Praying in Tongues

[Ignorun]

How many people were raised from the dead under Paul's ministry? Can that very small number be characterized as "going around raising the dead"? No. In light of the impossibility of you knowing of every event on earth, does your ignorance of such events constitute proof that they doesn't happen? No.

Paul's miracles confirm his message of salvation through Jesus Christ, a new message to those in first century, still needing to be confirmed, that it was from God.
Years ago, Oral Roberts claimed God spoke to him, telling him to hunker down in prayer tower and pray and wait for money to be donated. No proof. Just a claim.
There's something to be said about the ignorance of not knowing of all events.
Jesus was met by multitudes, droves when he entered a city or town. They had heard of His miracles. Word spread. And sure enough he confirmed.
Recently I saw a most well known evangelist who holds healing crusades which are all over the internet. He was strutting through a major airport. Not a single solitary soul approached him to be healed.
If dead people were being raised up, we'd know about it.
Just my two bits.

 

[Noose]

the term cessation is not in the bible. it is not biblical it is a made up term .

Ok, let's mind the context; the context of cessation is there:

1 Cor 13:8Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[obedienttogod]

This is how the KJV Bible reads
1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be ((tongues)), they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Preachers have misinterpreted this scripture thinking it means the Holy Spirit Gift of Tongues.

But when you apply the right word and translation, this is how it properly reads in the Greek, which is actually how Paul wrote it.



This is the proper Greek translation
1 Corinthians 13: 8
Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or ((languages, they will cease)
), or knowledge, it will be discarded."

 

[Noose]

You do know there is the actual Greek verse to which the English you have was translated from. And it's obvious there was a mistake in translation because the word the English used actually means people's languages and they mistakenly translated it for Tongues?

So Paul is not even speaking about the gift of Tongues in that verse.

If you were as intelligent as you claim, you would know the English is a translation. Meaning, we have the actual Greek and can intelligently see this mistake. Well that is, except for you!!

It really doesn't matter, whatever it is, it ceased in the first century.

 

[RickyZ]

Never mind the context, it is clear that gifts will cease, whether at the end of age (as you may believe) or in the first century as i believe. So cessation is biblical no doubt, i'm only giving reasons why it is 1st century and not any other time.

The gifts will cease when they are no longer needed. Healing will cease when Christ returns and restores us to perfect health. Tongues will cease when Christ returns and restores our perfect singular language. Knowledge will cease when Christ returns and restores our ability to know and see perfectly instead of thru the glass darkly.

Or, the gifts will cease when a lack of understanding and faith causes one to cease desiring spiritual gifts.

That, my friend, is perfectly inexcusable.

 

[obedienttogod]

This is how the KJV Bible reads
1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be ((tongues)), they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Preachers have misinterpreted this scripture thinking it means the Holy Spirit Gift of Tongues.

But when you apply the right word and translation, this is how it properly reads in the Greek, which is actually how Paul wrote it.



This is the proper Greek translation
1 Corinthians 13: 8
Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or ((languages, they will cease)
), or knowledge, it will be discarded."

1 Κορινθίους 13: 8
Η αγάπη δεν είναι ποτέ χαμένη: όμως, αν προφητείες, θα απορριφθούν, ή (θα σταματήσουν (οι γλώσσες)
) ή της γνώσης, θα απορριφθεί. "

 

[obedienttogod]

It really doesn't matter, whatever it is, it ceased in the first century.

Nothing ceased. God did not make it cease, man did.

How can man make something of God stop working?

 

[RickyZ]

Well, he does have responsibility, right, to question and challenge your claim.
I question and challenge my conclusions. I question Mormons. As you know, they accept the claims of Joseph Smith.
Again, claims need to be and ought to be tested.

Makes me think of all the towns Jesus could not heal people in, because they questioned if He was in-network!

 

[Ignorun]

The Holy Spirit is definitely a part of God. Jesus said His miracles are done by the Holy Spirit, which shows us the Holy spirit is the Power of God. God in Genesis, Exodus, and Jesus in Matthew called the Holy spirit the personal Spirit of God. Since the Holy Spirit is connected to God like God's personal Spirit, if God wants to comfort us, help us in prayer, bears witness, leads, reveals, guides, be grieved, give gifts, God Spirit does these things.

But the English translators took a verse where Yeshua referred to the Holy spirit as it 5 (FIVE) times and changed it to the word (he) plus added 2 more for a total of 7 times.

How do we go from Yeshua calling the Holy Spirit (IT) in the Aramaic, to us reading it as (HE) in the English?

Obviously, the English translators gave the Holy Spirit personal qualities the original words of Yeshua did not.

So, who is correct...how it's written in Aramaic, or how it's translated in English?

