Praying in Tongues

Locutus · Jan 17, 2019

Does anybody post in tongues?

dcontroversal · Jan 17, 2019

your post 554

The tragic truth......the only church in the N.T. that had an issue with the gifts and like today BOASTED of the ability to speak tongues, was the spiritually immature Corinthian assembly that had some 15 errors.........and it took over three chapters to correct their error.........many of the same errors are found within churches today that make a big deal of speaking in tongues and I am not saying this based upon bias and or a lack of info as I have many family and friends that attend these types of churches. Paul was clear and so is the verbiage found in the Corinthian letter.....if ONE is going to covet a GIFT Paul said to covet the BEST gift and tongues was not it........

I fully expect those that push tongues to argue against the truth..........

Fail, cease and vanish away are clear, so is the word perfect as applied to a 1st Century Greek speaking believer.

Super natural knowledge is no longer needed due to the completed bible
Prophecy is no longer needed due to the completed bible and the last BOOK of Prophecy
And tongues has devolved into some mumbo jumbo that does nothing for the hearer......

When one can stand and speak fluent Mandarin with zero training in an open assembly with another to translate for the sake of a Chinese visitor that does not speak ENGLISH then the true meaning of tongues as applied in the 1st Century will be evident.

Why is it so hard for the truth to be accepted.

another ad hominum attack

you deliver words that are derogatory concerning a gift God gives and then get upset when people disagree with you

it's not your version of the truth that is truth. it's God's word that is truth

I called you on the way you mock tongues and since then, you have called me a liar

you dish it out but you cannot take it

again, you post ad hominum attacks...personal attacks...such as calling me a liar...no scripture...just your own desire to argue and make problems here for people who do not agree with you.

it's really childish

Until you can be honest, which I have noticed with you is a quality you seem to lack.......all I see you saying is blah, blah, blah......get some honesty....it goes a long way......Nothing I said was wrong or false.........here let me help you....

hon·es·ty
/ˈänəstē/
noun

1.
the quality of being honest.
"they spoke with convincing honesty about their fears"
synonyms:moral correctness, uprightness, honorableness, honor, integrity, morals, morality, ethics, principle, (high) principles, nobility, righteousness, rectitude, right-mindedness, upstandingness;

Kavik · Jan 17, 2019

See post 860

Tongues are strictly a spoken phenomenon in the Christian world. In some cultures and beliefs, glossolalia can have a written form (search for examples of Light Language).

stonesoffire · Jan 17, 2019

Kavik said:

To reiterate something I've posted in the past -

Note the following:

/mɛ’na xajlɛ’j xala’ja, mɛnxa’j ɛlɛji’ɛ lɛ lɛ’j xomue’mənti ei’ nana’j kɛ’rɛš ka’muean.
E ma’jɛ leli’ ɛl ku’eu, ijɛn če I’rara kani’ški kui’aj mu ma’j ka’nə pe’u irara’.
E xala’ xalaj’ə xale’lɪn jɪ’lɪleku ilæ ko’j mu maj pemɪnɪ’ški.
Ke’to ilɛ itiɛnana’j fɛni’ xuj maxa’j ɛxɛlæ’.
E xala’j xale’j xala’maj i’əlɛgi’ ɛrɛxu’ i ɛmama’j iə ti ɛnɛnɛ’j tɪ’ški ku’j emamata’mbɛtæ’./

/Ribababaší toromó kijɛtɛ’j. Makjandarabá šandorobó kjáta. Satará kandorobó kirɪbáka:. Ribandarabá šandí ko kararibíš. Sitíŋ garabáš šandarabó kondiká. Mánda kašikarandorobó šija:tí. Mararabá ŋarabɔ’:š. Šití koró gəgəšɪ’ndarabakjá. Mándi kísi turukí karabáš:. Diribí šíti karabá torobó kɪ’ndi. Ríbababá šɪ’tɛ ka: šandorobó kɪ’ta. Masíta katórobo šɪ’ti ka:. Šɪ’kandaraba kókɛj. Makjáraba šándorobó kjánta. Šɪtí kiribá šúndurubú kja. Mándaraba katarabá: dokó šɪtí. Murijaté kándarabá šandurú ku. Síti korábabababá ndoró:./

/kénte héči, héči kího hóro/
/máča kité la móčo/
/rána mačé ne kitá lau/
/rɛ’na še kí na máto/

These are three separate examples of transcribed "tongues" from three different speakers (transcribed using a simple IPA).
Word boundaries and sentences are completely arbitrary and are based on the stops and pauses of the speakers.

If there is is language and meaning with any of the above, I'd sure like to know where it is.

It reminds me of a song. Like a repeating chorous.

stonesoffire · Jan 17, 2019

I just scanned over some info on light language. Never heard the term before.

