Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?
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"If I'm not mistaken Jesus has ascended and sat down on His throne, right?"
One must be very careful, in the discerning from "in the midst" of the Throne, to Psalms 110:1. Which states, "at MY right side!" Because, if memory is still serving me well, Isn't there some angel "disguised" as a "being of light", standing in the temple proclaiming himself AS God? Which is certainly NOT the case! (as shown below)
Revelation 5
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, STOOD a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
So, no! Jesus is not sitting upon the throne. Unless, of course, you have been "blinded by the light" (cut loose like a goose, another roamer in the night.....Sorry, I digress...my "slip" is showing...Freudian, that is), and therefore bind everything that is IN the "midst" of the throne, and of the 4 beasts, and of the elders, as all sitting UPON the throne. Therefore ALL are Christ?
Disagree? Only whole-heartedly! If you are saying, or alluding to what it sounds to me like you are alluding to!
As in most cases, when rebuking a sin? There always seems to be, to a greater, or lessor degree, those hooks, which oft times, becomes, or causes to become, a "personal" issue, to any particular believer. Depending, of course, on how deeply, said hooks have become, or are embedded.
Be ALWAYS suspicious! Whilst being EVER Vigilant! In one's "earnestly coveting" "greater Spiritual gifts!"
It's not easy going around kicking the dragon, and taking names! Never been very popular either!
If one thinks a gynecologist, has a hard time rebuilding a motorcycle engine via the exhaust pipe?
Imagine how hard it is for God in "borning from above", the "spiritual" man, living in these "sacks of sin?"
What's so surprising Jim? Need clarity regarding my testimony...?
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"If I'm not mistaken Jesus has ascended and sat down on His throne, right?"
One must be very careful, in the discerning from "in the midst" of the Throne, to Psalms 110:1. Which states, "at MY right side!" Because, if memory is still serving me well, Isn't there some angel "disguised" as a "being of light", standing in the temple proclaiming himself AS God? Which is certainly NOT the case! (as shown below)
Revelation 5
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, STOOD a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
So, no! Jesus is not sitting upon the throne. Unless, of course, you have been "blinded by the light" (cut loose like a goose, another roamer in the night.....Sorry, I digress...my "slip" is showing...Freudian, that is), and therefore bind everything that is IN the "midst" of the throne, and of the 4 beasts, and of the elders, as all sitting UPON the throne. Therefore ALL are Christ?
Disagree? Only whole-heartedly! If you are saying, or alluding to what it sounds to me like you are alluding to!
As in most cases, when rebuking a sin? There always seems to be, to a greater, or lessor degree, those hooks, which oft times, becomes, or causes to become, a "personal" issue, to any particular believer. Depending, of course, on how deeply, said hooks have become, or are embedded.
Be ALWAYS suspicious! Whilst being EVER Vigilant! In one's "earnestly coveting" "greater Spiritual gifts!"
It's not easy going around kicking the dragon, and taking names! Never been very popular either!
If one thinks a gynecologist, has a hard time rebuilding a motorcycle engine via the exhaust pipe?
Imagine how hard it is for God in "borning from above", the "spiritual" man, living in these "sacks of sin?"
One must be very careful, in the discerning from "in the midst" of the Throne, to Psalms 110:1. Which states, "at MY right side!" Because, if memory is still serving me well, Isn't there some angel "disguised" as a "being of light", standing in the temple proclaiming himself AS God? Which is certainly NOT the case! (as shown below)
Revelation 5
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, STOOD a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
So, no! Jesus is not sitting upon the throne. Unless, of course, you have been "blinded by the light" (cut loose like a goose, another roamer in the night.....Sorry, I digress...my "slip" is showing...Freudian, that is), and therefore bind everything that is IN the "midst" of the throne, and of the 4 beasts, and of the elders, as all sitting UPON the throne. Therefore ALL are Christ?
Disagree? Only whole-heartedly! If you are saying, or alluding to what it sounds to me like you are alluding to!
As in most cases, when rebuking a sin? There always seems to be, to a greater, or lessor degree, those hooks, which oft times, becomes, or causes to become, a "personal" issue, to any particular believer. Depending, of course, on how deeply, said hooks have become, or are embedded.
Be ALWAYS suspicious! Whilst being EVER Vigilant! In one's "earnestly coveting" "greater Spiritual gifts!"
It's not easy going around kicking the dragon, and taking names! Never been very popular either!
If one thinks a gynecologist, has a hard time rebuilding a motorcycle engine via the exhaust pipe?
Imagine how hard it is for God in "borning from above", the "spiritual" man, living in these "sacks of sin?"
I am saying that the bible says Jesus our King, is seated at God's right hand right NOW, with ALL power and authority. Here are a few references, and I know the first one is prophesying but it points to the others.
Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David. The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”
Luke 22:69
But from now on the Son of Man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”
Hebrews 12:2
Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Colossians 3:1
If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
1 Peter 3:22
Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Mark 16:19
So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Ephesians 1:20
That he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Acts 2:33
Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
Acts 5:31
God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 1:13
And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
Acts 7:55-56
But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
So please correct me where I'm wrong saying that He is seated NOW with ALL power? I may have misunderstood what you were saying in the first part because I honestly had no clue what you were saying. I didn't follow at all, so if I am completely wrong about what you were even saying then this is null and sorry about that.
Alrighty then? I'll try again.
I "took issue" with your statement: "If I'm not mistaken Jesus has ascended and sat down on His throne, right?"
Like Jesus is the only one on the throne, and not on the right side OF "HE, who sits ON "HIS" (own) throne!" To whom all glory and praise be forever and ever! Amen!
So?, I couldn't actually say that Jesus Himself has "his own" throne! But, that he is "seated" at the right hand side OF the throne. Though, I would concur that the Father would consider it not robbery, should Messiah wish to consider where he is sitting to be a throne. It really doesn't state anywheres in the Bible, concerning this, that I'm aware of. But, I've been wrong before!
It sounded like, you were denying whom Jesus was sitting to the right side of. Which is quite a "big" biggie! "but, I believe the end of the age already came when God judged the covenant breakers in 70 AD when He took the temple out of the world forever, just like He said He would."
I myself, wouldn't "label" it, the "end" of an age, as methinks it leads to confusion. I rather think of this "event" you are referring to, as an "ushering out" of the "Old Covenant" "dispensation", and the "ringing in" of the "New Covenant", dispensation, oft times referred to as "Church age", or "dispensation of Grace", I have heard it called also. As the timing of this "event" lines up pretty closely to when the Gospel of Jesus Christ was "passed over" the Jews, who had rejected it, and given unto us gentiles. As God's "incentive" of provoking Israel to jealousy.
The only "other" age, although, it is not described as such, is the "2nd Advent", or the return of Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth to earth.
As far as Jesus being seated, or standing on the right hand side, of God? It doesn't really matter as to how much power and authority Messiah has! Cuz, He ain't comin' back til the Father gives the green light to come!
I'm sure glad we have this cleared up.
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Alrighty then? I'll try again.
I "took issue" with your statement: "If I'm not mistaken Jesus has ascended and sat down on His throne, right?"
Like Jesus is the only one on the throne, and not on the right side OF "HE, who sits ON "HIS" (own) throne!" To whom all glory and praise be forever and ever! Amen!
So?, I couldn't actually say that Jesus Himself has "his own" throne! But, that he is "seated" at the right hand side OF the throne. Though, I would concur that the Father would consider it not robbery, should Messiah wish to consider where he is sitting to be a throne. It really doesn't state anywheres in the Bible, concerning this, that I'm aware of. But, I've been wrong before!
It sounded like, you were denying whom Jesus was sitting to the right side of. Which is quite a "big" biggie! "but, I believe the end of the age already came when God judged the covenant breakers in 70 AD when He took the temple out of the world forever, just like He said He would."
I myself, wouldn't "label" it, the "end" of an age, as methinks it leads to confusion. I rather think of this "event" you are referring to, as an "ushering out" of the "Old Covenant" "dispensation", and the "ringing in" of the "New Covenant", dispensation, oft times referred to as "Church age", or "dispensation of Grace", I have heard it called also. As the timing of this "event" lines up pretty closely to when the Gospel of Jesus Christ was "passed over" the Jews, who had rejected it, and given unto us gentiles. As God's "incentive" of provoking Israel to jealousy.
The only "other" age, although, it is not described as such, is the "2nd Advent", or the return of Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth to earth.
As far as Jesus being seated, or standing on the right hand side, of God? It doesn't really matter as to how much power and authority Messiah has! Cuz, He ain't comin' back til the Father gives the green light to come!
I'm sure glad we have this cleared up.
I "took issue" with your statement: "If I'm not mistaken Jesus has ascended and sat down on His throne, right?"
Like Jesus is the only one on the throne, and not on the right side OF "HE, who sits ON "HIS" (own) throne!" To whom all glory and praise be forever and ever! Amen!
So?, I couldn't actually say that Jesus Himself has "his own" throne! But, that he is "seated" at the right hand side OF the throne. Though, I would concur that the Father would consider it not robbery, should Messiah wish to consider where he is sitting to be a throne. It really doesn't state anywheres in the Bible, concerning this, that I'm aware of. But, I've been wrong before!
It sounded like, you were denying whom Jesus was sitting to the right side of. Which is quite a "big" biggie! "but, I believe the end of the age already came when God judged the covenant breakers in 70 AD when He took the temple out of the world forever, just like He said He would."
