question about the Nature of God

[TheLearner]

I think this means that although all knees will bow and every tongue will confess, there does come a point in which it is too late to repent...because we know not all people will be saved. I think judgement day will definitely be too late. Also, I don't think there is any chance for repentance after death. One example can be found in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man seemed truly sorrowful, but was still in hell and torture anyhow. He even asked if he could send Lazarus to warn his brothers. There was no repentance for him and he seemed to know it was too late for him, but wanted someone to warn his brothers while they were still alive. Once again this is just some of my thoughts on it.

From historical context, Luke 16 is the grave between death and the resurrection. The Rich Man was appealing to Abraham, not repenting to God. Abraham can not forgive someone who has offended God, only God can forgive in that case.

 

[tourist]

On Judgement day if a person repents will they be forgiven?

Perhaps.

 

[tourist]

1 Peter 3:18-20 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 For indeed Christ died for sins once for all, the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty] so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; 19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

I know that those who teach a second chance after death quote the above text. What are the possible understandings of the text above?

The key word in that passage is 'once'.

 

[TheLearner]

It would be too late. That's why there are so many dire warnings in the Bible. And the Gospel says that the day of salvation is "Today".

"

"Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation" (2 Cor. 6:2)​

Many people read into this verse more than is actually stated and also, many English translations add more than is actually in the original Greek. The first part of that verse is a quote from the first part of Isaiah 49:8 which reads in the KJV:

"Thus saith the LORD, In _AN_ acceptable time have I heard thee, and in _A_ day of salvation have I helped thee:"​

For emphasis, underscores and caps have been added to two words ( _AN_ and _A_) in the above quote from Isaiah 49:8. Notice this verse reads "_AN_ acceptable time" and "_A_ day of salvation" and NOT "_the_ acceptable time" and NOT "_the_ day of salvation".

Now, again, the phrase in 2 Cor. 6:2 is:

"behold, now [is the] accepted time; behold, now [is the] day of salvation"​

Notice that brackets have been put around two words ( [is the] ) above. These words are not in the original Greek. Some of our English translations such as the KJV and NASB, put some words in italics that are not in the original, but they also fail to do so in some instances. The KJV does put the "is" in italics but fails to also put the "the" in italics to show that it is not a word in the original Greek. This can be misleading. You can check this with a Greek version or most Greek-English interlinear translations. Also, below is the way 2 Cor. 6:2 is translated in Young's Literal Translation and by Darby's translation (notice the words in brackets [ ] denoting that those words are not in the original Greek):

"for He saith, `In an acceptable time I did hear thee, and in a day of salvation I did help thee, lo, now [is] a well-accepted time; lo, now, a day of salvation,'" -- (YLT)
"(for he says, I have listened to thee in an accepted time, and I have helped thee in a day of salvation: behold, now [is the] well-accepted time; behold, now [the] day of salvation" -- (Darby's Translation)​

So, the thought given in this verse agrees with the Isaiah verse from which it is a quote that "an accepted time" and "a day of salvation, NOT "the accepted time" and NOT "the day of salvation". This means that now is an accepted time and now is a day of salvation but it IS NOT the ONLY accepted time and NOT the ONLY day of salvation. It is an accepted time and a day of salvation for that "special" salvation of the believer (1 Tim. 4:10).



"
https://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/today.html

 

[TheLearner]

A Time Of Salvation
Most Relevant Verses
2 Corinthians 6:2
Verse Concepts
for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"--

Romans 13:11
Verse Concepts
Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

Isaiah 49:8
Verse Concepts
Thus says the LORD, "In a favorable time I have answered You, And in a day of salvation I have helped You; And I will keep You and give You for a covenant of the people, To restore the land, to make them inherit the desolate heritages;

Isaiah 61:2
Verse Concepts
To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,

Luke 4:19
Verse Concepts
TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD."

Isaiah 63:4
Verse Concepts
"For the day of vengeance was in My heart, And My year of redemption has come.

Daniel 7:22
Verse Concepts
until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

Titus 1:3
Verse Concepts
but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,

 

[TheLearner]

I said what i said nothing more nothing less.. If a person has the will of God given to them in this life and the Way of salvation God has made for them to be saved and if they reject the will of God and His Way of salvation they will be damned..

Rejecting Jesus and His way of salvation will be what condemns them

To my knowledge there may be people who never rejected because they were never convicted of sins.

Also, at the Judgement every person still can talk right? What is to keep someone like myself from preaching the gospel to others there?

 

[TheLearner]

I said what i said nothing more nothing less.. If a person has the will of God given to them in this life and the Way of salvation God has made for them to be saved and if they reject the will of God and His Way of salvation they will be damned..

Rejecting Jesus and His way of salvation will be what condemns them

I doubt everyone has heard about Jesus. There are many people who celebrate Christmas who have no idea whom Jesus is.

The question is about the nature of God in the case where someone repents at the Judgement.