It's source is right in the description Kavik for it is soulish. Nothing of Holy Spirit mentioned nor would it be. It's not from heaven.

stonesoffire · Jan 17, 2019

stonesoffire said:

Not saying this as an interpretation in any way. Just looking at the same beginnings of words.

stonesoffire · Jan 17, 2019

Locutus said:

I'd say all here Locutus. lol

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

Kavik said:

No, I don’t believe it is. There are many examples of the same glossic string being played to several different people – no two interpretations were ever similar enough to each other to suggest a commonality with only one original utterance.

Yes, you’re correct; an interpretation is not a translation; however, even with interpretation of one language to another, despite minor differences, the meaning/interpretation is essentially one in the same. Enough to know each came from the same source. This doesn’t happen with ‘tongues’.

“The big brown dog is slow” can never be “the small white cat is quick” which is typically what you get with respect to interpretations for the same glossic string. It’s spiritual improv. It’s based on what one is feeling is being communicated at the moment.

Again, if those ten different people all offered a very similar interpretation, close enough to demonstrate that they clearly all came from one original source, I’d be inclined to agree with what you’re saying; but that’s just not the reality of the situation.

You’re twisting the definition of the concept of ‘interpretation’ to fit the idea of modern tongues and interpretation. You can’ t have multiple, completely unrelated, interpretations for the same utterance – if that were the case, there wouldn’t ever be need of the original utterance. Neither language nor communication in general works that way. As people are keen to quote to me “God is not the author of confusion”.

nope, not at all. You add words to the context of tongues to fit your understanding modern tongues is not a Theological term it is secular human. FYI God is never confused.

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

garee said:

you limit God and the Holy Spirit. I will cast some pearls here for you, do to the fact you said Korean. I have been to Korea many times and your idea has forgotten one possibility and it did happen I know it did. a Christian visited a church in Korea did not speak Korean only English. he stood up and spoke in tongues a language that was not Korean. A Korean man who this person never saw before gave the interpretation to the church in Korean. The word were of encouragement to the whole body there over 10,000 attendees. They have never met before.

dcontroversal · Jan 17, 2019

CS1 said:

MAY I interject a truth here......Just like Japan (since 45), Americans have been in Korea for over 60 years and many Koreans speak and or understand English......it is probable that the guy understood the English that was being spoken......Just as many Japanese understand English because of the American presence.......The same is true with Hong Kong and the English......

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

Kavik said:

No, I don’t believe it is. There are many examples of the same glossic string being played to several different people – no two interpretations were ever similar enough to each other to suggest a commonality with only one original utterance.

Yes, you’re correct; an interpretation is not a translation; however, even with interpretation of one language to another, despite minor differences, the meaning/interpretation is essentially one in the same. Enough to know each came from the same source. This doesn’t happen with ‘tongues’.

“The big brown dog is slow” can never be “the small white cat is quick” which is typically what you get with respect to interpretations for the same glossic string. It’s spiritual improv. It’s based on what one is feeling is being communicated at the moment.

Again, if those ten different people all offered a very similar interpretation, close enough to demonstrate that they clearly all came from one original source, I’d be inclined to agree with what you’re saying; but that’s just not the reality of the situation.

You’re twisting the definition of the concept of ‘interpretation’ to fit the idea of modern tongues and interpretation. You can’ t have multiple, completely unrelated, interpretations for the same utterance – if that were the case, there wouldn’t ever be need of the original utterance. Neither language nor communication in general works that way. As people are keen to quote to me “God is not the author of confusion”.

again and interpretation is not an application. so one speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is not giving new Revelation but an exhortation, edification and comfort as 1cor chapter 12 to 14 teach the gifts are for.

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

it was not English the guy was speaking, it was a language unknown to the speaker. the man who was Korean stood up and spoke his own known language. respectfully your truth is not one. it is an opinion of what you think to happen at a church meeting you were not at.

garee · Jan 17, 2019

double entry sorry.

dcontroversal · Jan 17, 2019

CS1 said:

I want to say that I am not being mouthy, have attitude etc.....but this is my perception based upon biblical facts.......

First things first....you did not say it was an unknown language to the speaker, you said he spoke only English and spoke in "tongues a language not Korean"

Second....What I said is factual...concerning many Koreans understanding English due to our presence.

Third....I did not state an OPINION as FACT, but rather said it is probable.....NOT that it was 100% for sure what happened

AND......this is the big one....

LASTLY.....TONGUES was KNOWN languages.....SO......what is the LOGICAL reason GOD would use a man to speak some unknown, foreign language when HE could have USED ENGLISH and or KOREAN to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish....

In Acts......what language was being spoken by Peterand company and what did the people hear?........IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE..........<----this guideline tells me that if anything the GUY heard in KOREAN.....

Can I ask an honest question.....WHY cannot you guys accept the biblical standard of what really took place in ACTS? WHY does it have to be embellished to this man speaking in some unknown foreign language and the Korean understanding it in some unknown foreign language instead of KOREAN like the people in ACTS which HEARD in their OWN tongue?

