Why was Cain's offering rejected by God?

[GodsGrace101]

Genesis 4:1-3
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.

Of course Cain worked the soil....
It started with Adam,
Genesis 3:17-19

 

[GodsGrace101]

ah, haha!

i seriously thought you were just making a cow joke

I think you need a nap!!

 

[posthuman]

Sheep require a lot of work too...

in the final analysis i think we have to confess that though human labor is involved in keeping both, increase in produce and animals is ultimately God's own work -- 'God gives the increase' tho one plants and another waters, and it's Him who 'formed me in the womb'

probably this is the principle behind offering firstfruits and redeeming firstborn, in the first place

 

[GodsGrace101]

in the final analysis i think we have to confess that though human labor is involved in keeping both, increase in produce and animals is ultimately God's own work -- 'God gives the increase' tho one plants and another waters, and it's Him who 'formed me in the womb'

probably this is the principle behind offering firstfruits and redeeming firstborn, in the first place

Well PH
If you want to look at it that way, of course God causes EVERYTHING to happen.
He holds up the universe....thermodynamics --- If HE stops,,,everything dies.

But....

If I don't water my flowers -
they die.

This is what I mean about doing God's work...
we have to do some of it, don't we???
He's not doing it ALL !

 

[PennEd]

while i agree that it's significant that Cain's offering was from 'the sweat of his brow' ((re: Gen 3:19)), as Miri pointed out there are grain offerings ((& even a feast of firstfruits)) prescribed in Moses, so i have reservations about presuming that offering produce from the ground in and of itself is unacceptable.

the point RoboOp made about any language of 'firstfruits' being absent in the description of Cain's offering fits here

I'm pretty sure there were no grain offerings, or grain offering requirements, BEFORE the Law and Moses. BESIDES Cain.

 

[posthuman]

I checked 3 bibles before asking you....

You're not telling me the version!

that's NIV -- and i went and checked, and the word 'some' isn't literally there; it literally reads '..brought fruit of the ground'

my point tho, is that Abel's offering is specified to be firstborn, but the language of first-fruits is ((conspicuously)) absent in the description of Cain's offering. in that respect it doesn't matter whether it was 'some fruits' or just 'fruits'

if this is representative of a firstfruits/thanksgiving/freewill offering, then the issue could be Cain kept back the best bits for himself.
if this is representative of a sin/guilt offering, and it's really all about a lack of blood, then i'm forced into taking a view that Cain's sin was either not being a shepherd as a vocation ((kind of damning farmers)) or that Cain's sin was not taking some of Abel's livestock. we never see agriculture condemned in scripture - Genesis 3 pretty clearly lays it out as Adam's burden to do - so i'm left with saying Cain was supposed to offer what didn't belong to him, namely, some of Abel's 'secondborn' animals. and that makes very little sense; it would be the same situation that Newton describes, offering what it didn't matter to you to keep or lose and what you had no hand in producing at all.

 

[FlyingDove]

NOTE: Leviticus 2:12, a ((bloodless)) grain offering may be presented as a firstfruits offering



** are we looking at a sin offering or a firstfruits, peace or a thanksgiving offering? or something else? **

first·ling
[ˈfərstliNG]
NOUN
firstlings (plural noun)
the first agricultural produce or animal offspring of a season.

Firstling in the scripture I posted means 1st animal offspring of a season

first fruits
[ˈˌfərs(t) ˈfro͞ots]
NOUN
firstfruits (plural noun)
the first agricultural produce of a season, especially when given as an offering to God.
synonyms:
sacrifice · oblation · burnt offering · peace offering · thank-offering · immolation · libation · first fruits · tribute · dedication · prasad · puja · Omer · sin offering

Firstfruit = 1st of the grain harvest. Read the synonyms sacrifice · burnt offering · peace offering · thank-offering. All applicable to my post.

Find additional info here: https://www.gotquestions.org/oblation.html

Also, I ended my post with MOO = My opinion only!

 

[Sketch]

I'm pretty sure there were no grain offerings, or grain offering requirements, BEFORE the Law and Moses. BESIDES Cain.

The passage is interesting in this regard.

It says, "In the course of time..." - vs 3
So, this seemed to be an established practice offer something to the Lord from time to time.
It also indicates that Cain lead in the activity in regard to his brother. "And Abel also brought an offering..." - vs 4
And that those who brought offerings had some way of knowing whether God found it favorable or not.

Genesis 4:2-5
Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

 

[Sketch]

if this is representative of a firstfruits/thanksgiving/freewill offering, then the issue could be Cain kept back the best bits for himself.

The passage indicates that the offering was made "In the curse of time..." Gen.4:3
So, this seemed to be an established practice offer something to the Lord from time to time.

One thing that is rarely considered in all this is the population of the planet at the time.
If you consider the age reached in lifespan in those days and the age of fertile young to produce offspring and that Cain built a city when he was driven away...