How is it possible for one to confess Jesus is Lord without having the Holy Spirit?

Remember Scripture says, no one can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheLearner]

The key word in that passage is 'once'.

Thank You tourist,
Daniel

 

[tourist]

I doubt everyone has heard about Jesus. There are many people who celebrate Christmas who have no idea whom Jesus is.

The question is about the nature of God in the case where someone repents at the Judgement.

How is it possible for one to confess Jesus is Lord without having the Holy Spirit?

Remember Scripture says, no one can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Thank You tourist,
Daniel

You are quite welcome sir.

 

[Adstar]

To my knowledge there may be people who never rejected because they were never convicted of sins.

Also, at the Judgement every person still can talk right? What is to keep someone like myself from preaching the gospel to others there?

People can and do resist the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin.. That's another reason why they shall be damned..

Yes they will be able to speak and they will be on their knees praising God because they will finally be in the presence of God.. Every knee shall bow to the LORD and then they who rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be judged and found guilty and cast into the eternal lake of fire..

 

[1ofthem]

From historical context, Luke 16 is the grave between death and the resurrection. The Rich Man was appealing to Abraham, not repenting to God. Abraham can not forgive someone who has offended God, only God can forgive in that case.

I think Revelations 20 clearly sums this up. Death and Hell or Hades whatever you want to call it will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

There are two resurrections. The first is those that died in Christ. It says blessed and holy are they and they shall not take part of the second death.

Then those that died lost will be resurrected the second resurrections and they will be judged from the book of life according to their works. It's clear to me, these are the lost and their is no hope for them because they are being judged by their works from when they were alive and rejected Jesus. Once again they will bow and confess, we know this because the Lord swore by himself and said As I Live all knees will bow and all tongues confess. However, there is no chance of getting saved at this point it is too late. It is the judgement.

 

[1ofthem]

Revelations 20
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[posthuman]

Luke 16:31
He said to him,
'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

 

[TheLearner]

People can and do resist the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin.. That's another reason why they shall be damned..

Yes they will be able to speak and they will be on their knees praising God because they will finally be in the presence of God.. Every knee shall bow to the LORD and then they who rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be judged and found guilty and cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

So, it is possible to preach to the dead. It is also possible for those who have died to repent.
If every one is confessing with their mouth Jesus is Lord which is only possible by the Holy Spirit, then it would logically mean they believe too.
Therefore, they would be saved after death.

Personally, I would never wait, but there is hope for those who died. Even for those who did not believe the Gospel in this life.

 

[TheLearner]

I think Revelations 20 clearly sums this up. Death and Hell or Hades whatever you want to call it will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

There are two resurrections. The first is those that died in Christ. It says blessed and holy are they and they shall not take part of the second death.

Then those that died lost will be resurrected the second resurrections and they will be judged from the book of life according to their works. It's clear to me, these are the lost and their is no hope for them because they are being judged by their works from when they were alive and rejected Jesus. Once again they will bow and confess, we know this because the Lord swore by himself and said As I Live all knees will bow and all tongues confess. However, there is no chance of getting saved at this point it is too late. It is the judgement.

Matthew 25:31-36 King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

This text shows us only one competed resurrection of the dead and there is enough of a gap between both general results, pronouncements. Those of us who know the scriptures can shout out "repent and believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead". We know the Holy Spirit is present because He is God.

 

[TheLearner]

Luke 16:31
He said to him,
'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

In context Abraham is speaking of the Rich Man's relatives, not about every human being that ever existed.

 

[TheLearner]

Also, after an unbeliever dies they go to the torture side of the grave which is a good indicator they were wrong while on earth. God is present in the grave right?

Isaiah 14:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Psalm 139:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

From these texts we know that people have an awareness in the grave and the Holy Spirit is present. Therefore the possibility of repentance exists.

Would not a rational being add all this up and repent?

 

[TheLearner]

People have had up to 2,000 years in the grave to realize their mistakes.

 

[1ofthem]

Matthew 25:31-36 King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

This text shows us only one competed resurrection of the dead and there is enough of a gap between both general results, pronouncements. Those of us who know the scriptures can shout out "repent and believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead". We know the Holy Spirit is present because He is God.

I've always been taught that the dead in Christ shall rise first and this is the first resurrection.

In 1 Thessalonians 4 Paul also talks about the first resurrection
verse 16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Here is an article about it. It's a little long so I haven't read it all just yet, but what I read so far does seem to make sense.

https://bible.org/seriespage/4-two-resurrections

 

[1ofthem]

People have had up to 2,000 years in the grave to realize their mistakes.

I really don't think so because if people were given a chance after death. I'm pretty sure they would all repent and get saved. We know not all will get saved and hell is going to be full because many will take that broad way to destruction.

We've all only got to the end of our own life to repent and be saved. We live, we die, and then the judgement. Just how I see it, anyhow.