Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

You "harmonize" to your own liking and satisfaction.

Take me up on my challenge....
Dcon won't because he knows he can't.
Can you?

Quit referencing me and lying about me and what I can or cannot do.....Proverbs 6 for you Fran if you cannot be honest and or truthful!

 

[dcontroversal]

digging deep means " keep redefining words until they mean what fran says they mean ". right ?? right ??.


if you recall, you were " digging deep " when you got banned.

hahahhaahhaahhahaha now that was funny and made me laugh outloud

 

[GodsGrace101]

I’ll get back with you on this post later. It’s hard for me to deliver mail and post on Christian Chat at the same time.

LOL
Do you also chew gum at the same time?
Late here anyway...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fran.....we do not attack you personally, but what you believe and espouse.....I am sure that in person you are probably as nice as they come.......but make no mistake, I believe you push that which is false and that is what I stand against.

We are equal opportunity debaters, it does not matter if your male or female, if you say you do not teach works, yet continue to talk works, we will continue to call you out.

 

[dcontroversal]

My understanding is "dead" means unproductive. Not an indication one is not an actual believer. If good works are "proof" one is truly saved, it contradicts nearly everything Paul taught.

"However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5)

Most leave out the verbiage..."LIKE A" which is not "A"

 

[dcontroversal]

i've never understood this thing where someone has encountered the LIVING GOD and has the Holy Spirit of God in them, yet they still decide to just "stop believing" one morning.

How is that possible? I just cant see it being a possibility for a born again believer.

It is not possible....concerning faith....

Jesus begins
Jesus finishes
Jesus complete
Jesus remains faithful even if we falter

It is all Christ ir it is false!

 

[dcontroversal]

We are equal opportunity debaters, it does not matter if your male or female, if you say you do not teach works, yet continue to talk works, we will continue to call you out.

Exactly and if you devalue Christ, his work, his promises, his power and his ability to finish what he started.....we will for sure lay it bare.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

I think that is a body of works.

A new creation which does no work unless they die right after they were saved, i would question the validity of their faith.

What about the fact that one who has believed has already done the work of the Heavenly Father by believing....technically speaking they have 1 work already......??

 

[GodsGrace101]

Quit referencing me and lying about me and what I can or cannot do.....Proverbs 6 for you Fran if you cannot be honest and or truthful!

Oh for goodness sake!
Grow up.
You talk about me all the time and without tagging me.
I forgot to tag you this one time.

Don't get all....

 

[GodsGrace101]

What about the fact that one who has believed has already done the work of the Heavenly Father by believing....technically speaking they have 1 work already......??

Oh now BELIEVING is a work?
Where will it all end???

 

[GodsGrace101]

Does not the scripture say that the law is written upon our heart when born from above? The law is just rules that are to be followed. It doesn't require a change of heart. Grace however is not just unmerited favor but the power of Holy Spirit within one, with our human spirit...that has been justified and sanctified by faith in the blood of Jesus. The Word....Jesus....dwells in us. We aren't separate from Him.....united now with Him. Not by works....faith.

Faith is power in the spiritual realm. Our heart is a new heart given. New nature. Created in Christ Jesus.

Late here.
Maybe tomorrow we could talk about the two covenants you mentioned?
Hope I remember....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Quit referencing me and lying about me and what I can or cannot do.....Proverbs 6 for you Fran if you cannot be honest and or truthful!

Oh P:S:
If you COULD do it......
go verse by verse with me...
then why don't you?

Why am I not truthful?
You haven't taken me up on my offer till right...
NOW.

 

[TruthTalk]

I see. You're saying Jesus contradicts Himself then? (No I am not saying any such thing).

So are those who were attached to the vine in John 15 not saved?
So some the father gave to Jesus were dried up and detached from the vine and burned?

What's the story here?
Could it be that in John 6:39 is not speaking about people but what Jesus accomplished on the cross, which has already been established on this thread, BTW.

People will also be resurrected on the last day.
The people that believe in Jesus....not those who lose their faith.

John 3:16

Hi Fran, my advice to you is sharpen your "interpretation skills"; why?, nobody likes a dull knife in the kitchen when you're cooking a boneless rib roast for you family, same is true here. There are "Rules of Interpretation." and you truly need more practice applying those rules, like it or not.

