Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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U
Jesus is an internal reality, not an external model of good behaviour.
Are you so offended that your good works count for nothing towards your salvation?
Interesting.
We are in fellowship with Him, we are partakers of His divine essence, we yield to Him within us. We are His Workmanship, He is doing the molding, you on the other hand are trying to fashion yourself into being like Him by following for salvation!!!!
We live in Him and He in Us. There are no good works apart from this life of fellowship and what we do is to be His presence in this world, in real time
"Following" in your theology is for salvation..... you cannot follow Jesus for salvation.
For salvation we are called to believe the Gospel, the precursor to faith
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Those who trust in works for salvation often confuse ongoing sanctification (which involves our daily walk in our Christian life and growth towards maturity in Christ) with justification (having been justified/saved through faith). When justification gets confused with ongoing sanctification the end result is "performance based works salvation."
There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists:
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists:
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)
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I have often heard works-salvationists cite John 3:36 in the NAS translation of the Bible and stress the word "obey" the Son, then write a blank check with the word "obey" and fill out whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to be saved (water baptism, partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, obeying the commandments, performing works of charity etc..) and call that believing in the Son, yet they are actually believing in their works and not IN THE SON.
In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make "obedience" the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. *To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.
The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."
*In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.
In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make "obedience" the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. *To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.
The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."
*In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.
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U
.........And another thing one does not become Born Again, Blood Bought, Believer in Christ Jesus by agreeing to follow Him.
Really you need to go back and read the Bible.
We are called to believe that the work on the cross is efficacious to save completely and utterly since our righteousness is as filthy rags from God's perspective.
We are, Redeemed, Justified and Positionally Sanctified (set apart) in Christ Jesus.
We are called to live out this reality daily, we are not being made good, the flesh is not being redeemed, we are instead learning to conform to the spirit life of Jesus within us and this my dear can be a process.
Really you need to go back and read the Bible.
We are called to believe that the work on the cross is efficacious to save completely and utterly since our righteousness is as filthy rags from God's perspective.
We are, Redeemed, Justified and Positionally Sanctified (set apart) in Christ Jesus.
We are called to live out this reality daily, we are not being made good, the flesh is not being redeemed, we are instead learning to conform to the spirit life of Jesus within us and this my dear can be a process.
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TruthTalk obviously does not agree with you. To "not obey the Son" by refusing to believe in the Son is descriptive of unbelievers.
Be sure to go back and read (and meditate on) post #82,085.
Be sure to go back and read (and meditate on) post #82,085.
If we do not obey the Son...
it means we do not believe the Son.
If we believed the Son...
we would obey the Son.
Simple.
No need to write pages.
U