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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Writing them on stone could not get them to obey, how is writing then on our heart going to do any different?
Does God want us to choose between law and grace?
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Tim416
Guest
So Christians would not be pointed out sin, be conscious of sin if they bore false witness, committed adultery, stole, coveted, or took the Lords name in vain? I do not know any Christians who actually believe that. But hey, you are entitled to your beliefs
Just going to throw this out there and watch your debate. How are we aware of any post salvation sins? Like the ones 1 John 1:9 says we are to confess?
Thanks in advance.
P.s. if (and it is) the word heart is primarily used of our thinking, how does that fit in?
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Tim416
Guest
When I made a commitment to Christ at a young age, I was in earnest about it. I set out to live a pure and holy life for God, in effect obeying His laws(though at my tender age I did not rationalise it that way) The first real difference I noticed was, I became conscious of my shortcomings/sin before God in a very real and profound way. I suddenly knew I could not continue to live as I had previously if I wanted to be a Christian, for Christians cannot expect to live a life of sin. The consciousness of sin was not due to having firstly read the bible, but because the law had been placed in my most inward parts and there was no hiding from it.
I didn’t love others as I should(I was only young) I used to get angry(as kids, and adults do. I told some fibs, and a lot more. And I always felt much guilt because of it. But it was when I reached puberty the problems magnified, because along came impure thoughts. I used to panic every time they came, for I did not want to go to hell due to my impurities, the more I feared them the worse they got. I became a slave to masturbation and was full of all manner of concupiscence.
I had felt alive without the law once, but when the commandments came, sin consciousness sprang to life and I felt condemned. The commandments that I believed were ordained to life if I obeyed them, instead brought death/condemnation for I could not keep them. I gave up with church in the end, for I would be a hypocrite to remain. On the outside I could act real holy but on the inside I was fully corrupted.
A few years later I read a book. In it was a chapter on Paul’s message of grace. I dared to believe I could be a Christian after all, for it did not hinge on my personal goodness but faith in Christ, that was my righteousness before God. But what of the sin? I was still full of all manner of concupiscence and a slave to masturbation, I just left it in God’s hands and trusted I was saved for Christ died for me. The next three days were real hard. A voice constantly told me in my head I could not be a chrisxtian and do what I was doing/masturbating. I was just being a hypocrite. It was so hard to ignore that voice after my earlier years, but I did, I trusted I was saved because Jesus died for me. On the fourth day, that sin I had been a slave to for many years stopped. As Paul wrote:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14
BTW
When I first reached puberty, obviously lust was not fully grown in me. But I knew desiring women was sinfull.
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Tim416
Guest
You are aware of post salvational sins for the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart at conversion, and : Through the law we become conscious/aware of sin Rom3:20
You will need to better explain your second question
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Tim416
Guest
BTW
There is nothing to debate here with these people. No matter what you write they cannot see, and no matter how many times you tell them you have no righteousness of works of the law they keep saying you do.
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Tim416
Guest
If you are referring to the law placed in both. You in your mind know what that law is, and you hacve heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress what is in your heart
People know not to lie, commit adultery and steal even before they become Christian.
Do you think only Christians think they are sin???
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Tim416
Guest
Gosh, they made you a moderator! I was reading a discussion in another thread between a mod and someone else. It mainly consisted of who had been to the most semmesters. It got rather heated.
Well now you know I got a lifetime ban, it is your responsibility to ban me here isn't it.
BTW
The law in your heart does not bring you to obey better, it simply means in your heart you want to live as God desires you to live. Your remark simply showed your lack of understanding this subject
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Tim416
Guest
Only Christians have heartfelt conviction of sin before God. There is a big difference, between the moral compass the individual chooses to live by, and the conviction that comes when God writes the law in your mind and places it on your heart. I would have to question whether a person had been truly born again if they did not understand that
No one in the Old Testament had any heartfelt conviction of sin before God?
Have you read the psalms?
Psalm 51:1-4
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
I don't question someone's Christianity because they think the 10 commandments are written on their hearts. I just question their knowledge of Christ and Scripture and what Christianity ACTUALLY is.
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Tim416
Guest
I am referencing heartfelt conviction of sin due to the lawe being placed in the believers heart under the new covenant.
As for your second part. Some years ago, I would have been as one with you on this, quoting the selective scriptures you quote, with your understanding of them. If I am completely honest, it shows me how far I have come since those days. And the credit is not mine at all.
You have had to ignore the plainest of scripture put to you, while I have addressed at least most of yours
I am refuting your mistake of thinking that the law, the 10 commandments are written on the Christians heart and mind.
I am also refuting your mistake of thinking that people can't feel heartfelt conviction of sin just by knowing the 10 commandments.
I don't think you have done a very good job of refuting anything I have posted. All you have done is posted scripture that you mistakenly believe upholds your wrong philosophy. I disagreed and showed you why I disagreed.
You just keep saying heartfelt conviction of sin due to the law AS If it were fact and its not. Its a lie that you believe. I have some ideas of why you believe it but I'm not 100% sure, yet.
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Tim416
Guest
So if you committed adultery, you would not have heartfelt conviction of sin as a Christian because you did so?
If you stole something you would not have heartfelt conviction of sin as a Christian because you did so?
If you bore false witness, you would not have heartfelt conviction of sin as a Christian because you did so?
Paul wrote:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31
Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law. He did come to die for our sins!
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Tim416
Guest
By the law being placed in your heart, it simply means in your heart you do not want to steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, take the Lords name in vain, you do not want any gods before your father in heaven. You have no righteousness of obeying it, no works of the law unto righteousness. Your sole righteousness is faith in Christ.
However you are still called a legalist who believes in the condemnation of the law
However you are still called a legalist who believes in the condemnation of the law
Where is your proof in scripture?
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Is that it?
The bible clearly shows sickness is a curse of the law, and yet so many Christians get sick under the law of grace. How is that?
And if we are all automatically forgiven of all sins, past, present, and future, then why are we told to confess our sins in order to be forgiven of them?
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I thought we were already forgiven and cleansed of ALL sins.
Proof? If I send you a wall of scripture, are you going to study it from a dipensational point of view? Or are you going to skim it, reject it, and come back with another wall of scripture that is not in The dispensation of Grace.....you could look into the subject, apparently we all have labels, and save me the work, read on it, and simply deny the possibility’, that it is sound doctrine....
I do not believe the same doctrine you are referring to, nor do I believe that the powers given to the deciples, equates to powers we see in the church....when someone is dying of sickness, it is not going to be healed simply by laying hands on them..( this is by no means doubt) I believe that God can and will do whatever he wants) Paul says that some are blessed with this gift....but it is not common.....which should also help you understand the dispensation that we are in...