Praying in Tongues

[RickyZ]

You know, satan is laughing at us right now. His whole intent on producing the over the top dog and pony show is intended to get us debating instead of doing.

 

[Noose]

Long story short, a girl was stopped from slicing her wrists and led to a park bench where there just happened to be a Bible left behind. And from there to a place where ministers talked to her and helped her resolve the issue. All because of knowledge and direction received in tongues prayer. How is that not to the glory of God?

Maybe you scared her with the meaningless words.
My point is, there's no connection between your tongue and what transpired, maybe if you had just spoken a meaningful language to her the results would have been the same.
How many times have we seen tongue speakers speak in tongues and pick deadly snakes only to be bitten to death?
How many times have we seen tongue speakers pray for the dead for weeks only to finally accept and bury the body?
How many times have we seen tongue speakers pray for the healing of the sick only to be disappointed?
Are you claiming to be the best of the best tongue speakers that ever walked this planet?

Do you want me to post videos here?

 

[kaylagrl]

No, according to them that was a limited-time offer. Exclusions apply.

No it wasn't a limited time offer. People have been raised from the dead around the world. People can believe it or don't. Doesn't change the fact that it is happening. My missionary friends were in Uganda when Idi Amin was in power. You want to hear about miracles? They saw God move in a mighty way.Send chills up your spine.They spent years on the mission field. Don't believe in miracles,go talk to a missionary. Call them liars.

 

[RickyZ]

I've seen them. Again, satan's intent is to make it look ridiculous so we don't join in.

Works pretty well, doesn't it?

 

[kaylagrl]

Maybe you scared her with the meaningless words.
My point is, there's no connection between your tongue and what transpired, maybe if you had just spoken a meaningful language to her the results would have been the same.
How many times have we seen tongue speakers speak in tongues and pick deadly snakes only to be bitten to death?
How many times have we seen tongue speakers pray for the dead for weeks only to finally accept and bury the body?
How many times have we seen tongue speakers pray for the healing of the sick only to be disappointed?
Are you claiming to be the best of the best tongue speakers that ever walked this planet?

Do you want me to post videos here?

Wow!! What a dead faith you have!! I truly feel sorry for you. I don't know what church you attend or what Bible you read but you need to get connected to a church that believes in a Living God!! You need to get in touch with people who believe in a Living God!! Not this dead god you are believing in with no power,no life,no miracles. You need prayer for God to open your eyes. Sad,sad,sad.

 

[RickyZ]

Honestly, Noose, no one is more bothered by the dog and pony show than I am, because it leads to far too many people taking the position you have instead of seeing the truth behind it. Tongues talkers are their own worst enemies because of this.

 

[Noose]

Wow!! What a dead faith you have!! I truly feel sorry for you. I don't know what church you attend or what Bible you read but you need to get connected to a church that believes in a Living God!! You need to get in touch with people who believe in a Living God!! Not this dead god you are believing in with no power,no life,no miracles. You need prayer for God to open your eyes. Sad,sad,sad.

I do believe in a living God, i don't think i need a church. I read all bible versions. I'm good the way i am.
I don't need missionary friends to tell me what's up, the bible says no.

 

[kaylagrl]

I've seen them. Again, satan's intent is to make it look ridiculous so we don't join in.

Works pretty well, doesn't it?

Years ago when I first began in ministry we had a friend join us as our bass player. He was from a church that did not believe in tongues. Great guy,just didn't believe in tongues. We didn't fight over it,just let it be. One morning we were singing at one of those crazy Pentecostal services. In the middle of it someone gave a message in tongues,someone interpreted. When we left that afternoon to eat we were worried about how our friend was feeling about the tongues thinking he'd stop traveling with us. We began to try and explain and discuss what happened and he stopped us. He said "I was given the interpretation before it was spoken in English.I already knew what was going to be said". The blind man said "this much I know,once I was blind but now I see".

 

[kaylagrl]

I do believe in a living God, i don't think i need a church. I read all bible versions. I'm good the way i am.
I don't need missionary friends to tell me what's up, the bible says no.

The Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. So you have no issue going against the Bible there. The Bible doesn't say no,you interpret it to say no. And that's very sad. You don't believe in a Living God if you don't believe He can raise the dead and heal the sick.

