Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull said:
James here is striving against easy believism or licentiousness.
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Easy believism is an absolutely horrible modern day slur against those who do NOT ascribe to Lordship Salvation ( a terrible problem in the Church that has created a bunch of fruit inspectors)

One either believes or one does not. One is either saved or they are not.

They others either do not know they full Gospel or they are imposters.

James main focus is not easy believism he makes it very very clear his topic the Living the

Profitable Christian Life.....how to behave once one is Justified.

Let's just agree to disagree since the modern day church has abandoned Context, quite ironic that Calvin as well agreed that the topic was not about saving faith, but faith after salvation
 
Rosemaryx said:
Hi all...
Just finished reading 2 Timothy , and when I read this Scripture , I see it for what it is...
2 TIMOTHY 1:9 Who has SAVED us and called us with a holy calling , NOT according to our WORKS , but according to His OWN ourpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity...xox...
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Amen Rose......all glory goes to Christ........faith is what saves a man....not faith plus some rigmarole give the dog a bone works or religious hoop jumping.....
 
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BillG said:
So the Bible tells me so.
And which I posted and was refuted.
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I know bro.........such a tragic day coming for all that blend faith plus anything into a message they believe will save........a false gospel, no matter how good it sounds, will not save a man........

Many will say in that day, Lord, Lord have we not...........
 
Argueless said:
You will be shocked when He comes at a time you don't expect Him.

...I know your deeds;you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, i will come like a thief and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelations 3:1-3
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Using scripture out if context is a huge problem it seems. :(

Actually it is those who do not know by faith they are eternally secure that will be shocked, because like cramming for exams you will not be sure if you quite studied enough.

Jesus is the author and finisher of the work so I have no worries.
 
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UnderGrace said:
Easy believism is an absolutely horrible modern day slur against those who do NOT ascribe to Lordship Salvation ( a terrible problem in the Church that has created a bunch of fruit inspectors)

One either believes or one does not. One is either saved or they are not.

They others either do not know they full Gospel or they are imposters.

James main focus is not easy believism he makes it very very clear his topic the Living the

Profitable Christian Life.....how to behave once one is Justified.

Let's just agree to disagree since the modern day church has abandoned Context, quite ironic that Calvin as well agreed that the topic was not about saving faith, but faith after salvation
Click to expand...

Easy believism, licentiousness, belief only (whatever people want to call it) is a part of the church, i have witnessed it, to say it is not an issue is just not true,

While it is also used by those who do not ascribe to lordship salvation, it does not mean it is not an issue,

James asked the question, can that faith save them. To say that salvic faith is not in question you would have to remove james words. I can’t do this sis. Because james plainly asks, can this dead faith save a person?

But yes, we can agree to disagree, still love ya!
 
lightbearer said:
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Christ in us the Hope of Glory!
(Deu 30:6;Col 2:11; Rom 2:29 KJV)



If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, (the word) and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. (The circumcision made without hands.)
(Deu 30:11-1)

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
For Christ (through which the word is in the Heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and ink on parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth. The circumcision made without hands; Christ in us the Hope of Glory.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Rom 10:6-8,4; Heb 10:14-16)
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I know my questions seem very simple, but they're actually very deep.
The above is just stating that Jesus fulfilled the O.T.

The two questions were:
1. If the good news was also in the O.T., as @dcontroversal stated....then what IS the good news the N.T. speaks of?

2. If it's already present in the O.T.,,, why did Jesus have to die?

The answers are actually very simple but require knowing some concepts.

1. The good news is that Jesus is our Savior. So? People were saved in the O.T. too.
A. Jesus breaks satan's dominion over those that wish to follow Him.
B. Jesus frees us from the bondage to sin.
C. Jesus wins death because He shows us that death is not to be feared...as it was in the O.T. when it was not certain what happened to a person's soul after life.
D. Jesus shows us, personally, how to live a better life while here on Earth....which is good for us.
Not only with the commandments....but by explaining how we are to be changed from the inside out.
(born again).
E. Jesus assures us a place in heaven IF we believe Him and follow Him throughout our life.


2. Faith saved even in the O.T. So why did Jesus HAVE to die?
To give us access to heaven....to open the gates to heaven.
Luke 16:19.....
Mark 13:37-38
 
UnderGrace said:
Using scripture out if context is a huge problem it seems. :(

Actually it is those who do not know by faith they are eternally secure that will be shocked, because like cramming for exams you will not be sure if you quite studied enough.

