Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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did you know that in Jude it says "to Him who is ABLE TO KEEP YOU from stumbling"?
And what about this:
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
^thats in Peter's epistle. Why does it say kept by the power of God?
Isnt it up to us to maintain our salvation?
As you know where I stand, we in PRACTICAL APPLICATION agree on repentance.
Where we would differ is: I believe repentance and faith are GIFTS from God. I believe God starts and finishes our salvation. And what makes me sad is that I feel like you are leaving God out of the picture completely AFTER salvation.
I feel like your message is:
God saves you, but then its sink or swim buddy.
Here is my suggestion to you: Take all the verses about obedience, about putting your hand to the plow and not looking back, entering through the narrow gate, all that. And COMBINE THEM with the God who is working in you verses and who is able to keep you, nothing can separate you, sheep know His voice and nothing shall take them from the Father's hand etc.
Work out your own salvation AND then it says: For it is GOD who works in you to do and will........
And what about this:
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
^thats in Peter's epistle. Why does it say kept by the power of God?
Isnt it up to us to maintain our salvation?
As you know where I stand, we in PRACTICAL APPLICATION agree on repentance.
Where we would differ is: I believe repentance and faith are GIFTS from God. I believe God starts and finishes our salvation. And what makes me sad is that I feel like you are leaving God out of the picture completely AFTER salvation.
I feel like your message is:
God saves you, but then its sink or swim buddy.
Here is my suggestion to you: Take all the verses about obedience, about putting your hand to the plow and not looking back, entering through the narrow gate, all that. And COMBINE THEM with the God who is working in you verses and who is able to keep you, nothing can separate you, sheep know His voice and nothing shall take them from the Father's hand etc.
Work out your own salvation AND then it says: For it is GOD who works in you to do and will........
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Going to attempt an explanation. Lol
Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered. Not going to touch what they possibly were...but likening our walk to this as sowing and reaping.
When we do wrong...and we all have in varying degrees....the results are never the perfect will of God. Permissive then seems to come though, and we suffer the results of our foolishness.
So the word obedience means to hearken submissively. I believe this is His Voice. Our Father doesn't cast us off, but we are chastened at times by our stubbornness. But, am of the mind that He would rather we listen attentively to Him the first time, to not suffer those consequences.
But, even in this....He works all things out for our good...to those who love Him and are called.
Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered. Not going to touch what they possibly were...but likening our walk to this as sowing and reaping.
When we do wrong...and we all have in varying degrees....the results are never the perfect will of God. Permissive then seems to come though, and we suffer the results of our foolishness.
So the word obedience means to hearken submissively. I believe this is His Voice. Our Father doesn't cast us off, but we are chastened at times by our stubbornness. But, am of the mind that He would rather we listen attentively to Him the first time, to not suffer those consequences.
But, even in this....He works all things out for our good...to those who love Him and are called.
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Gosh. You're starting to sound a little calvinistic...
BUT...
How could you possibly think the above after that long post I sent you?
How could you possibley think the above without ASKING me what I think about it?
I don't assume things about people --- I ask and try to understand them.
WE ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD.
Right.
Why did Jesus go away so He could send the Holy Spirit?
John 16:7
Isn't the Holy Spirit God?
Isn't He our comforter?
Our paraclete?
Does He not convict us of sin?
Help us to walk with God Father?
Jesus said WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:5b
I tend to worry more about persons that say they are saved but are afraid to say that they MUST obey God since this is what the entire bible says, starting with Genesis.
God starts and finishes our salvation IF WE ALLOW HIM to.
We have to cooperate with Him and follow His lead and obey His will for us; whatever it may be and as often as we can.
As far as nothing being able to separate us, if you notice it says nothing can separate us...
but we can WALK AWAY from God if we so desire.
Our free will was not taken away at salvation.
It was our desire to be saved
and it can be our desire to abandon God completely.
The sheep know His voice....
I'm just listening to that voice.
BUT...
How could you possibly think the above after that long post I sent you?
How could you possibley think the above without ASKING me what I think about it?
I don't assume things about people --- I ask and try to understand them.
WE ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD.
Right.
Why did Jesus go away so He could send the Holy Spirit?
John 16:7
Isn't the Holy Spirit God?
Isn't He our comforter?
Our paraclete?
Does He not convict us of sin?
Help us to walk with God Father?
Jesus said WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
John 15:5b
I tend to worry more about persons that say they are saved but are afraid to say that they MUST obey God since this is what the entire bible says, starting with Genesis.
God starts and finishes our salvation IF WE ALLOW HIM to.
We have to cooperate with Him and follow His lead and obey His will for us; whatever it may be and as often as we can.
As far as nothing being able to separate us, if you notice it says nothing can separate us...
but we can WALK AWAY from God if we so desire.
Our free will was not taken away at salvation.
It was our desire to be saved
and it can be our desire to abandon God completely.
The sheep know His voice....
I'm just listening to that voice.
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*insert free will*
Nothing can separate us from God.. except free will.
God finishes and starts our salvation, unless of course, free will.
Thats one thing even an Almighty Allpowerful God just wont step on! Human free will.
Well you know what, hats off to you for being consistent in your position. If you can will your way in, you should be able to will your way out.
Nothing can separate us from God.. except free will.
God finishes and starts our salvation, unless of course, free will.
Thats one thing even an Almighty Allpowerful God just wont step on! Human free will.
Well you know what, hats off to you for being consistent in your position. If you can will your way in, you should be able to will your way out.
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Much more though bro.
A genuine faith that is struggling or has wandered will cry out to God for help.
If they don't initially then just like God did in the garden he will call
"Adam, Adam where are you?
A true believer will never be happy if they are not walking with God.
One who is not does not give two hoots.
A genuine faith that is struggling or has wandered will cry out to God for help.
If they don't initially then just like God did in the garden he will call
"Adam, Adam where are you?
A true believer will never be happy if they are not walking with God.
One who is not does not give two hoots.
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