 

[Noose]

Honestly, Noose, no one is more bothered by the dog and pony show than I am, because it leads to far too many people taking the position you have instead of seeing the truth behind it. Tongues talkers are their own worst enemies because of this.

Your testimony is not that convincing and i don't say this because i need to be convinced.
A Hindu will say they prayed to a cow and someone was convinced not to commit suicide- glory goes to the cow
An atheist says they have convinced a person not to take their own life- glory goes to nothingness
A muslim prayed to allah to heal a person and they were healed- glory goes to allah

The people who have been called by the living God who walk by faith and not by sight can not apply the above standards in death and in life/ in suffering or celebration/ in sickness or health- the glory of God should remain the same either way.

 

[kaylagrl]

Honestly, Noose, no one is more bothered by the dog and pony show than I am, because it leads to far too many people taking the position you have instead of seeing the truth behind it. Tongues talkers are their own worst enemies because of this.

And that is on the pastor who leads the church. The Bible tells us how things are to be done in order.

 

[kaylagrl]

Your testimony is not that convincing and i don't say this because i need to be convinced.
A Hindu will say they prayed to a cow and someone was convinced not to commit suicide- glory goes to the cow
An atheist says they have convinced a person not to take their own life- glory goes to nothingness
A muslim prayed to allah to heal a person and they were healed- glory goes to allah

The people who have been called by the living God who walk by faith and not by sight can not apply the above standards in death and in life/ in suffering or celebration/ in sickness or health- the glory of God should remain the same either way.

The glory doesn't go to God when a person is healed?!! ALL glory goes to God when a person is healed. smh People have the weirdest ideas in this forum. In 20yrs of travel in all denominations I've never seen some of the false ideas I've seen here. smh I'm hoping this means it's limited in it's reach.

 

[posthuman]

@posthuman –

The singer in the videos is using an idiogloss influenced by the language of various ethnic communities in Melbourne where she lived. An idiogloss is similar to glossolalia. Where glossolalia is random and typically can’t be repeated by the person speaking it, an idiogloss is not random; it’s purposefully ‘constructed’ (for lack of a better way of putting it). An idiogloss can be repeated and even written down; though it doesn’t appear anyone has ever transcribed her song. The fact she can perform the same song with the same ‘lyrics’ each time she sings it is a strong indicator of an idiogloss. So, it’s not glossolalia (“tongues”), but something akin to it.

As Brendan Perry (the other half of “Dead Can Dance”), states: “The lyrics are all influenced by various languages but have no syntactical meaning in any given language”.

She’s a perfect example of how a gifted singer can use the human voice to convey meaning and emotion while the lyrics themselves are completely devoid of meaning. The listener has no clue what she’s saying, but in this case, that’s exactly the point; the lyrics are irrelevant. It’s the singer’s use of her voice that carries the ‘meaning’ and emotion of the song.

thank you

 

[7seasrekeyed]

zv
Well, i a living today. Of couse missionaries brought the Gospel into the world, also to Germany and USA.
But the churches today are not full of missionaries, but of members which following a job and family life. They build the base of a church. This I meant with "normal" believer.

I would not have such much difficulties to accept tonguespeaking for today, if I could see this in a christian life without connection to a charismatic ore pentecostal teaching.
But what i find today is a mixing from acts and the letter to the corithians for to build such a teaching.
And as I said before, no one taught this after the apostolic time till the pentecostal movement starts in 1900.

well I used to go to a Missionary and Alliance church some years back (moved 3 x's since then so no longer go but I really liked the church) and they send out and support missionaries who also speak at church and involve the congregation. too many 'believers'
are what we call 'saved and satisfied'. the core of a church is usually those who appear at prayer meetings and or the weekly Bible study

well you are wrong about 'after the Apostolic time' as has been explained, but like anything else, you can refute and that is your choice

I'm neither Charismatic nor Pentecostal...I was brought up in a church that did not teach about the gifts at all, but if you have questions about what you read or study in scripture and it goes against what is being taught, you start asking questions

which I did...of God...and I prayed...alone..and I did receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues and began to praise God..in English and in tongues...it was not a miraculous type of event, but over time, I have experienced many things with regards to this gift.

it's a shame that some abuse it as they do; there is really no excuse for it

but as I have a non-gift background, I think I can say that hysteria and emotions aside (I'm not given to that), tongues has proven to be very beneficial in my prayers and has made a vast difference in how I worship

 

[Noose]

The Bible says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. So you have no issue going against the Bible there. The Bible doesn't say no,you interpret it to say no. And that's very sad. You don't believe in a Living God if you don't believe He can raise the dead and heal the sick.