I myself, wouldn't "label" it, the "end" of an age, as methinks it leads to confusion. I rather think of this "event" you are referring to, as an "ushering out" of the "Old Covenant" "dispensation", and the "ringing in" of the "New Covenant", dispensation, oft times referred to as "Church age", or "dispensation of Grace", I have heard it called also. As the timing of this "event" lines up pretty closely to when the Gospel of Jesus Christ was "passed over" the Jews, who had rejected it, and given unto us gentiles. As God's "incentive" of provoking Israel to jealousy.
The only "other" age, although, it is not described as such, is the "2nd Advent", or the return of Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth to earth.
As far as Jesus being seated, or standing on the right hand side, of God? It doesn't really matter as to how much power and authority Messiah has! Cuz, He ain't comin' back til the Father gives the green light to come!
I'm sure glad we have this cleared up.
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In this verse you're using you are ripping it out of context to make your "wrong" point. There is more to this from 8 to 10.
8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
So John is making a bigger contrast here between the ones saved and those not. Also no verse is saying we will NEVER sin, just we refuse to practice it, and will not "go on" sinning. In 8 he clearly says "The one who practices sin is of the devil", so you're of the devil right?
You clearly PROCLAIM your sin proudly to all, "we will always sin, we sin, Christians resist God", so if 9 is meant in the sense you're putting forth then NO ONE is saved and you're strait up "of the devil" like the rest of us huh? That sucks. It also goes on to say in 10 that this is how you tell us apart. So I say "I've been made new, the old man is dead, now I am made whole in the Spirit". and one that says "we will always sin, we will always sin, we will always sin". According to these verses, what category would you put each in? You are clearly of the devil right?
See the bible is so much bigger then the 3 or 4 verses you use to hammer the point "Christians still sin and resist God", endlessly while accusing people like me that can tell you so clearly that even though you are "technically" correct, this in no way has ANYTHING at all to do with the fact that being reborn of the Spirit WILL change you, and that change will be evidenced by how you live, our "works". If you can't find common ground with what I'm saying here I can only conclude you want nothing more than to bicker. Period.
8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
So John is making a bigger contrast here between the ones saved and those not. Also no verse is saying we will NEVER sin, just we refuse to practice it, and will not "go on" sinning. In 8 he clearly says "The one who practices sin is of the devil", so you're of the devil right?
You clearly PROCLAIM your sin proudly to all, "we will always sin, we sin, Christians resist God", so if 9 is meant in the sense you're putting forth then NO ONE is saved and you're strait up "of the devil" like the rest of us huh? That sucks. It also goes on to say in 10 that this is how you tell us apart. So I say "I've been made new, the old man is dead, now I am made whole in the Spirit". and one that says "we will always sin, we will always sin, we will always sin". According to these verses, what category would you put each in? You are clearly of the devil right?
See the bible is so much bigger then the 3 or 4 verses you use to hammer the point "Christians still sin and resist God", endlessly while accusing people like me that can tell you so clearly that even though you are "technically" correct, this in no way has ANYTHING at all to do with the fact that being reborn of the Spirit WILL change you, and that change will be evidenced by how you live, our "works". If you can't find common ground with what I'm saying here I can only conclude you want nothing more than to bicker. Period.
Jim, if the Flesh (Old Man) were truly DEAD (as you claim) it would be INACTIVE, You would NOT SIN AT ALL. Dead things don't do ANYTHING.
Do you even understand what a contradiction in terms is?
Look it up.
You are confusing how God judges believers (as sinless - because of imputation) and yet, because we still have an active flesh, we SIN.
You are trying to have your cake and eat it to.
Are you can keep labeling my posts as "boring" or with with the big red "X" because you tripped up and don't have the humility to admit it.
Budman, the old man is dead in that it's power over us is broken. We still sin, but we never are in a place where we have to sin. When we sin, we are choosing to obey the old man, who has no Dominion over us, and resisting the Spirit.
We are people who are spiritually wealthy, but CHOOSE to sometimes live like paupers. BECAUSE we have not reckoned the old man dead, that is we have not reckoned him powerless.
We are people who are spiritually wealthy, but CHOOSE to sometimes live like paupers. BECAUSE we have not reckoned the old man dead, that is we have not reckoned him powerless.
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Miiee, I have a couple questions for you
A. Did you recognize and acknowledge to God that you are a sinner in need of mercy and forgiveness
B. Do you believe and confess that Jesus died for your sins, as the only way that you could have a relationship with God?
C. Do you believe that Jesus Rose from the dead?
A. Did you recognize and acknowledge to God that you are a sinner in need of mercy and forgiveness
B. Do you believe and confess that Jesus died for your sins, as the only way that you could have a relationship with God?
C. Do you believe that Jesus Rose from the dead?
Then the way you know you are saved is by the authority of God's Word and by the testimony of God's Spirit. The Word of God says if you trust in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved and whoever believes on Him will not be ashamed
The scriptures were written that we may believe, and believing may have life. Stay in the scriptures, for by them you may know you have eternal life.
The scriptures were written that we may believe, and believing may have life. Stay in the scriptures, for by them you may know you have eternal life.