Not only are we not under the law, we should not try to abide by it.

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Adam4Eve

Active member
#1
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#1
"If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant"
Romans 4:14

"Christians are not under the law"
Romans 6:14

"The law brings wrath upon those who follow it"
Romans 4:15

"To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid” "
Galatians 3:1

"The law has nothing to do with faith"
Galatians 3:11-12


Lead a life that God permits, but do not comply with old testament law.

The only people who will have you comply with some parts of old testament law are those who wish to take advantage of you for their own gain (tithing serves as an example).
But as we know...

"The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly"
Galatians 3:10


http://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10/37-scriptures-that-prove-christians-are-not-under-the-law/
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#4
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#4
The Law was never intended to be kept, because it can't be kept. No one can/could keep the Law. Not even the Jews to whom it was given. To break a single part of the Law meant you've broken it all. The Law was/is intended to show that we can not live up to God's standard (perfection). It was/is a mirror to show how dirty in sin we are.

It's only a schoolmaster to drive us to the Savior.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#5
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#5
Adam4Eve said:
Thanks for approving admin.
Click to expand...
Good post. People who try to be justified by the Law are debtors to keep all of it. But you can't, because that would mean sacrificing Bullock's for sin, turtledoves for your child, etc

The ceremonial and letter of the law was fulfilled by Jesus. Matthew 5: 17

The spiritual intent of the Law is fulfilled by walking in the Spirit and in love. Romans 8:4; Gal. 5:14

The apostles agreed together that circumcision should not be laid upon Gentile believers. Acts 15

The dietary law is rescinded in Acts 10, "arise, Peter, and eat ". Paul also taught that Christians are at liberty to eat foods once thought unclean.

Paul's told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them in regards to holy days or Sabbath's which are mere shadows, the substance being Christ

The entire ceremonial law is shadow. When the Light comes, the shadows pass away. See Hebrews 8:13

The ceremonial and dietary Law was a protective barrier to separate Jew from Gentile to keep Israel holy and separate. Jesus came, and removed that wall of separation. See book of Ephesians

If you offend in one point of the moral law, you are guilty of breaking all of it. Therefore, no one is justified by keeping the Law.

No one was ever justified by the Law. Justification has always been by faith

The blood of bulls and goats never removed sin. It only provided a "forebearance" until Jesus came and paid it all in full Romans 3:25

Anyone who thinks Christians are under the Law either does not understand the Bible rightly or is rejecting almost all of the New Testament
 
J

joseph123

Junior Member
#6
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
8
#6
We are not under the Torah law, but it is still good to try to abide by the non-sacrificial Torah laws. Every one of the non-sacrificial laws are a blessing to keep. (Jesus took the place of the sacrificial laws.)

Also, we are expected to keep the 10 Commandments at a bare minimum. The proof is essentially in this verse:

“But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, fornicators, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#7
Jun 30, 2015
25,363
13,727
113
#7
joseph123 said:
We are not under the Torah law, but it is still good to try to abide by the non-sacrificial Torah laws. Every one of the non-sacrificial laws are a blessing to keep. (Jesus took the place of the sacrificial laws.)

Also, we are expected to keep the 10 Commandments at a bare minimum. The proof is essentially in this verse:

“But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, fornicators, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8
Click to expand...
Wrong, just wrong.

James and Galatians make it clear that keeping part of the law is the same as keeping none of it.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#8
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
#8
Adam4Eve said:
"If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant"
Romans 4:14

"Christians are not under the law"
Romans 6:14

"The law brings wrath upon those who follow it"
Romans 4:15

"To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid” "
Galatians 3:1

"The law has nothing to do with faith"
Galatians 3:11-12


Lead a life that God permits, but do not comply with old testament law.

The only people who will have you comply with some parts of old testament law are those who wish to take advantage of you for their own gain (tithing serves as an example).
But as we know...

"The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly"
Galatians 3:10


http://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10/37-scriptures-that-prove-christians-are-not-under-the-law/
Click to expand...
By the 'law' are you referring to the 10 Commandments are just the hundreds of ordinances that were proclaimed in the OT. I agree that these ordinances and rules and regulations do no pertain to us but I certainly do not believe the 10 Commandments are obsolete. If they were then there would no longer be any knowledge of sin.
 
WalkingTree

WalkingTree

Active member
#9
Jan 13, 2019
168
100
43
#9
All scripture has value. To neglect even the smallest is to negate the One who spoke them.
 