The bible also says bad company corrupts good morals; if there are people in the assembly that believe speaking meaningless words and people raising the dead is a possibility today, then i'm good being alone.

I believe God can raise the dead and heal the sick only that the time when He granted individual the gift to do all these is long gone.
It is not possible to raise the dead not because God can not, but because it is harvest time:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

 

[Noose]

The glory doesn't go to God when a person is healed?!! ALL glory goes to God when a person is healed. smh People have the weirdest ideas in this forum. In 20yrs of travel in all denominations I've never seen some of the false ideas I've seen here. smh I'm hoping this means it's limited in it's reach.

I said, when a muslim prays, the glory goes to alah and when a Hindu prays, the glory goes to the cow, an atheist gives glory to themselves. Everyone has their own peculiar prayer/need but at the end of the day, only the will of God is done regardless. So in essence, there's no such thing as praying in tongues and seeing success as proof of anything.

 

[posthuman]

thank you

what you pointed out about how she, as an artist, is conveying certain meaning and emotion through her voice without the use of identified language is, i think, similar to how glossolalia functions in sincere charismatics ((making a distinction between those who purposefully make utterances as a 'counterfeit' gift of tongues - because i think we can all agree that such deception exists even if we may disagree about which is which)). they are experiencing emotion and deep feelings, and conveying it in some way through nonsense syllables.

in this sense, even as i tend to agree that glossolalia, so-called 'angelic tongues' and 'prayer language' is very much distinct from what the Bible describes as the gift of tongues, has a certain merit, in the same way that a person may create physical art or instrumental music in order to communicate or, as it were, to document what they feel in their inner selves but cannot express in words.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i'm not sure what we're talking about.

the woman singing in this post is the closest thing i can think of to a glossolalia that may actually be genuine. she's pentecostal, though the musical group itself is some kind of broad new-age spiritualist. the song is a prayer. she sings in an unknown language.

is this tongues? who can interpret?



Acts 2 is very clearly natural, identifiable, authentic & well-known languages, not glossolalia

we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues! ​

(Acts 2:11) ​

this doesn't seem to me to be the same thing as what modern charismatic churches call tongues. am i being asked about someone fluently speaking Mandarin who has absolutely no natural knowledge of it, or about uttering a kind of structured, ecstatic gibberish which, like an abstract painting, is open to any number of possible private interpretations, all equally valid in meaning?

the former, being genuinely miraculous, if what is said praises Him, is from God. i will not presume to limit Him.
the latter is so easy to fake and so undefined, so indistinguishable from pagan babble, that i find it very difficult to flatly accept. i know of zero documented instances of the former in the last thousand years, which is a strange bit of data in this era where nearly everyone in the western world has a recording device & translator in their pocket. i'd love to see evidence.
the latter is prolific but indefinite and i am suspicious of it for obvious reasons.

if someone can legitimately interpret this song then it would greatly help me to be able to legitimately answer your question, 7seas..

if this is tongues.
& tbh, i'd probably want to hear it being interpreted by more than one person without the two having any communication with each other, to test whether the claim of a gift of interpretation is equally genuine. there are many wolves in the church; many clever, clever wolves, and on this subject, we sheep are profoundly easy to fool. i want to distinguish between emotionalism and truth.

sorry post...I thought you were negating tongues and just passed over your video

the woman singing in this post is the closest thing i can think of to a glossolalia that may actually be genuine. she's pentecostal, though the musical group itself is some kind of broad new-age spiritualist. the song is a prayer. she sings in an unknown language.

is this tongues? who can interpret?

ummm....cantara is a Scottish Celtic rock band...perhaps ask them to interpret. on their fb page there is a post about them learning to sing words phonetically. so that would wrap it up I would think

but why would you think or imply it might be tongues? there are different uses of tongues and none of them apply to a music group. people do sing in tongues...I do myself but I also interpret...and often (when leading worship although I not currently doing so) words of praise to God would form...and I would just sing in English. that's a gift but I would never abuse it or use it

your unknown language appears to be known and performed phonetically.

