Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Then you haven't read the thread "praying in tongues" have you?
I do appreciate his wisdom concerning this thread though.
I do appreciate his wisdom concerning this thread though.
I'm not learning from @dcontroversal !
I like to go to the source.
It would be interesting to know why you think he has wisdom concerning this thread
and why others that say to obey God do not.
Seems like another conflict to me....
-
1
- Show all
And what does this same thing mean?
What are the works of the law?
What is the law?
How many types of Law are there?
Are they still in effect?
Which ones are or are not?
Lots to go through.
Instead of just talking about it, how about explaining it?
I have many times and will no longer explain for persons that do not hear.
What are the works of the law?
What is the law?
How many types of Law are there?
Are they still in effect?
Which ones are or are not?
Lots to go through.
Instead of just talking about it, how about explaining it?
I have many times and will no longer explain for persons that do not hear.
It was by or "out of" faith that Abel offered a sacrifice. Abel's faith was evidenced by his obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous (Hebrews 11:4). His offering was evidence of his faith (James 2:18). Cain, who was of the evil one, instead demonstrated an evil heart by evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a righteous heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by or "out of" faith and Cain did not. Cain's offering demonstrated a lack of faith. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.
-
4
- Show all
Be my guest.
Jesus had just revealed to His disciples that He must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Matthew 16:21; Mark 8:31) Peter was not prepared for this new revelation of the Messiah’s purpose and apparently could not reconcile his view of the conquering Messiah with the suffering and death Jesus spoke of. So Peter rebuked Jesus for having such a mindset. Peter was inadvertently being used of Satan in thinking that he was protecting Jesus, yet Jesus rebuked Peter. Although Peter truly believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) he turned from God’s perspective in this situation and viewed the situation from man’s perspective, which brought about the rebuke from Jesus: “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mark 8:33). This does not mean that Peter was also a devil.
It does not help your case at all. John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' Do you think by Jesus choosing Judas, that must mean Judas was saved or that Judas was included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus, He kept?"
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or, this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.
In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, so although this power was from Jesus, He still referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons (and His name did have that power) but Judas did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
Jesus said send them out "as" sheep among wolves, which does not mean that Judas "was" truly a sheep. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.
"Unbelieving/unclean devil/who would betray Jesus/son of perdition" is not descriptive language of a sheep. Judas was NEVER a sheep of Jesus. In John 10:27-29, Jesus said - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Does that describe Judas Iscariot? NO. Does betraying Jesus represent following Him? NO. Did Jesus give Judas eternal life? NO. Did Judas perish? YES. So much for your theories.
How about a little context. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. This was still yet future and nothing is said about Judas experiencing this and he did not live that long. During His ministry, Jesus sent the 12 to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel. Your Father present in Judas theory falls short, but still applies to the remaining 11 disciples.
What does scripture say about Judas?
Judas was an unbelieving devil who would betray Jesus and Jesus knew this from the beginning. John 6:64-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas was not kept and was the son of perdition. John 17:12
Does that sound like "saved" to you?
Jesus had just revealed to His disciples that He must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Matthew 16:21; Mark 8:31) Peter was not prepared for this new revelation of the Messiah’s purpose and apparently could not reconcile his view of the conquering Messiah with the suffering and death Jesus spoke of. So Peter rebuked Jesus for having such a mindset. Peter was inadvertently being used of Satan in thinking that he was protecting Jesus, yet Jesus rebuked Peter. Although Peter truly believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) he turned from God’s perspective in this situation and viewed the situation from man’s perspective, which brought about the rebuke from Jesus: “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mark 8:33). This does not mean that Peter was also a devil.
It does not help your case at all. John 13:18 - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' Do you think by Jesus choosing Judas, that must mean Judas was saved or that Judas was included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus, He kept?"
John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost.
Syllogism
1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father
Or, this way.
1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.
In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease, so although this power was from Jesus, He still referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons (and His name did have that power) but Judas did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
Jesus said send them out "as" sheep among wolves, which does not mean that Judas "was" truly a sheep. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.
"Unbelieving/unclean devil/who would betray Jesus/son of perdition" is not descriptive language of a sheep. Judas was NEVER a sheep of Jesus. In John 10:27-29, Jesus said - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Does that describe Judas Iscariot? NO. Does betraying Jesus represent following Him? NO. Did Jesus give Judas eternal life? NO. Did Judas perish? YES. So much for your theories.
How about a little context. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. This was still yet future and nothing is said about Judas experiencing this and he did not live that long. During His ministry, Jesus sent the 12 to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel. Your Father present in Judas theory falls short, but still applies to the remaining 11 disciples.
What does scripture say about Judas?
Judas was an unbelieving devil who would betray Jesus and Jesus knew this from the beginning. John 6:64-71
Judas was a traitor. Luke 6:16
Judas was a betrayer. Multiple verses.
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor. John 12:6
Judas was unclean. John 13:11
Judas guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11
Judas was not kept and was the son of perdition. John 17:12
Does that sound like "saved" to you?
You have your own way of twisting scripture and I will not reply to this post.
John 6:64
64
1. “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe,
2. and who it was that would betray Him. "
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Must go.
Just want to say that ONCE AGAIN
the bible speaks of DEEDS.
Your verse 1 John 3:12
12not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.
Cain's deeds were evil...
because he was of the evil one.
Abel's deeds were RIGHTEOUS, because he was obedient to God's requirements.
What I've been saying all along....
We must be obedient to God's requirements if we are born again.
(this is not a request by God)
Just want to say that ONCE AGAIN
the bible speaks of DEEDS.
Your verse 1 John 3:12
12not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.
Cain's deeds were evil...
because he was of the evil one.
Abel's deeds were RIGHTEOUS, because he was obedient to God's requirements.
What I've been saying all along....
We must be obedient to God's requirements if we are born again.
(this is not a request by God)