J

joseph123

Junior Member
#11
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
8
#11
Dino246 said:
Wrong, just wrong.

James and Galatians make it clear that keeping part of the law is the same as keeping none of it.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's really true. The only way that's true is if you're talking about salvation. Keeping the whole law cannot save you because we can't keep the whole law. Only the blood of Jesus can save you. However, if you are saved, then the law is definitely a blessing to keep.

Think about it, Dino, if you're open to reason at all. The law is righteousness. Therefore, keeping the law is a good thing. How do you know the law is righteousness? You can prove it with a simple reasoning process:

1. How do we know Jesus was perfectly righteous? Only because he kept the whole law.

2. Therefore, keeping the law must make you righteous.

It's simple, keeping the law makes you righteous. Of course, you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Faith is credited as righteousness but keeping the law is credited as righteousness as well.

The 10 Commandments are a special part of the law in that they are extremely important in order for you to go to heaven.
 
J

joseph123

Junior Member
#12
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
8
#12
"I have come not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” - Jesus, Luke 5:32
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#13
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#13
Adam4Eve said:
The only people who will have you comply with some parts of old testament law are those who wish to take advantage of you for their own gain (tithing serves as an example).
But as we know...
Click to expand...
Its true that you will not be cursed by God if you don't tithe, but that does not mean giving money is wrong. When you give money to the church, what is your reasoning why you do so?
 
A

Adam4Eve

Active member
#14
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#14
joseph123 said:
I don't think that's really true. The only way that's true is if you're talking about salvation. Keeping the whole law cannot save you because we can't keep the whole law. Only the blood of Jesus can save you. However, if you are saved, then the law is definitely a blessing to keep.

Think about it, Dino, if you're open to reason at all. The law is righteousness. Therefore, keeping the law is a good thing. How do you know the law is righteousness? You can prove it with a simple reasoning process:

1. How do we know Jesus was perfectly righteous? Only because he kept the whole law.

2. Therefore, keeping the law must make you righteous.

It's simple, keeping the law makes you righteous. Of course, you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Faith is credited as righteousness but keeping the law is credited as righteousness as well.

The 10 Commandments are a special part of the law in that they are extremely important in order for you to go to heaven.
Click to expand...
You are incorrect about the law making anybody righteous, or that it is a blessing to keep - do you wish to remain cursed?

"The purpose of the law was to increase sin"
Romans 5:20

"The law makes you sinful beyond measure"
Romans 7:13

"The law is a ministry of condemnation"
2 Corinthians 3:9

"Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil"
2 Corinthians 3:14-15

"The law justifies nobody"
Galatians 2:16

"The law frustrates grace"
Galatians 2:21

"The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from"
Galatians 3:13

"Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility"
Ephesians 2:15

"Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop” "
Philippians 3:4-8

"God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises"
Hebrews 8:7-8

"The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy"
Romans 7:7-12
 
A

Adam4Eve

Active member
#15
Nov 26, 2018
179
42
28
#15
Guojing said:
Its true that you will not be cursed by God if you don't tithe, but that does not mean giving money is wrong. When you give money to the church, what is your reasoning why you do so?
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God does not just want us to have faith in Jesus, but wants our money too?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#17
Jun 30, 2015
25,363
13,727
113
#17
joseph123 said:
I don't think that's really true. The only way that's true is if you're talking about salvation. Keeping the law cannot save you because we can't keep the whole law. Only the blood of Jesus can save you. However, if you are saved, then the law is definitely a blessing to keep.

Think about it, Dino, if you're open to reason at all. The law is righteousness. Therefore, keeping the law is a good thing. How do you know the law is righteousness? You can prove it with a simple reasoning process:

1. How do we know Jesus was perfectly righteous? Only because he kept the whole law.

2. Therefore, keeping the law must make you righteous.

It's simple, keeping the law makes you righteous. Of course, you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Faith is credited as righteousness but keeping the law is credited as righteousness as well.

The 10 Commandments are a special part of the law in that they are extremely important in order for you to go to heaven.
Click to expand...
I don't know whose teaching you've gotten, but you have embraced the kind of cobbled-together, much-confused blend of Judaism and Christianity for which Paul reserved his most vigorous invective.

Galatians 3:1-5 (NIV) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

There's a major flaw in your thinking: Jesus didn't "become" righteous by keeping the law. He is God; He was righteous before birth and was never anything other than righteous. That's not the worst though.

