Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!

[crossnote]

You realize the optimum words in that passage are the last 2. IN HEAVEN.

The whole reason they are locked in chains in tartarus is precisely because they abandoned their heavenly habitation, and had sex with "strange" flesh. Which to them, would be human flesh.

That word in Greek, okiterion, is used only one other time in Scripture. In 2 Corinthians 5:2, to describe the glorified bodies we will receive.

BTW, where did the 'strange flesh' passage come from? The closest I could find was...

Jude 1:6 KJV
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[obedienttogod]

The person who blasphemed the Holy Spirit in the Bible was not blaspheming Jesus.. They blasphemed the Holy Spirit..

People can indeed blaspheme the Holy Spirit these days because all True Christians are indwelled by the Holy Spirit just as Jesus had the Holy Spirit with Him..

If a person declares that a true Christian is possessed or a messenger of a demon when they are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then that person had blasphemed the Holy Spirit and will never be forgiven for doing so..

Outside the fact that there is no proof anywhere within the Bible that there are 3 separate persons who represent God, I believe "blaspheming" is another proof and key to this.

We can blaspheme the idea of God, blaspheme the person of God embodied as Yeshua and still be able to seek forgiveness. But to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (personal (S)pirit)(the connection to God in us and all true believers) we are damned with no possible chance at forgiveness.

What then makes the personal Holy Spirit of God more precious, that if to claim its nature is demonic, will doom us, when the actual person and idea of God we can get away with it?

It's because the personal Spirit of God, that has the ability to dwell within us, like it dwells within Christ, is the true power of God!! It's the power of God that allowed Him (God) to speak everything into existence. It's our power in God through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

When we break down the idea of God and the person of Yeshua, we utilize what happened outwardly like Death-Burial-Resurrection-Healing-Casting out Demonic Entities-Turning Water into Wine-Walking on Water-The Wind obeying His Command-anything physical.

But inwardly, where we cannot visibly see, this is all happening by the power of God, which is the personal Holy Spirit of God.

When we see preachers today, who are true and sincere to God, lay hands upon the sick and they become healed...the very Act of Faith enables our power in God through the Holy Spirit to work. We can see outwardly the laying upon hands and the sick become healed, but inwardly, we never see the amount of Faith or the power of God through the Holy Spirit being enabled. We only see the action and the result.

So clearly, blaspheming the idea of God and the person of Yeshua is not actually attacking God. But blaspheming the Holy Spirit, or the actual power of God, is attacking God to a degree it becomes unforgivable. It's the very power of God, known as the Holy Spirit, that is the most precious of all of God's attributes. And to place it equal to the little power of our Adversary, is such an act of defiance, that God Himself literally turns away and refuses to ever get past it!!

 

[Lanolin]

Isnt it some of them have a form of godliness but deny his power. From Such turn away.

To confuse the spirit of God with satan and his demons is blasphemy, God does not like it when people call evil good and good evil.

As for calvinists or any other ists...I have noticed whenver that is introduced in a discussion people get all nasty. I dont know what they would say about Jesus power to heal and rid people of demons. It seems to me those that adhere to the calvinist view are of the opinion that God cant heal anyone because they assume God condemns people before they are even born. But not themselves of course as they think they are the elect. Thus they are attributing satanic and demonic things to God without realising that Jesus is was sent to save the world, not to condemn it. He doesnt want anyone to perish.

That some people could refuse the gift of salvation troubles them but see God has given people ears to hear and eyes to see. It is SATAN that is blinding peoples eyes and ears to the gospel. Without acknowledging we have an enemy who opposes God, calvinists seem to attribute evil things to God. Which is a really sad and dangerous thing to do.

So if Through the power of the holy spirit, I am healed and someone comes along to me and says that wasnt healing its demonic...well God is not going to like that. Would it be the same as saying well God is puporsely blinding peoples eyes and ears to the gospel just so he can condemn them, cos God just likes to condemn people before they are born (except yours truly of course).

Well personally I think that is a really warped view of who God is, and for people to propogate that poisonous idea with that God just doesnt care about His creation, negates the whole redemption plan. While we were yet sinners, God loved us!

 

[PennEd]

BTW, where did the 'strange flesh' passage come from? The closest I could find was...

Jude 1:6 KJV
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

That passage goes on to link the sexual sin of going after strange flesh that the the men of sodom went after, with how angels ALSO went after strange flesh in a similar manner.

6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 AS Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[obedienttogod]

Outside the fact that there is no proof anywhere within the Bible that there are 3 separate persons who represent God, I believe "blaspheming" is another proof and key to this.