The narrative makes the family sound small. But odds are that there was a very populated planet by this time. We are not given the ages of Cain and Abel at this time. And the age-old question: Where did Cain get his wife?" (his sister or a niece, obviously)

 

[Ahwatukee]

no argument about bloodshed for the forgiveness of sin.
you are making the assumption, however, that Cain and Abel brought offerings for forgiveness of guilt/sin and i'm not sure whether that assumption is justified. i don't see it in the text..?

every sin or guilt offering in the Law was with blood. bloodless offerings were also in the Law tho - the wave / sheave offering, the firstfruits, the consecrated bread etc. so it's evident that altho blood is required for forgiveness of sin, it's not required *in general* for an offering to be acceptable. Leviticus 2 is an example, laying out the general strictures for grain offerings. of interest there:

• it must contain no yeast or honey ((v.11))
• it may be presented as a firstfruits offering ((v.12))
• it must include salt ((v.13))

Regardless posthuman, that is the teaching behind Cain and Abel's offerings.

 

[posthuman]

I'm pretty sure there were no grain offerings, or grain offering requirements, BEFORE the Law and Moses. BESIDES Cain.

for that matter as far as the record goes there were no sin offerings or actually any required offerings at all described until Moses & the Law. unless we count Isaac? or there may be an example i'm overlooking..

so for my part, ((MOO!)) i think we're looking at freewill offerings, which later, in the Law, are described as acceptable being either with or without blood. as far as what we've all discussed tho it's not been established; probably the lack of any requirements being laid out in scripture even for the building of an altar until Exodus 20 is the best evidence that they must be a kind of freewill offering, indeed all offerings before a Law is given requiring them would seem to have to be freewill or thanksgiving in nature because these are the types of offerings that are not demanded

 

[posthuman]

Regardless posthuman, that is the teaching behind Cain and Abel's offerings.

well, infant baptism is 'the teaching' since Augustine, but historical semi-precedence or ubiquity doesn't make it the correct teaching.

 

[posthuman]

The passage indicates that the offering was made "In the curse of time..." Gen.4:3
So, this seemed to be an established practice offer something to the Lord from time to time.

hmm that phrasing would corroborate a firstfruits/harvest scenario, and challenge a sin/guilt scenario.
but it would be a weak argument, because 'in the course of time' may equally just mean 'some time later' in the narrative.
i.e. when the children had grown ((since the previous verse is the record of their birth))

 

[Sketch]

Regardless posthuman, that is the teaching behind Cain and Abel's offerings.

The standard teaching.
That is what this thread is questioning. The text in question does not support the standard teaching.
That's what this is about.

 

[Sketch]

hmm that phrasing would corroborate a firstfruits/harvest scenario, and challenge a sin/guilt scenario.
but it would be a weak argument, because 'in the course of time' may equally just mean 'some time later' in the narrative.
i.e. when the children had grown ((since the previous verse is the record of their birth))

The way the passage reads, it seems that periodic offerings were the norm.
What makes this different from the norm was what came of it. Cain murdering his brother.
It's not a story about offerings as much as what led to the first recorded murder.

Genesis 4:2-5
Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

 

[JohnRH]

Both brothers brought an offering from their occupation.

No one said they had to.

Cain could have offered a lamb. All he had to do was go to Abel's Flock Mart and plunk down two cucumbers and a cherry. (The cherry was for the lamb and the cucumbers were Uncle Sam's cut.) Righteous Abel would have been glad to give his big bro the family discount.

Most of us are not keepers of sheep. We're quite capable of offering to the Lord what is acceptable if we choose to.

 

[posthuman]

The way the passage reads, it seems that periodic offerings were the norm.
What makes this different from the norm was what came of it. Cain murdering his brother.
It's not a story about offerings as much as what led to the first recorded murder.

Genesis 4:2-5
Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

that raises ((an incomplete list of)) questions:

• was this the first time Cain's offering was rejected and Abel's accepted?
• was this the first time they had brought offerings?
• how often did they do this?
• who taught them to do this? were they commanded or was it their custom?
• did Adam & Eve do it too?
• was it commemorating some event? what event?
• is there a complementary recurring offering in the Law?
• if so which one? e.g. firstfruits? Yom Kippur?
• why would they repeat the same offerings?
• did they make them with the expectation that they would have to continue making them?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

All born again Christians place their Faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary for salvation. But few Christians place and maintain their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary for sanctification. In other words their Faith may be in Christ but not the Cross, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." The Apostle Paul calls this "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4). Christ must never be separated from the Work of the Cross; to do so is to produce "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4).

God accepts the slain lamb and rejects the offered fruit; and the offering being rejected, so of necessity is the offerer.

 

[posthuman]

did Cain murder Abel out of blind, unpremeditated rage, or did he think that the 'problem of the offerings' would be somehow fixed if Abel were taken out of the picture?

is Cain stupid? even tho they may be wrong, what's his reasoning? when he kills his brother, is he acting according to a kind of logic or is he purely acting out of emotion, because of envy & hatred?

 

[newton3003]

the inference directly contradicts verse 2: "Cain worked the ground"

Is it the same ground that Cain pulled the fruit out of? If so, then God must have disdain for every farmer that raised crops from that time on. Doesn't make sense. Does that mean that crop farmers don't go to Heaven?