The core of your error is this: "Therefore, keeping the law must make you righteous." You left out a word: "whole". By keeping the WHOLE law, you can be righteous. There's only one problem: you've already broken it. And you will break it tomorrow, and the next day, and so on. Righteousness isn't a relative thing; you are either righteous by keeping the whole law perfectly every day of your life (which is impossible, and you've already failed) or you can be righteous in Christ. There are no half-measures.

By the way, Scripture states, "everything that does not come from faith is sin. " (Romans 14:23 NIV). Sin isn't merely keeping the law; Jesus unpacked that in the "sermon on the mount".

Either you are trusting in the blood of Christ to cover ALL your sin, or you are trusting in yourself. Good luck with that.

Repent of your fleshly works. Trust in Jesus completely. Give up trying to make yourself "more" righteous... because you can't.
 
J

joseph123

Junior Member
#18
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
8
#18
Adam4Eve said:
You are incorrect about the law making anybody righteous, or that it is a blessing to keep - do you wish to remain cursed?

"The purpose of the law was to increase sin"
Romans 5:20

"The law makes you sinful beyond measure"
Romans 7:13

"The law is a ministry of condemnation"
2 Corinthians 3:9

"Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil"
2 Corinthians 3:14-15

"The law justifies nobody"
Galatians 2:16

"The law frustrates grace"
Galatians 2:21

"The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from"
Galatians 3:13

"Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility"
Ephesians 2:15

"Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop” "
Philippians 3:4-8

"God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises"
Hebrews 8:7-8

"The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy"
Romans 7:7-12
Click to expand...
I am not cursed and I will not be cursed for keeping the law, because keeping the law does not curse you. It's only when you try justify yourself by keeping the whole law instead of faith in Christ that you are under the curse of the law.

I won't go through each of those verses and rebut you on each one, because that would take too much time. This is what's known as cherry-picking verses. You can justify anything with it. I'll just rebut the first verse you posted.

"The purpose of the law was to increase sin"
Romans 5:20

The NLT translates the verse as follows:

"God’s law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful grace became more abundant."
Romans 5:20

So clearly the law did not make people more evil, it just showed how sinful they already were. Keeping the law will not make you sin more, that's just false.
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#19
May 17, 2015
2,937
1,607
113
48
#19
I think a point that often gets missed in the law vs. grace debate is what Paul wrote in Romans 2 concerning the Gentiles. He said that when Gentiles, who do not have the Law (of Moses) by nature do the things which are in the Law, they are a law to themselves. What this means is that the Gentiles are doing the things which God requires of all of humanity. God still held people accountable for their sin long before the Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites.

So we as Christians, because we are Christ's, do what God requires of us, which is based on His nature, holiness, goodness, justice, etc. We obey God, who is the Lawgiver, not the Law itself per se.
 
J

joseph123

Junior Member
#20
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
8
#20
Dino246 said:
I don't know whose teaching you've gotten, but you have embraced the kind of cobbled-together, much-confused blend of Judaism and Christianity for which Paul reserved his most vigorous invective.

Galatians 3:1-5 (NIV) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

There's a major flaw in your thinking: Jesus didn't "become" righteous by keeping the law. He is God; He was righteous before birth and was never anything other than righteous. That's not the worst though.

The core of your error is this: "Therefore, keeping the law must make you righteous." You left out a word: "whole". By keeping the WHOLE law, you can be righteous. There's only one problem: you've already broken it. And you will break it tomorrow, and the next day, and so on. Righteousness isn't a relative thing; you are either righteous by keeping the whole law perfectly every day of your life (which is impossible, and you've already failed) or you can be righteous in Christ. There are no half-measures.

By the way, Scripture states, "everything that does not come from faith is sin. " (Romans 14:23 NIV). Sin isn't merely keeping the law; Jesus unpacked that in the "sermon on the mount".

Either you are trusting in the blood of Christ to cover ALL your sin, or you are trusting in yourself. Good luck with that.

Repent of your fleshly works. Trust in Jesus completely. Give up trying to make yourself "more" righteous... because you can't.
Click to expand...
Too much text to respond to. I'll just say this. Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Why would he call sinners to repent if all you had to do was believe in his sacrifice? Does Jesus tell the truth or not? Clearly your (apparent) belief that repenting is pointless is absurdly false.
 
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