We can blaspheme the idea of God, blaspheme the person of God embodied as Yeshua and still be able to seek forgiveness. But to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (personal (S)pirit)(the connection to God in us and all true believers) we are damned with no possible chance at forgiveness.

What then makes the personal Holy Spirit of God more precious, that if to claim its nature is demonic, will doom us, when the actual person and idea of God we can get away with it?

It's because the personal Spirit of God, that has the ability to dwell within us, like it dwells within Christ, is the true power of God!! It's the power of God that allowed Him (God) to speak everything into existence. It's our power in God through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

When we break down the idea of God and the person of Yeshua, we utilize what happened outwardly like Death-Burial-Resurrection-Healing-Casting out Demonic Entities-Turning Water into Wine-Walking on Water-The Wind obeying His Command-anything physical.

But inwardly, where we cannot visibly see, this is all happening by the power of God, which is the personal Holy Spirit of God.

When we see preachers today, who are true and sincere to God, lay hands upon the sick and they become healed...the very Act of Faith enables our power in God through the Holy Spirit to work. We can see outwardly the laying upon hands and the sick become healed, but inwardly, we never see the amount of Faith or the power of God through the Holy Spirit being enabled. We only see the action and the result.

So clearly, blaspheming the idea of God and the person of Yeshua is not actually attacking God. But blaspheming the Holy Spirit, or the actual power of God, is attacking God to a degree it becomes unforgivable. It's the very power of God, known as the Holy Spirit, that is the most precious of all of God's attributes. And to place it equal to the little power of our Adversary, is such an act of defiance, that God Himself literally turns away and refuses to ever get past it!!

Scriptural proof of what I posted:

Matthew 12:

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


Verse 28 shows HOW JESUS is able to cast out demons:

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


So clearly, the POWER we visibly see through the idea of God and person of Jesus, is the (capital S) Spirit (Holy Spirit) of God. And that SAME HOLY SPIRIT/POWER of God lives inside of us.

Do any of us actually realize how much POWER we have living inside of us?

We have the SAME POWER that created the heavens and the earth and all things. The SAME POWER that heals, allowed Christ to walk on water and perform miracles. THAT SAME POWER is LIVING inside of us!! We should be in VICTORY 100% of the time. We should be able to walk past the lost and hopeless and save/heal them IMMEDIATELY!! We should have so much faith we are floating off the ground!! Inside of each one of us, is GOD'S POWER SOURCE, that is now OUR POWER SOURCE through God!!


2 more verses from Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Jesus in Matthew 12 ADMITS His POWER is from the Spirit of God, and when you equal the POWER of God's Spirit (God's personal POWER SOURCE) to the Adversary, it's over for you permanently!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Notice:

Verse 28, Jesus calls His POWER SOURCE the Spirit (capital S) of God.

Then in verse 32, Jesus clarifies WHO the Spirit (capital S) of God actually is, none other than the Holy Ghost.

So, the Holy Ghost is not a person, it's the PERSONAL SPIRIT and actual POWER SOURCE of God!!

 

[crossnote]

That passage goes on to link the sexual sin of going after strange flesh that the the men of sodom went after, with how angels ALSO went after strange flesh in a similar manner.

6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 AS Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

If you weren't the OP I'd say we are going off topic, but since you are I'd say this is a tough topic...

Jud 1:4-8
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(5) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
(6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(8) Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.


I could very well argue that verse 6 and 7 =are a parenthesis to the verses preceding and following, because the main subject is about those who 'crept in' turning God's grace into lasciviousness. V6 would be an example by the angels of those in v.4 (but not necessarily having sex with humans); V7 would be another example of lasciviousness.

It is an interesting topic though not one to dis-fellowship with other believers.

 

[bobinfaith]

Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.
So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.
Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:
Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

Hello PennEd:

God bless you and your family. I was up late last night reading your thread. I can accept your 1 principle and learn more about you, your testimony, and what you have learned from your study of God's Word and faith.

There is actually a 2nd overriding principle - that even you and I will not believe your or my doctrine or issue. What I'm sharing is, I have my core, Biblical standards and foundation in my home yet I fall short of upholding them or agreeing what I preach daily. My family, church family or community will not believe everything I do because of the contradictions, unfortunately, that I may display in my conduct, spiritual or emotional well being that goes against the doctrinal teachings of God.

We cannot even uphold the greatest Commandment of LOVE because we are broken people. Speaking for myself, I pray daily for LOVE to our Father and others as our Father because I struggle. So how can I consistently uphold the 20 fundamentals of another to be accepted by them?