btw, gifts are to be used for the edification of a body of believers...not for gain or a talent show...interpretation is a gift but to be used for edification once again. it's not a sideshow. frankly, I am wondering why you posted this? so easy to look up what is really going on in that vid and nothing to do with the gift of tongues

on that subject though, there are satanic tongues and I have heard at least one person faking it...myself and the other people I was with all opened our eyes when he started up because recognized immediatly it was not God

hard to explain all the connections to one who has not experienced but I almost always know, even in this forum, when someone is filled with the Holy Spirit...and that is not the same as sealed at conversion and does not mean salvation although you must belong to Christ to be filled...the NT does relay a number of people having been saved and receiving the infilling with evidence of speaking in tongues after believing in Christ

@ Stonesoffire –
“It reminds me of a song. Like a repeating chorus.”

Yes, what your referring to is a feature of glossolalia; namely, the repetition of syllables. The result of this is that much of the glossic string is extremely repetitive (which, by the way, can lend itself to be said to almost have the quality of a ‘song text/lyric’).

“It's source is right in the description Kavik for it is soulish. Nothing of Holy Spirit mentioned nor would it be. It's not from heaven.”

Light Language is one of many non-Christian forms of glossolalia. One of the characteristics of LL is that its speakers believe in the concept of the healing power of musical certain musical tones and as such, it’s common to hear a string of speech ‘interrupted’ or followed by an intonation of a particular note. LL is produced the same way Christian “tongues” are; it draws from the speaker’s native language (or any other language they may have had contact with).

@ CS1 –
nope, not at all. You add words to the context of tongues to fit your understanding modern tongues is not a Theological term it is secular human. FYI God is never confused.

I would have to say that it’s certain Christian groups who are trying to take something which is very tangible, easily explained, self-created, and very much worldly/physical and turn it into something spiritual based on the modern tongues experience which itself is based on a compete redefinition/understanding of the Biblical narratives (again, to fit the modern experience). It’s these groups that are twisting reality and turning modern “tongues” into something it simply is not and never was.

@posthuman –

The singer in the videos is using an idiogloss influenced by the language of various ethnic communities in Melbourne where she lived. An idiogloss is similar to glossolalia. Where glossolalia is random and typically can’t be repeated by the person speaking it, an idiogloss is not random; it’s purposefully ‘constructed’ (for lack of a better way of putting it). An idiogloss can be repeated and even written down; though it doesn’t appear anyone has ever transcribed her song. The fact she can perform the same song with the same ‘lyrics’ each time she sings it is a strong indicator of an idiogloss. So, it’s not glossolalia (“tongues”), but something akin to it.

As Brendan Perry (the other half of “Dead Can Dance”), states: “The lyrics are all influenced by various languages but have no syntactical meaning in any given language”.

She’s a perfect example of how a gifted singer can use the human voice to convey meaning and emotion while the lyrics themselves are completely devoid of meaning. The listener has no clue what she’s saying, but in this case, that’s exactly the point; the lyrics are irrelevant. It’s the singer’s use of her voice that carries the ‘meaning’ and emotion of the song.

that's not biblical tongues and it is non-relevant to the subject

I also read where they learn songs phonetically

and it's a pretty big group...not just 2 members

I found the music 'snake like' and did not like her voice or intonations

 

[Kavik]

thank you

Welcome - it would be cool to see if anyone has transcribed the lyrics to any of the songs - but, she seems to sing in more an 'operatic style' which makes it rather difficult to transcribe.

 

[posthuman]

ummm....cantara is a Scottish Celtic rock band...perhaps ask them to interpret. on their fb page there is a post about them learning to sing words phonetically. so that would wrap it up I would think

cantata is Latin for sing Iirc.. it's the name of the song, the group I posted is called dead can dance. the woman is very reclusive, but it's known she was raised pentecostal. she recorded a solo album in Hebrew singing the Lord's prayer, and has made a few public statements about Christ as though she believes He is, but the group overall, as I said, expresses a very new-age amalgamation of spiritual beliefs. she may or may not be a believer.

i posted it because she sings in what one might call an 'unknown tongue' and i think it's a very relevant and interesting example for the thread.