think about it...what is everlasting punishment is it really torture over and over, or is it just complete separation from God. We can understand eternal life...its forever. What is eternal death...is it the same.
What is the everlasting fire. Is it the fire that never burns out? But when you burn something isnt it destroyed. When you cremate someone dont they turn to ashes and they can never ever be made whole again. They are consumed. Otherwise are we looking for a future where we can watch, from our advantage point of heaven zombies walking round in hell ...forever. The living dead?
IM just asking Im not taking any position on this. As it does depend on ones interpretation. Because its not clear in different bible translations, some use the same word, some use a slightly diferent meaning. Why is there such a thing as the second death, as stated in Revelation if as some people say, or is theres a second eternity just for the wicked. When one is dead isnt one completely and utterly dead. In other words is their soul DEAD. Is it not perished?
Or does nothing ever completely die. Or does this only apply to human souls. Why would the vessels of wrath Not be fitted for destruction. Does babylon fall and then keep rising and falling again. Or is it burned utterly with fire?
Did God destroy sodom and gomorrah completely with fire and brimstone till was nothing left but a dead sea of salt or did he just kind of keep it under UV radiation forever just cos He liked to keep it constantly frying while watching the sodomites sizzle and squirm?
Just putting some scenarios out there that might boggle the mind. But maybe research what the words destruction and perish actually mean.
Also matthew 25:46 in kjv translation
And these shall go away to everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.
Now think about it...what is everlasting punishment is it really torture over and over, or is it just complete separation from God. We can understand eternal life...its forever. What is eternal death...is it the same.
What is the everlasting fire. Is it the fire that never burns out? But when you burn something isnt it destroyed. When you cremate someone dont they turn to ashes and they can never ever be made whole again. They are consumed. Otherwise are we looking for a future where we can watch, from our advantage point of heaven zombies walking round in hell ...forever. The living dead?
IM just asking Im not taking any position on this. As it does depend on ones interpretation. Because its not clear in different bible translations, some use the same word, some use a slightly diferent meaning. Why is there such a thing as the second death, as stated in Revelation if as some people say, or is theres a second eternity just for the wicked. When one is dead isnt one completely and utterly dead. In other words is their soul DEAD. Is it not perished?
Or does nothing ever completely die. Or does this only apply to human souls. Why would the vessels of wrath Not be fitted for destruction. Does babylon fall and then keep rising and falling again. Or is it burned utterly with fire?
Did God destroy sodom and gomorrah completely with fire and brimstone till was nothing left but a dead sea of salt or did he just kind of keep it under UV radiation forever just cos He liked to keep it constantly frying while watching the sodomites sizzle and squirm?
Just putting some scenarios out there that might boggle the mind. But maybe research what the words destruction and perish actually mean.
The problem with interpreting first century text, is that you have first century technology. Who knows what John saw...maybe not even John. He only described what he saw with limited understanding what he was looking at. When reading the Bible, I think we do ourselves a great disservice by literally interpreting each word. It’s a message not a textbook.
You're not on a tangent. The marriage feast is the oneness of Christ and his people. God says of his bride,
He does not fear bad news. He is confident; he trusts in the LORD....He will be vindicated and honored. When the wicked see this, they will worry; they will grind their teeth in frustration and melt away; the desire of the wicked will perish. Psa.112:7,9-10
I don't think he's saying the weeping and grinding of teeth lasts forever. The judgment is irrevocable.
Are there translations of the word “forever” in Scripture that don’t mean forever?