Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

Tim416

Guest
#341
#341
Grandpa said:
I just told you that the ministry of Condemnation and Death has not lost its power to Condemn and Kill.

That is what brings us to Christ.

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that the Ministry of Condemnation and Death was just kidding now because we wrote it on your heart and mind.

The ONLY way for the law to not condemn you is to be Free from it by having come to Christ.

Sin will NOT have dominion over you for you are under Grace not law.

That statement can't be made if the Ministry of Condemnation and Death was written on the believers heart and mind.

YOU have failed to see the Truth.
Click to expand...
I fail to accept your irrational understanding.
Hopefully others will recognise and accept what you cannot see
The ten commandments were the ministration of death and condemnation because of the attached penalty for transgression. Without that penalty being in place there is no condemnation. Christ died to pay the penalty of transgression for believers. The Christian has no penalty to pay, it got paid for them. So they have no condemnation by that law being placed within them. As I am sure the mature will understand
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#342
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#342
If the law that points out sin still points out sin how does it not also condemn?

We just remember that the Lord Jesus Christ was the atonement for sin and then we are free to go back and try REALLY hard to obey that law that can't be obeyed?

When it comes to the law people are blind. How does a person receive Rest if the law of works is written on their heart and mind?

I don't know why there are so many people and so many religions that attempt to short circuit Christianity.

And they don't even know they do it.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#343
#343
Grandpa said:
If the law that points out sin still points out sin how does it not also condemn?

.
Click to expand...
The ten commandments were the ministration of death and condemnation because of the attached penalty for transgression. Without that penalty being in place there is no condemnation. Christ died to pay the penalty of transgression for believers. The Christian has no penalty to pay, it got paid for them. So they have no condemnation by that law being placed within them. As I am sure the mature will understand
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#344
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#344
Tim416 said:
I fail to accept your irrational understanding.
Hopefully others will recognise and accept what you cannot see
The ten commandments were the ministration of death and condemnation because of the attached penalty for transgression. Without that penalty being in place there is no condemnation. Christ died to pay the penalty of transgression for believers. The Christian has no penalty to pay, it got paid for them. So they have no condemnation by that law being placed within them. As I am sure the mature will understand
Click to expand...
Only judaizers and legalists will understand.

The Christian will KNOW its not true.

Only by Faith is the penalty paid.

The Law is not of faith.

Christ didn't pay the penalty of sin so that you could go back to trying to be righteous by your work at the law. That is ridiculous.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#345
#345
Grandpa said:
Christ didn't pay the penalty of sin so that you could go back to trying to be righteous by your work at the law. That is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
You are just robotically repeating statements that have many times been addressed.
There is no righteousness of works of the law, for the believers penalty got paid by Christ. The Christians righteousness is faith in Christ. But as Paul states:
Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#346
#346
Here is the new covenant:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:


16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’ Heb10:15-17

The law is written in your mind and placed on your heart God desires you to follow. Which law? Anything that gives you heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. But although that law is in your heart and mind, your transgressions of it will be remembered no more, for you have a saviour from your sin/Christ died for your transgressions
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#347
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#347
Tim416 said:
You are just robotically repeating statements that have many times been addressed.
There is no righteousness of works of the law, for the believers penalty got paid by Christ. The Christians righteousness is faith in Christ. But as Paul states:
Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law
Click to expand...
The Christians righteousness is faith in Christ.

Amen.

Now why in the wide world of sports would the ministry of Condemnation and Death be written on the heart and mind of the believer???

Wouldn't the New and Better Ministration of Righteousness rather be written on the believers heart and mind???
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#348
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#348
Tim416 said:
Here is the new covenant:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:


16 ‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’ Heb10:15-17

The law is written in your mind and placed on your heart God desires you to follow. Which law? Anything that gives you heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. But although that law is in your heart and mind, your transgressions of it will be remembered no more, for you have a saviour from your sin/Christ died for your transgressions
Click to expand...
Wrong.

