Praying in Tongues

[obedienttogod]

I wasn't going to say anything, but now I must. The ISV does use the word languages. The Complete Jewish Bible uses the word tongues.. It's the translation from Hebrew.

It doesn't really matter because tongues is languages. Not babble. I speak words. And they aren't English. I didn't study any language but I look at the Hebrew and greek now. But, spoke in tongues before I studied.

Thank you, but we were not discussing the "Tongues" issue.

And Paul wrote Corinthians in Greek. And the word he used was languages, not tongues.

The Greek:


1 Κορινθίους 13: 8
Η αγάπη δεν καταλήγει ποτέ: αν και προφητείες, θα απορριφθούν ή γλώσσες, θα σταματήσουν
, ή τη γνώση, θα απορριφθεί. "

1 Korinthíous 13: 8 I agápi den katalígei poté: an kai profiteíes, tha aporrifthoún í glósses, tha stamatísoun


The proper English translation:
8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded."

 

[obedienttogod]

There is no Latin in that sequence, unless you're bound to the KJV, and then only in Revelation.

The word Lucifer in Isaiah is a Latin Vulgate word, that comes from a language that did not exist for another 700 years after the Book of Isaiah was written (which is in Hebrew/Aramaic). But the word Lucifer s in our English Bibles. So English did obviously translate Latin.

 

[stonesoffire]

Thank you, but we were not discussing the "Tongues" issue.

And Paul wrote Corinthians in Greek. And the word he used was languages, not tongues.

The Greek:


1 Κορινθίους 13: 8
Η αγάπη δεν καταλήγει ποτέ: αν και προφητείες, θα απορριφθούν ή γλώσσες, θα σταματήσουν
, ή τη γνώση, θα απορριφθεί. "

1 Korinthíous 13: 8 I agápi den katalígei poté: an kai profiteíes, tha aporrifthoún í glósses, tha stamatísoun


The proper English translation:
8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded."

Not sure yet if I am misunderstanding you or you me, or we are agreeing.
My point...tongues are languages. I speak more than one and know when they change. It's words. Just not English words.

So to say either language or tongues, it doesn't matter.

 

[Dino246]

The word Lucifer in Isaiah is a Latin Vulgate word, that comes from a language that did not exist for another 700 years after the Book of Isaiah was written (which is in Hebrew/Aramaic). But the word Lucifer s in our English Bibles. So English did obviously translate Latin.

"Lucifer" doesn't appear anywhere in either the NIV or the NASB. So, although it may be in some English versions, it certainly isn't in all English versions... so your point is moot.

Plus, a single word from a particular language, used as a proper name, hardly constitutes the path of translation going through that language. It was most likely a cultural holdover.

 

[Sherril]

wow glad thats over whew i was seeing you guys full out fighting.....woooo-nelie...like a tv drama wondering whats next...whew...

 

[Ignorun]

No you wasn't close.......not even half close.....let me break it down for you bro

1st year
1st semester 18
2nd semester 18

2nd year
1st semester 18
2nd semester 18

3rd year
1st semester 16
2nd semester 16

4th year
1st semester 16
2nd semester 16

I went 4 days a week, Tuesday thru Friday from 8 am to 2 pm

classes...."Bonehead English" <--what my teacher called it, Old Testament survey, New Testament, evangelism, Greek, Minor Prophets, Major Prophets, Hermeneutics, Homiletics, Bible Analysis, The Heart of Hebrew History, The Heart of the N.T., Church History etc........

I am not going to argue with you....I really did go.....92 to 96 and was going to go another year but had to go back to work full time because my handicapped son was born and it took almost a million his first year and I had to pay for insurance......

SO....if you do not believe me....oh well.........

Wow! Glad you posted this. It's a good, powerful example to all. Motivating. Had your goals, your challenges, and your priorities. Hope all is good for you and your son.

 

[wolfwint]

Here is the PROOF:


The English Translation:

John 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The ORIGINAL TRANSLATION:
John 16:
13 Yet whenever that may be coming - the spirit of truth -it will be guiding you into all the truth, for it will not be speaking from itself, but whatsoever it should be hearing will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you."

14 That will be glorifying Me, seeing that of Mine will it be getting, and informing you."

*******NOTICE HOW THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATION CALLS THE HOLY SPIRIT (IT)*******
*******NOTICE HOW THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION CALLS THE HOLY SPIRIT (HE)*******

IF you want the TRUTH you need to read the ORIGINAL TRANSLATION!!