And please give a close listen to those who care about you on this thread they are really trying to help you.

Scripture harmonizes with scripture period.

There are no contradictions in these two verses.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that 'I shall lose none of all those he has given Me', but raise them up at the last day.

John 15:6
6) “If anyone does not abide in Me he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "

 

[dcontroversal]

could you explain this a bit more.

How do is choked out spiritually is SAVED? or d.
because Jesus said every tree that doesnt bear fruit is cut off to the fire so, how do we explani that with choked out spiritually still saved?

The analogy is that of a garden with one planting seed.....or I will use a food plot for deer....I broadcast seed by hand every time I do a food plot.....both will produce based upon soil preparation, moisture, fertilizer and how well we keep the weeds down....

Weeds (worldliness) will choke the plants (born again spirit) and in so doing keep the fruit production down to a mimimum....or the fruit will be stunted in growth because the weeds (worldliness) will rob the plants (born again spirit) of nutrients, moisture etc. which resulted in stunted growth and or productuon of fruit.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran.....we do not attack you personally, but what you believe and espouse.....I am sure that in person you are probably as nice as they come.......but make no mistake, I believe you push that which is false and that is what I stand against.

D,
If someone replies to my personality or the condition of my soul...
this is a personal attack.

What is not a personal attack is when another member and I have an interesting conversation---even if we don't agree.

YOU attack me too...but you're so used to it you don't even realize it anymore.
Just because you think I push what is false, does not make it so.

And, yes, I'm very nice.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The analogy is that of a garden with one planting seed.....or I will use a food plot for deer....I broadcast seed by hand every time I do a food plot.....both will produce based upon soil preparation, moisture, fertilizer and how well we keep the weeds down....

Weeds (worldliness) will choke the plants (born again spirit) and in so doing keep the fruit production down to a mimimum....or the fruit will be stunted in growth because the weeds (worldliness) will rob the plants (born again spirit) of nutrients, moisture etc. which resulted in stunted growth and or productuon of fruit.

Come on D.
CHOKED OUT
does not mean keeping the fruit supply to a minimum
or the fruit will be stunted.

CHOKE means to kill and/or to die.

Good try mate. (as you always tell me).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What about the fact that one who has believed has already done the work of the Heavenly Father by believing....technically speaking they have 1 work already......??

It is the work of God we believe, faith is not a work.

But a person who got saved and got baptised, they have a work.

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe only one of them produced fruit, so only one had faith.

The other three are examples of other different responses to the gospel.

A. Rejects, no conversion lost
B. Recieves, (believes) but since it was not rooted in christ, (had no root) they walked away
C. Others tried to mix the world with christ,, but again, since had no root, what they truely had faith in chocked their “belief” in christ out and they walked away (the antichrist of 1 john who dpearted but were never saved)

That is why I said I know we disagree.....and no offence but your analogy leave no room for spiritually immature believers and or worldly believers which is why I disagree....

They with JOY received the word....the word RECEIVED means to take to oneself....

Receive with meekness the engrafted word

To them that RECIEVE HIM....

It is a completed action

dechomai: to receive
Original Word: δέχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dechomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dekh'-om-ahee)
Definition: to receive
Usage: I take, receive, accept, welcome.
HELPS Word-studies
1209 déxomai – properly, to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation (1 Thes 2:13) and thoughts (Eph 6:17).

 

[GodsGrace101]

What does that say about Jesus who hung out with sinners?

I think you must be aware how charismatic Jesus must have been.
Besides the fact that He was 100% God (and 100% man).
Jesus came to save sinners....He was supposed to hang out with them.

If WE hang out with sinners....we might become like them.
(not necessarily).

 

[dcontroversal]

Come on D.
CHOKED OUT
does not mean keeping the fruit supply to a minimum
or the fruit will be stunted.

CHOKE means to kill and/or to die.

Good try mate. (as you always tell me).

No need to reply to your drivel.....and My family owns 1000 acre farms and I have weeded gardens for 45 years.....I see the result of weeds and what they do to plants.....your losable salvation blinds you to many truths!