Jesus is the author and finisher of the work so I have no worries.
Click to expand...
How do YOU know you have enough FAITH?
 
UnderGrace said:
Easy believism is an absolutely horrible modern day slur against those who do NOT ascribe to Lordship Salvation ( a terrible problem in the Church that has created a bunch of fruit inspectors)

One either believes or one does not. One is either saved or they are not.

They others either do not know they full Gospel or they are imposters.

James main focus is not easy believism he makes it very very clear his topic the Living the

Profitable Christian Life.....how to behave once one is Justified.

Let's just agree to disagree since the modern day church has abandoned Context, quite ironic that Calvin as well agreed that the topic was not about saving faith, but faith after salvation
Click to expand...
LOL
YOU practice easy believism!!
YOU don't know what Lordship Salvation is.

You should find out.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
You just hurt your own argument

James said what does it profit a man if he CLAIMS to have faith.

One who claims they have faith is making a profession of faith

James is asking, can a dead faith save, the answer is not.

Since work is a natural by product of faith, true living faith will produce works, there is no ands if or buts about it

So james is telling his readers, if you CLAIM you have faith, but have no work can that faith save you? Not to add works, but to verify your faith, as abraham did decades after he was saved by faith.
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JAMES SAID:

Faith WITHOUT WORKS is dead.
James 2:17

WHY?
Because it is BY ITSELF.

It is of NO VALUE...
FAith, by ITSELF, is valueless.

It helps NO ONE.

Not you
and not those around you.

IT IS DEAD.



UFFA.
 
GodsGrace101 said:
LOL
YOU practice easy believism!!
YOU don't know what Lordship Salvation is.

You should find out.
Click to expand...

I know more than you I am absolutely sure of this. I had a library of over 300 books most of which I gave away.

And accusing me of easy believism just reveals insecurity,

I see that the workers for salvation are the ones that believe the easy way, the broad road, they say "I can earn and keep my own salvation"

So, so ironic that those who do not believe in the complete gospel of the finished work of Christ Jesus are actually the ones who believe easy, the believe half the gospel which is far more easy than the complete gospel which is completely offensive.

The truly offensive gospel is the narrow path, the one who knows they are not saved by trying to save themselves

Easy believism are those who ridicule Grace and promote works (Lordship Salvation) which is the Broad Path
 
BillG said:
How do you know if you have enough works?:cool:
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HAHAHAHHA 1 work or a 1,000,000 matters not.....men are saved eternally by faith before any work is ever done ......faith plus anything to gain, keep, top off, maintain or finish salvation = poppycock and false......
 
dcontroversal said:
Like normal you ask a loaded question......Show me a verse that said JESUS HAD to die and I will say....He chose to give up his life and then take it back up again because he had this commandment from the Heavenly Father......

a. To work the will of the Heavenly Father
b. To reconcile man unto God
c. To pay the sins of the whole world
d. To redeem humanity/creation
e. To conquer death

and this list is not conclusive and or exclusive.............

Boiled down the gospel (good news)--->Men can be reconciled unto God dia faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. <----ONE of numerous "Correct messages" in the bible.....

Obviously only one GOSPEL message of SALVATION......


This is a SUMMATION......
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Thanks for answering.
I don't ask "loaded" questions...I'm just trying to get to the root of ideas.

You see D, it's all wording.
You say Jesus volunteered to die.
I say He HAD to die.
Which is it?
Could Jesus have said no?
Didn't God make the 2nd person of the Trinity be born so that He could go to the cross so mankind could be freed from the sin problem?

This is the same as saying we obey because we love...
and we must obey. Same thing.

Anyway, yes, all you say is true.
You left out to open heaven's gates to us who had been denied entry in the O.T. times.

See my post no. 81,887.
 
GodsGrace101 said:
JAMES SAID:

Faith WITHOUT WORKS is dead.
James 2:17

WHY?
Because it is BY ITSELF.

It is of NO VALUE...
FAith, by ITSELF, is valueless.

It helps NO ONE.

Not you
and not those around you.

IT IS DEAD.



UFFA.
Click to expand...

He said "LIKE A".....NOT "IS"...........and again....conflating ideas = false gospel...his address is a MERE belief in GOD...not saving faith!!

Wake up Fran to the truth and be set free from your legalism.....

Therefore, we conclude that a MAN is justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.
 
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