Jesus taught this very thing in the Gospels. The people were overwhelmed from learning one's teaching of the fundamental, to be like them, while trying to keep up with another's teaching, to be like them. While the leaders were teaching with an iron first, they were overlooking their "1 or 2" principles. Jesus gave the example of governing the law with love, acceptance, patience, forgiveness, compassion....listening from our hearts insteading of reacting.

Just from reading everyone's posts in the next 14 pages makes their personal convictions with Christ a solid point. Though each believer can follow the teachings of God on a hermeneutical level, we cannot possibly "mirror" another's 20 fundamental doctrine, even with the Bible to back it in order to be that person's personal brother or sister in Christ.

The writers here and myself have our own story to tell for Christ, our families, our communities, our ministries and our jobs that are in the mix of our daily lives and efforts, that can challenge our fundamental doctrines so we cannot possibly be in total alignment with another's faith. But we can disagree and have a conversation. This can be a benefit because one's disagreement of my view can actually open my eyes. God has done that countless times with me, Praise Him!

I believe your thread, Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!! has allowed others to post, and just write within the verb of this topic. Allow us to get our mistakes, teachings or disagreements out in the open.

Is there ANYBODY...OUT THERE!!! Yes, this has been a great topic, (look at all the pages) I believe we're all here bonding for His glory.

God bless you, PennEd, and your family.

 

[bobinfaith]

On my phone so short as possible.
Faith not a work . Also a reformed person here .
Blessings
Bill

I was minding my own business, reading all these posts and then a LION popped out at me and realized it was you! lol!
It's good to see you, Bill. God bless you and your family, brother!

 

[PennEd]

Hello PennEd:

God bless you and your family. I was up late last night reading your thread. I can accept your 1 principle and learn more about you, your testimony, and what you have learned from your study of God's Word and faith.

There is actually a 2nd overriding principle - that even you and I will not believe your or my doctrine or issue. What I'm sharing is, I have my core, Biblical standards and foundation in my home yet I fall short of upholding them or agreeing what I preach daily. My family, church family or community will not believe everything I do because of the contradictions, unfortunately, that I may display in my conduct, spiritual or emotional well being that goes against the doctrinal teachings of God.

We cannot even uphold the greatest Commandment of LOVE because we are broken people. Speaking for myself, I pray daily for LOVE to our Father and others as our Father because I struggle. So how can I consistently uphold the 20 fundamentals of another to be accepted by them?

Jesus taught this very thing in the Gospels. The people were overwhelmed from learning one's teaching of the fundamental, to be like them, while trying to keep up with another's teaching, to be like them. While the leaders were teaching with an iron first, they were overlooking their "1 or 2" principles. Jesus gave the example of governing the law with love, acceptance, patience, forgiveness, compassion....listening from our hearts insteading of reacting.

Just from reading everyone's posts in the next 14 pages makes their personal convictions with Christ a solid point. Though each believer can follow the teachings of God on a hermeneutical level, we cannot possibly "mirror" another's 20 fundamental doctrine, even with the Bible to back it in order to be that person's personal brother or sister in Christ.

The writers here and myself have our own story to tell for Christ, our families, our communities, our ministries and our jobs that are in the mix of our daily lives and efforts, that can challenge our fundamental doctrines so we cannot possibly be in total alignment with another's faith. But we can disagree and have a conversation. This can be a benefit because one's disagreement of my view can actually open my eyes. God has done that countless times with me, Praise Him!

I believe your thread, Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!! has allowed others to post, and just write within the verb of this topic. Allow us to get our mistakes, teachings or disagreements out in the open.

Is there ANYBODY...OUT THERE!!! Yes, this has been a great topic, (look at all the pages) I believe we're all here bonding for His glory.

God bless you, PennEd, and your family.

Thank you Pastor for your blessing. May God Bless you and yours as well.

I do want to reiterate the impetus for starting this thread. First I was genuinely interested if there WAS somebody out there that believed on all these issues the same as I do. I did NOT expect there to be anyone. But A couple said yes and couple said very close.

But more importantly is the concept that just because we may differ on some doctrines, doesn't mean we aren't part of the Body of Christ.

I set apart the 1st 5 on the list. In my own mind at least, I don't consider someone a member of the Body, if they reject any of them.

The rest of the list is fine to discuss and debate but shouldn't preclude anybody from being a Christian. Some would add a few numbers besides the 1st 5 to make that claim.

Looking forward to fellowship with you!

 

[bobinfaith]

Its because we are all learning and read the Bible at different speeds. I dont think anybody really has read all the Bible the moment they are saved/born again. Or if they dont even have a Bible, God doesnt reveal everything at once. Its something you have to seek His word and wisdom on.
Thats why everyday, just pray and read the Bible and God will show you more. You cant ask anyone else to interpet the Bible you need the holy spirit to teach you. Because every word of scripture is inspired and its best to ask the Author.