YOU DO NOT CALL A PERSON AN (IT)!! The original calls the Holy Spirit and (IT). So, according to the Original Translation, the Holy Spirit (IT) cannot be a person!!

I learned in school; He /She/ It
That the greek use the neutral form can maby explained that the Holy Spirit is no male nor female.
But It is used as well for a person.
In german we have He/Er; She/Sie; It/Es; we would say das/It Kind/child
Why it should not used for a person. If you read the context of all the verses which talking from the Holy Spirit you cant deny that a person is meant.

Only, and there I agree with you, it is a mysterium. We got only from God revealed what we should get revealed.
With this revealation we are not able understand fully who and how God is. Ore how this triunity is function. And we dont must it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wow! Glad you posted this. It's a good, powerful example to all. Motivating. Had your goals, your challenges, and your priorities. Hope all is good for you and your son.

He still struggles but is blessed for sure.....thanks it has been a long haul......he has had about 13 surgeries, is on a food pump at night, he lost half of his small gut at three weeks, has a type of muscular dystrophy and is on oxygen every night and a bipap oxygen every other night ad about 15 trips a year to Children's hospital for tests but loves the Lord and the word of God.....I used to lay in his bed every night and quote verses to him his first 4 or 5 years.....lost 2 other children to the disease but know where they are........so..........I cannot gripe the Lord has given him 23 years so far even though they did not expect him to live 2 days..........thanks again.

 

[Ignorun]

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. (NKJV Strong's,)

1 Corinthians 1:31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.” (NKJV Strong's,)


2 Corinthians 10:17-18 But “he who glories, let him glory in the Lord.” For not he who commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends. (NKJV Strong's,)

You believe that's boasting! Are you kidding. You haven't a clue as to what boasting is. When I read it, I never got the impression of any boasting.
It's encouraging. Motivating.
You are confused. Now get our of your self righteous corner.

 

[Ignorun]

He still struggles but is blessed for sure.....thanks it has been a long haul......he has had about 13 surgeries, is on a food pump at night, he lost half of his small gut at three weeks, has a type of muscular dystrophy and is on oxygen every night and a bipap oxygen every other night ad about 15 trips a year to Children's hospital for tests but loves the Lord and the word of God.....I used to lay in his bed every night and quote verses to him his first 4 or 5 years.....lost 2 other children to the disease but know where they are........so..........I cannot gripe the Lord has given him 23 years so far even though they did not expect him to live 2 days..........thanks again.

Prayers. Thank you!

 

[Ignorun]

Have learned lots about several here.
I know

thank you

Another one of your misinterpretations
of what is written.

 

[garee]

While I am not apposed to special or extra education if God has blessed a person in that way .But what's the point seeing it could cause more harm than good. The law in respect to what the sign of tongues confirms and who it is speaking against is simply to see. And we are warned of those who say we must have a man to teach .Even the Son of man when called good master (teacher) gave glory to God unseen and said only God is good. Our Holy Father stands in the unseen Holy Place by his own self . In that way we are to call no man Master (Rabbi) on earth ...one is in heaven.

Saul had all the right credentials and had a false zeal for knowing God .Taking what was taught and went after a murderous spree . Even receiving letters from approval from men like Gamaliel, Tertullus. It would seem that studying the use of the "law of the father" would be more beneficial then who has a better education


I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.Acts 22

 

[Dino246]

While I am not apposed to special or extra education if God has blessed a person in that way .But what's the point seeing it could cause more harm than good.

So any time there is the potential for more harm than good, the enterprise should be abandoned or avoided? What's the point of anything then?

Seminary offers the opportunity for focused, guided study. A good professor will challenge the student to think beyond his or her experiences and biases, and introduce concepts and sources of information that were previously unknown. Can a professor lead a student astray? Yes... and will answer to the Lord for doing so. Can a professor inspire, encourage, and guide a student to greater effectiveness in ministry? Yes; that is the experience of most students.

Perhaps your approach is simply pessimistic, and instead you should consider how much good can be done through a seminary education.

 

[Kavik]

My point...tongues are languages. I speak more than one and know when they change. It's words. Just not English words.

Tongues, as referenced in the Bible are real, rational languages. What some Christians are producing today is non-cognitive non-language utterance; there are no 'words', it is not language. When these seemingly change from 'one tongue to anther', it's just another subset of sounds (in your native language, or any language you may have been exposed to) you're drawing from. The result is the illusion that several distinct "tongues" are spoken.