Do we go by what Yeshua (factually) said, or by what the English translators want us to believe?

The neuter is of little consequence. It's context. The Holy Spirit is not an it.
Also Paul spoke Hebrew.
He spoke Greek.
I am convinced he could speak, as other apostles, any language needed as they went and taught.
I appreciate your response.

 

[obedienttogod]

The neuter is of little consequence. It's context. The Holy Spirit is not an it.
Also Paul spoke Hebrew.
He spoke Greek.
I am convinced he could speak, as other apostles, any language needed as they went and taught.
I appreciate your response.

But I quoted what JESUS said, not what Paul said.
Jesus in my opinion outranks anything Paul claims if it comes down to it.

 

[Ignorun]

But I quoted what JESUS said, not what Paul said.
Jesus in my opinion outranks anything Paul claims if it comes down to it.

Ok. It would include Jesus as well.
Wasn't pitting Paul against Jesus. Paul's message was given to him from Jesus.

 

[Noose]

The gifts will cease when they are no longer needed. Healing will cease when Christ returns and restores us to perfect health. Tongues will cease when Christ returns and restores our perfect singular language. Knowledge will cease when Christ returns and restores our ability to know and see perfectly instead of thru the glass darkly.

Or, the gifts will cease when a lack of understanding and faith causes one to cease desiring spiritual gifts.

That, my friend, is perfectly inexcusable.

You can write your own bible then, otherwise, i believe the bible the way it is:

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke to love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. .....

36For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise.
37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not delay.

This was written in the 1st century and the one they were waiting for came and did not delay. If i was to pick between you and Paul, i'd pick Paul any day.

 

[obedienttogod]

Ok. It would include Jesus as well.
Wasn't pitting Paul against Jesus. Paul's message was given to him from Jesus.

Which should alarm you, that if we have what Jesus said, and then it is changed by what Paul said, that like I mentioned the English translation is poor.

 

[Noose]

Healing will cease when Christ returns and restores us to perfect health.

Not really, not going to happen:

Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of His saints.

Isa 57:1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
devout men are swept away,
with none considering
that the righteous are guided
from the presence of evil.
2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace;
they find rest, lying down in death.

 

[RickyZ]

You can write your own bible then

Funny you should mention that, because I actually edited a Bible for YOU:

 

[obedienttogod]

Or, we can look at this way. King James was a ruthless tyrant and king and his bible is very biased in how he personally believed.

This makes more sense to me than the translators making a mistake.

 

[Noose]

Funny you should mention that, because I actually edited a Bible for YOU:

View attachment 193107

Or
Rom 13:11And do this, understanding the occasion. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, for our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.14Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

Can not be 21st century and counting.

 

[Dino246]

No, it's not a personal attack and i'm still waiting for your biblical support for the view that the gift of healing is exercised at the Lord's will and other gifts exercised not at the Lord's will.

Here are your words: "you clearly have no clue what you are talking about." That is not a request for evidence. It is a personal attack.

I don't respond to demands from people who don't demonstrate basic decency and respect.

 

[Dino246]

You do know there is the actual Greek verse to which the English you have was translated from. And it's obvious there was a mistake in translation because the word the English used actually means people's languages and they mistakenly translated it for Tongues?

So Paul is not even speaking about the gift of Tongues in that verse.

If you were as intelligent as you claim, you would know the English is a translation. Meaning, we have the actual Greek and can intelligently see this mistake. Well that is, except for you!!

This assertion doesn't line up with Scripture. The context is clear.

 

[Ignorun]

It is not that you question what has been said, it is that you lambast, mock, and scoff the witness as the Pharisees did even after hearing the witness and seeing the miracles. They attacked Jesus and the apostles as you do and other like you do today. When Jesus said a perverted generation seek for a sign, he was not talking about those having faith and asking God to do a work. Jesus was talking about those who out of pride say show me again or show me now and I will believe. Those types really are saying: IT IS REAL IF I SAY IT IS because I am educated and more knowledgeable then you ignorant fishermen and carpenter

Wrong. Moderation!
The difference, which you are unable to figure out, between challenging an unconfirmed claim and the Pharisees mockery, which you falsely accuse me of, which is what they did to Jesus to get him crucified, and so back at you, you're right in their camp, is they SAW the miracles and still denied.
As for your parroting the common and misuse if Jesus's words regarding a corrupt generation seeking a sign, as if that is applicable to any one who asks for confirmation of a claim.
You apparently believe every Johnny Come Lately. Joseph Smith, TV fake healers, Catholic popes thrive off people like you.
By the way, God told me, He just now told me you are wrong. Be careful. Dont challenge it. Don't deny it. Don't mock it.
Yep, He says you are wrong. And I just healed a man who was speaking gibberish!