Why was Cain's offering rejected by God?
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for sure i'm not trying to imply that the offerings Cain & Abel made were specifically made in accordance with a Law that came much later. but the Law gives principles for offerings -- the argument is, if God does not change, and God only accepts blood for any offering whatsoever then why does God give regulations for and accept offerings later that don't have blood?
i'm not sure what connection you're making between the fat of Abel's offering being included and 'unto thee shall be his desire' ?
could you elaborate please?
a plant taken out of the ground is just as dead as any animal can be. both go back to dust. so it's not as though there is no 'death' involved in a sacrifice of vegetable matter -- e.g. John 12:24, "unless a kernel of wheat falls to the earth and dies"
i'm not sure what connection you're making between the fat of Abel's offering being included and 'unto thee shall be his desire' ?
could you elaborate please?
a plant taken out of the ground is just as dead as any animal can be. both go back to dust. so it's not as though there is no 'death' involved in a sacrifice of vegetable matter -- e.g. John 12:24, "unless a kernel of wheat falls to the earth and dies"
Am just putting out there that maybe abel was smarter than Cain by keeping sheep, while Cain chose to till the ground that was cursed. But it could have been adam and eve made that choice for them or told them to do those things.
But if Cain was smart he would have realised the ground was cursed with thorns and thistles and nothing good could come of it. After all they were banned from the garden of eden thanks to their parents and couldnt access the tree of life.
God said to Cain if thou doest well shall, thou not be accepted? What is it about keeping sheep that was acceptable...? Note that Jesus talks about being the good shepherd, telling Peter to feed my sheep, feed my lambs. Note too that David was a shepherd boy, proecting his lambs.
Note that jesus was declared the Lamb of God.
Was it anything to do with SHEEP? no other animal was offered...and they had all kinds of animals then too.
But if Cain was smart he would have realised the ground was cursed with thorns and thistles and nothing good could come of it. After all they were banned from the garden of eden thanks to their parents and couldnt access the tree of life.
God said to Cain if thou doest well shall, thou not be accepted? What is it about keeping sheep that was acceptable...? Note that Jesus talks about being the good shepherd, telling Peter to feed my sheep, feed my lambs. Note too that David was a shepherd boy, proecting his lambs.
Note that jesus was declared the Lamb of God.
Was it anything to do with SHEEP? no other animal was offered...and they had all kinds of animals then too.
if agriculture is contrary to God's will it seems like we'd be able to find at least one place in the Bible where God condemns farming.
but Genesis 2:15 states Adam was placed in the garden to tend it, and Genesis 3:17-19 stipulates that Adam would eat from the ground all the days of his life ((v.17)) food from the ground ((v.18)) by the sweat of his brow ((v.19)) -- strong evidence that working the ground was both instructed and approved.
i read the book of Ruth this morning -- no mention of keeping livestock, lots of mention about farming barley. no condemnation of farming.
if it is the case that Cain's *sin* is that he *farmed* and *failed to raise livestock* then where is that principle in the rest of scripture?
but Genesis 2:15 states Adam was placed in the garden to tend it, and Genesis 3:17-19 stipulates that Adam would eat from the ground all the days of his life ((v.17)) food from the ground ((v.18)) by the sweat of his brow ((v.19)) -- strong evidence that working the ground was both instructed and approved.
i read the book of Ruth this morning -- no mention of keeping livestock, lots of mention about farming barley. no condemnation of farming.
if it is the case that Cain's *sin* is that he *farmed* and *failed to raise livestock* then where is that principle in the rest of scripture?
they used fig leaves previously. obviously animal skins are not the only source of clothing. how much cotton are you personally wearing right now, compared to how much leather & hides?
but yes, fabric & milk? neither of which is strictly a necessity -- if they are 100% vegetarian, Cain is in fact the one working at something that involves their sustenance, isn't he? so by presenting produce vs. an animal that they aren't using for food, Cain's offering is actually the one that's more 'sacrificial' in a certain sense.
if he's offering the best of the harvest / firstfruits. if he's offering second-rate foodstuff, it's not so sacrificial.
but yes, fabric & milk? neither of which is strictly a necessity -- if they are 100% vegetarian, Cain is in fact the one working at something that involves their sustenance, isn't he? so by presenting produce vs. an animal that they aren't using for food, Cain's offering is actually the one that's more 'sacrificial' in a certain sense.
if he's offering the best of the harvest / firstfruits. if he's offering second-rate foodstuff, it's not so sacrificial.
another tangent here --
did Adam & Eve need an extra set of duds? God made them clothing - what kind of quality level are we talking about here? did they wear out? did they keep them in a closet and only wear them for special occasions? were they discarded? were they passed down to Cain & Abel ((or Seth))? if they were passed down how long did they keep being passed down? were these special at all or really very temporary?
so what did Cain & Abel clothe themselves with?
fig leaves ((as their parents first-best-attempt at clothing themselves?))
animal skins of their own?
cloth woven from hair/wool?
did God make clothes for them as well?
did Adam & Eve need an extra set of duds? God made them clothing - what kind of quality level are we talking about here? did they wear out? did they keep them in a closet and only wear them for special occasions? were they discarded? were they passed down to Cain & Abel ((or Seth))? if they were passed down how long did they keep being passed down? were these special at all or really very temporary?
so what did Cain & Abel clothe themselves with?
fig leaves ((as their parents first-best-attempt at clothing themselves?))
animal skins of their own?
cloth woven from hair/wool?
did God make clothes for them as well?
When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.
(Genesis 4:12)
(Genesis 4:12)
God doesn't instruct Cain to stop farming or to start keeping livestock. He presumes Cain's vocation will remain his vocation, but pronounces that it will no longer be fruitful. He doesn't give Cain the alternative, 'you will become an animal-tender' but that he will be a restless wanderer.
that's kind of significant if i have the idea that Cain's error was not keeping sheep/cows/etc -- why doesn't God instruct him to do so? doesn't God normally instruct people He disciplines to repent, and to take the right path? it's implicit that Cain should not commit any more murder, but there's no language here indicating he should take up being a shepherd.
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Yes, we really don't know how all that worked.
It seems to me that Moses may have written the first five books in somewhat reverse order.
Recording events he was wirness too first and the law God was giving to the Israelites through him.
Then Exodus and finally Genesis as the last to be written. Or the end of Deuteronomy. (after Genesis)
He would have had the counsel of all the elders of Israel to help compile the books.
Then the books were ordered chronologically for reading order purposes. Not sure.
It seems to me that Moses may have written the first five books in somewhat reverse order.
Recording events he was wirness too first and the law God was giving to the Israelites through him.
Then Exodus and finally Genesis as the last to be written. Or the end of Deuteronomy. (after Genesis)
He would have had the counsel of all the elders of Israel to help compile the books.
Then the books were ordered chronologically for reading order purposes. Not sure.
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