The men that spoke, spoke in their NATIVE tongue and the PEOPLE heard IN THEIR own LANGUAGE.

Going by this EXAMPLE......The man speaking ENGLISH would have spoken IN ENGLISH and the KOREAN would have heard in KOREAN

THE above is exactly WHY I believe most of it is fraudulent.....and that is NOT an unfair assessment.....nor is it a non-biblical assessment

garee · Jan 17, 2019

CS1 said:

Yobosale.

I was drafted in the sixties and spent 15 months there. Loved the Korean people.

The man that stood up and spoke in tongues a English language that was not Korean. The Korean man who this person never saw before gave the interpretation to the church in Korean because he could translate two language's...or was bi-lingo. God is no more bring any new prophecy after any manner to includes tongues.

The tongues interpretation in the scriptures provided they each hear each other as having a conversation .No private interpretation where one would make a noise and the other interpret it. We are warned of those who say we need a man to interpret the words of God prophecy . Either God reveals His interpretation in any tongue or we walk away . Why would a person trust the private interpretation of men and put himself in jeopardy of hearing God in a personal way. How could we seek the approval of God if we are trusting the witness of man?

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I want to say that I am not being mouthy, have attitude etc.....but this is my perception based upon biblical facts.......

First things first....you did not say it was an unknown language to the speaker, you said he spoke only English and spoke in "tongues a language not Korean"

Second....What I said is factual...concerning many Koreans understanding English due to our presence.

Third....I did not state an OPINION as FACT, but rather said it is probable.....NOT that it was 100% for sure what happened

AND......this is the big one....

LASTLY.....TONGUES was KNOWN languages.....SO......what is the LOGICAL reason GOD would use a man to speak some unknown, foreign language when HE could have USED ENGLISH and or KOREAN to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish....

In Acts......what language was being spoken by Peterand company and what did the people hear?........IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE..........<----this guideline tells me that if anything the GUY heard in KOREAN.....

Can I ask an honest question.....WHY cannot you guys accept the biblical standard of what really took place in ACTS? WHY does it have to be embellished to this man speaking in some unknown foreign language and the Korean understanding it in some unknown foreign language instead of KOREAN like the people in ACTS which HEARD in their OWN tongue?

The men that spoke, spoke in their NATIVE tongue and the PEOPLE heard IN THEIR own LANGUAGE.

Going by this EXAMPLE......The man speaking ENGLISH would have spoken IN ENGLISH and the KOREAN would have heard in KOREAN

THE above is exactly WHY I believe most of it is fraudulent.....and that is NOT an unfair assessment.....nor is it a non-biblical assessment

the American who visited the church whose native language was English stood up and spoke in a language that was not English nor Korean. A Korean man whose native language is Korean stood up and interpreted what the man said in whatever language he was speaking in Korean. What he said in Korean was a word to the church of comfort and exhortation. The People of about 10 to 15,000 were blessed by what the man said in interpretation.

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

garee said:

Yobosale.

I was drafted in the sixties and spent 15 months there. Loved the Korean people.

The man that stood up and spoke in tongues a English language that was not Korean. The Korean man who this person never saw before gave the interpretation to the church in Korean because he could translate two language's...or was bi-lingo. God is no more bring any new prophecy after any manner to includes tongues.

The tongues interpretation in the scriptures provided they each hear each other as having a conversation .No private interpretation where one would make a noise and the other interpret it. We are warned of those who say we need a man to interpret the words of God prophecy . Either God reveals His interpretation in any tongue or we walk away . Why would a person trust the private interpretation of men and put himself in jeopardy of hearing God in a personal way. How could we seek the approval of God if we are trusting the witness of man?

first off you were not there and that is not what happened.

Tim416 · Jan 17, 2019

For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an enquirer,[d] say ‘Amen’ to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. 1cor14:14-17

It seems you can pray in tongues without speaking in anyones native language

CS1 · Jan 17, 2019

Tim416 said:

For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an enquirer,[d] say ‘Amen’ to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. 1cor14:14-17

It seems you can pray in tongues without speaking in anyone's native language

that is the case but 1cor 14 says one speaks and another can interpret.

dcontroversal · Jan 17, 2019

CS1 said:

You are expecting me to believe this when it is 100% contrary to the way it happened in Acts?

And on top of this....Paul....who was taught by direct revelation from Jesus, the same Paul who was inspired by God and which writes almost HALF of the New Testament said that he would rather speak 5 words of understanding then 10,000 in an UNKNOWN language.

And yet we are expected to believe that what took place is biblical even though it

a. Is not similar to what took place in Acts
b. Flies in the face of what Paul said concerning "UNKNOWN" tongues

Were you there to witness it?

And sorry......I cannot accept something as biblical when it is not even similar to what actually took place in Acts 2........Peter and company spoke in their own tongue and the people heard in their own language.....

I am not mouthing, arguing or being flippant in my remarks.........I can only go with biblical examples CS......

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