 

[1christian1]

Tongues, as referenced in the Bible are real, rational languages. What some Christians are producing today is non-cognitive non-language utterance; there are no 'words', it is not language. When these seemingly change from 'one tongue to anther', it's just another subset of sounds (in your native language, or any language you may have been exposed to) you're drawing from. The result is the illusion that several distinct "tongues" are spoken.

I agree with stone.. I believe that Jesus was just speaking another natives language... that they did'nt understand...

 

[IAm1]

"Now get our of your self righteous corner."

Now I understand why you are lost in your understanding of tongues. Your still trying to comprehend the English language

 

[Noose]

The reason why it seems to not be as much seen was because of the Apostolic age. And the ending of the Persecution age of the church. This led to what is known as the Constantine church age. Christianity now was no longer persecuted the authentic conversion experience (born again) was not needed. They could be a “Christian and still pagan. That is why the Holy Spirit was not doing what HE did in the “early Church age and the Apostolic age , and the persecution of the church age. Thus Christian in name only. BUT through history The Holy Spirit did great works down through the ages what were called Movements. The list of movements and later known as awakenings are well documented. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit did not cease they were recorded by many church fathers

Barnabas, Clement, the Shepherd of Hermas, Ignatius, Polycarp, Diognetus and many more like Origen. Luther , Calvin, Charles and John Westley

There's no such thing as church fathers, "Barnabas, Clement, the Shepherd of Hermas, Ignatius, Polycarp, Diognetus and many more like Origen" had biological sons and daughters and that's the furthest their fatherhood goes, anything above that should be coming from satan.

Matt 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

The awakenings :
The Great Awakening, 1734-43
1739, George Whitfield's dramatic preaching
The Second Great Awakening, 1800-1840. James McGready , Charles Finney, Jeremiah Lanphier
The Great Prayer Meeting Revival,
The Civil War Revival, 1861-1865.
The Urban Revivals, 1875-1885. Dwight L. Moody:
The Revivals of 1905-1906. Welsh Revival of 1904-1905
The Azusa Street Revival, 1906.
The Post-World War II Awakening.
Bill Bright
1949, Billy Graham's
The Charismatic Renewal and Jesus Movement.

There's also no such thing as awakenings or revivals, as far as the kingdom of God is concerned, no one can say there it is or here it is, or see that awakening or this revival, or see those in the corner speaking meaningless words, it is about the heart and only God knows the heart.
I thought you knew this:

Luke 17:20 When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Such a good list but a waste of time.

 

[Noose]

There are probably more miracles happening today than you realize. If we collected the thousands of accounts that have been witnessed to by missionaries and Christians worldwide, you might think that we are living in a world of miracles.

You would be more accurate in saying that you have not seen any genuine miracle today, not a single one. If this were the case, I would not be able to say the same.

“A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah”

True, there are more miracles today:

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and FALSE wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Rev 13:13 And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth,telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived.

 

[Noose]

So knowledge has stopped, really with who, you? I guess wisdom is not needed anymore too. I guess growning in the grace and kowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ has stopped too? Sorry Peter 2 PET 3:18 IS NOT CONTEXTUAL ANYMORE The " NOOSE" has spoken.
what an unlearned statement to make. You rip out pages of biblical words that teach wisdom and knowledge from the word of God and the Leading of the Holy Spirt, Jesus our Lord and the very word of the Father. You are very prideful and wrong.

Nope. You misrepresent my point.

Growing in knowledge and wisdom has not stopped and it won't stop even in the age to come. What has stopped is specific people within the assembly being appointed with the gift of knowledge and wisdom to teach others.
Just like healing has not stopped but the idea that someone has been appointed with the gift of healing and can go around healing people is no more. I have said in this forum; myself have been healed several times not because someone laid their hands on me- again, the kingdom of God has no observable signs.

Very very simple. If you want to argue, argue with this:

Jer 31:
34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

 

[Noose]

must be hard to fight against the pricks

where have I heard that before?

btw, fighting or kicking against the pricks actually means to kick against sharp wooden or metal object and hurt yourself

I believe people may have to answer for their reference to tongues as babbling meaningless words but it seems no one can keep you from your self harming tendencies

Attributing things to God that are not from God is equally blasphemous and they that do it will equally have to answer.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

The most disturbing thing about your statement is the fear. Fear is not from God, it shows you are not sure of what you talking about and you'd rather play safe with the masses and what you have been taught. on the contrary, i know what i'm talking about.

1 John 4:
15If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because He first loved us.