Gods Law. The Law that convicts you of Righteousness.

The law that convicted you of sin was written on stone.

The law that convicts of Righteousness is written in our hearts. The Holy Spirit.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#349
#349
Grandpa said:
The Christians righteousness is faith in Christ.

Amen.

Now why in the wide world of sports would the ministry of Condemnation and Death be written on the heart and mind of the believer???

Wouldn't the New and Better Ministration of Righteousness rather be written on the believers heart and mind???
Click to expand...
Firstly, once again, it could only be the ministry of death and condemnation if the penalty for transgression is in place.

Secondly, it is a biblical fact, that anything that gives the believer heartfelt conviction of sin is law placed in their heart
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#350
#350
Grandpa said:
Wrong.

Gods Law. The Law that convicts you of Righteousness.

The law that convicted you of sin was written on stone.

The law that convicts of Righteousness is written in our hearts. The Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2cor3:3
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#351
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#351
Tim416 said:
Firstly, once again, it could only be the ministry of death and condemnation if the penalty for transgression is in place.
Click to expand...
Why so many warnings from Paul then?

Why didn't Paul just tell all the Judaizers "Don't worry, its not the ministry of condemnation and death anymore, there is no more penalty for transgression"?

Because what you are saying is not true. You just wish it was true.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#352
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#352
Tim416 said:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2cor3:3
Click to expand...
Not on tablets of stone.

Not with ink.

Not the same commandments that cause our Condemnation and DEATH.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#353
#353
Grandpa said:
Why so many warnings from Paul then?

Why didn't Paul just tell all the Judaizers "Don't worry, its not the ministry of condemnation and death anymore, there is no more penalty for transgression"?

Because what you are saying is not true. You just wish it was true.
Click to expand...
You are far too blinkered I am afraid
Christ said he did not come to abolish the law.
Paul said we do not make void the law, rather we establish it
Pauls core message was no righteousness of obeying the law.
2Cor3:6-9 refers to trying to be righteous by obeying the letter, for that letter kills if you want to be righteous under it.
So Paul says we establish the law but are not under it
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#354
#354
Grandpa said:
Not on tablets of stone.

Not with ink.

Not the same commandments that cause our Condemnation and DEATH.
Click to expand...
Anything that gives a believer heartfelt conviction of sin is law placed in their heart, according to your statement:
The law points out sin
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#355
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#355
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

These are Christians.

What is the big deal if there is no penalty for transgression?

Why wouldn't Paul just say Good Job you guys, you are saved AND you are working at the law. You are Brilliant!

Why would Paul even bring up the curse of the law if there was no more curse of the law (Galatians 3:10)
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#356
#356
I will you with the last word. This conversation is not remotely stimulating. In truth, it is hard for me to understand such immature understanding as I am reading in posts now
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#357
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#357
Tim416 said:
Anything that gives a believer heartfelt conviction of sin is law placed in their heart, according to your statement:
The law points out sin
Click to expand...
You've said that a couple times but it is just part of your imagination of there being no penalty for those who follow the law.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#358
#358
The trouble with this website is, you have some people going around screaming legalism and righteousness of obeying the law anytime the law is mentioned. It is very immature, though the people doing this consider themselves able exponents of the bible

1Cor8:2 comes to mind
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#359
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#359
Tim416 said:
I will you with the last word. This conversation is not remotely stimulating. In truth, it is hard for me to understand such immature understanding as I am reading in posts now
Click to expand...
This is what happens when someone short circuits Christianity.

You can't even imagine the Ministry of Righteousness being written on our hearts and minds.

It Has to be the ministry of Condemnation and Death because that is all you understand.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#360
#360
No one follows the law in their heart/or reflects the law in their heart by looking to it and striving to obey it. They look to Christ and rely on the sanctification of the Spirit within them to live as they in their hearts want to live. The more they do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in their lives(Gal5:23) And this fruit will not bring them into conflict with the law placed in their hearts and minds. For this fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live
 
You must log in or register to reply here.