There are also differing Bible translations, and not only that differnt versions in the same language, so when believers compare them there can be discrepencies. And some people rely on commentaries and theologiansa bit too much and this can skew their reading of scripture. They may be bible scholars, but even bible scholars can be mistaken. Some bible scholars are even unbelievers...! I think ok its natural to be skeptical but at some point you have to take what God says on faith and not try and pick holes in everything cos this is the living GOD Almighty we are talking about not something like an idea that man made up, or literature thats fiction. Its the HOLY Bible.

Hello Lanolin;

I get what PennEd is sharing and feel his thread opened this topic to learn from everyone. I agree with you that we all learn from being discipled at different paces. I'm amazed how God has raised young believers from study, prayer and realizing their gifts and ministries served. This ministers to me, for example;

When I shared with you about music I taught Biblical concepts of conduct and what was expected in the music ministry prior to leading worship on Sundays. Not everyone agreed with the whole concepts. I was mixing theology by pointing out Asaph, one of David's chief worship leaders.

I kind of felt the concepts were somewhat outdated. One of the singers would nod out during the devotion. Late last year God led a former music leader back to our church and he brought in fresh, new teachings that most, if not all, the musicians and singers received.

It's good to fellowship with you again.

God bless you, Lanolin and your family.

 

[preacher4truth]

Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

Oh, you heretic!!! Lol, just kidding you brother!

 

[bobinfaith]

Thank you Pastor for your blessing. May God Bless you and yours as well.

I do want to reiterate the impetus for starting this thread. First I was genuinely interested if there WAS somebody out there that believed on all these issues the same as I do. I did NOT expect there to be anyone. But A couple said yes and couple said very close.

But more importantly is the concept that just because we may differ on some doctrines, doesn't mean we aren't part of the Body of Christ.

I set apart the 1st 5 on the list. In my own mind at least, I don't consider someone a member of the Body, if they reject any of them.

The rest of the list is fine to discuss and debate but shouldn't preclude anybody from being a Christian. Some would add a few numbers besides the 1st 5 to make that claim.

Looking forward to fellowship with you!

Hello PennEd;

Thank you. I understand what you were sharing on the 5 and 15 points and this gave me much to think about in my personal prayers, questions and learning from Christ.

Do you teach Bible study at your church? I look forward to more discussions with you.

God bless you, PennEd, and your family.

 

[crossnote]

Oh, you heretic!!! Lol, just kidding you brother!

I love your Ryle quote in your sig., although it has gained me many enemies and a couple of banishments. lol

 

[PennEd]

Hello PennEd;

Thank you. I understand what you were sharing on the 5 and 15 points and this gave me much to think about in my personal prayers, questions and learning from Christ.

Do you teach Bible study at your church? I look forward to more discussions with you.

God bless you, PennEd, and your family.

I do, however I'd prefer the term "discussion facilitator" as teachers are going to be held more accountable! LOL

And this was a bit of a rough Wednesday. We are in Romans 8, about to jump into 9, and we had to confront the Predestination - Free will issue. Nothing gets passions going more than that talk!

 

[Adstar]

If a born again, Holy Spirit filled, Child of God can succumb to satan and blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then Jesus's prayer to His Father is in vain, and of no effect.
John 17:
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

I never said a true Christian would ever do such a thing... But there are plenty of false christians who very well may.. And i have witnessed some doing so..

 

[Adstar]

I think we're missing the whole point in making this thread.
You just proclaimed the essence of the must have 1st 5 on my list to be a brother or sister in Christ.
I can guarantee you the Calvinists definitely agree with the 1st 5.

The others are debatable. I disagree with much of what you believe, but recognize you as a brother because of the 1st 5.

I have never made the rejection of calvinism essential to ones salvation status...
But i see plenty of calvinists making such claims against people who reject the doctrines of calvinism..

 

[Adstar]

Thanks for your advice. I'll try to slap myself lol

But I disagree that a mistake in judgment on a Christian is blaspheming the Holy Spirit

I believe it was a very specific thing: It was saying that Jesus did His works through an evil spirit. When in reality Jesus did it through the HOLY SPIRIT.

That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Now if I were to say that: Benny Hinn is a phony fake false prophet. Is that blaspheming the Holy Ghost? No, that is me giving my HONEST opinion using DISCERNMENT and accounting for all the failed prophecies he has made and other things.
Do you agree bro?

Well i can say i disagree with people who hold a certain doctrine as truth without Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.. You will never read me saying that calvinism is a doctrine of demons.. Like wise you can believe that Benny Hinn is a phony / false prophet and you are not saying that Benny Hinn is speaking for the devil..

But if Benny Hinn was indwelled and inspired by the Holy Spirit and someone called him and his teachings demon possessed or doctrines of demons then yeah that person would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit..

Now i do not believe in the teachings of benny hinn.. But i will not be calling him an agent of satan.. I don't have to do that.. I can disagree with His teachings and move on..

 

[Spiral2]

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

[/QUOTE]
18 is a problem for me. The holy Spirit, speaking in tongues is an out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the heart as well as when The Holy Spirit has a message for someone and needs an interpretation. I know this because it happens to me in my worship. We are not strong enough to fight the devil but Jesus who lives in our hearts is . So eyes fixed on Jesus, praying to Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit, you find your self praying or singing in tongues. It is beautiful and for all. Jesus knows what you are praying but the devil doesn't know. Jesus calls us to pray. Jesus can and has the power to do anything but he places things on our hearts, we pray and then he works.

A extra point on Baptism. Total submersion is baptism. It means to die of the old life and come out of the water with a new life. It is a public demonstration of what Jesus has done for your life. In the NT it usually says people believed and were baptized. They didn't seem to wait long after believing, ( being saved) before they were baptized. Probably because they were not in church buildings, they were out in the field preaching near water where people would gather. There does not seem to be a strict time table as to when you get baptized after you have been saved. Most would say it is when you know what it means and how important it is to you when a young Christian. However God does tell us we should do it. So to get baptized is an act of obedience to God to show everyone publicly, 'I believe in Jesus, this is what happened to me. Jesus saved me, my old selfish life had died, my new life with Jesus as head has begun. It is a new life'. and is just that. After we are saved we should be living with Jesus as head of our lives, learning his ways and being transformed into his likeness, loving others the way Jesus does.
It is why babies can't make the decision to be baptized because they don't understand the meaning, they are not old enough. Dedication or Christening is displaying your child before your church family and asking God to bless the child and look after him/ her, lead him/ her and also asking members of the church family to help you bring the child up in the way of the Lord.
However, we never know what Jesus is doing in peoples lives. And that is why we should continue to pray for people. The robber along side Jesus on the cross got saved while he hung there. He did not have time to go get baptized . He could not get off the cross. But Jesus said he would see him in paradise. People can get saved in the last minute of their lives. Impending death makes people turn to Jesus. It is an instinct, an inside natural need to reach out to their maker. Jesus can save someone in a heart beat.

 

[PennEd]

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE

18 is a problem for me. The holy Spirit, speaking in tongues is an out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the heart as well as when The Holy Spirit has a message for someone and needs an interpretation. I know this because it happens to me in my worship. We are not strong enough to fight the devil but Jesus who lives in our hearts is . So eyes fixed on Jesus, praying to Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit, you find your self praying or singing in tongues. It is beautiful and for all. Jesus knows what you are praying but the devil doesn't know. Jesus calls us to pray. Jesus can and has the power to do anything but he places things on our hearts, we pray and then he works.

A extra point on Baptism. Total submersion is baptism. It means to die of the old life and come out of the water with a new life. It is a public demonstration of what Jesus has done for your life. In the NT it usually says people believed and were baptized. They didn't seem to wait long after believing, ( being saved) before they were baptized. Probably because they were not in church buildings, they were out in the field preaching near water where people would gather. There does not seem to be a strict time table as to when you get baptized after you have been saved. Most would say it is when you know what it means and how important it is to you when a young Christian. However God does tell us we should do it. So to get baptized is an act of obedience to God to show everyone publicly, 'I believe in Jesus, this is what happened to me. Jesus saved me, my old selfish life had died, my new life with Jesus as head has begun. It is a new life'. and is just that. After we are saved we should be living with Jesus as head of our lives, learning his ways and being transformed into his likeness, loving others the way Jesus does.
It is why babies can't make the decision to be baptized because they don't understand the meaning, they are not old enough. Dedication or Christening is displaying your child before your church family and asking God to bless the child and look after him/ her, lead him/ her and also asking members of the church family to help you bring the child up in the way of the Lord.
However, we never know what Jesus is doing in peoples lives. And that is why we should continue to pray for people. The robber along side Jesus on the cross got saved while he hung there. He did not have time to go get baptized . He could not get off the cross. But Jesus said he would see him in paradise. People can get saved in the last minute of their lives. Impending death makes people turn to Jesus. It is an instinct, an inside natural need to reach out to their maker. Jesus can save someone in a heart beat.[/QUOTE]


Well, just to prove my point, I don't agree or disagree with this post.