Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#561
#561
Macabeus said:
No, Budman is judging me as a works salvationist because I believe that we are kept by the power of God through faith. Budman started arguing with me when I said continuing faith is evidence of salvation.

Go back and read from where we started talking
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So do you think a person can lose faith? And by it stop being saved?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#562
Dec 27, 2018
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#562
eternally-gratefull said:
So do you think a person can lose faith? And by it stop being saved?
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Lol, how do you get that from what you quoted. Mxxuddddd
eternally-gratefull said:
So do you think a person can lose faith? And by it stop being saved?
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Lol, you just said the EXACT OPPOSITE of the quote you were replying to. Let me say it more clearly. Continuing faith in evidence of genuine conversion.

Do you agree, or do you think perserverance, being kept by God is a mark of false conversion? Or that a person can be kept by God even though they have not been converted?

Would you say that it is God's intention to keep those He saves in the faith? Yes or no?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#563
Dec 27, 2018
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#563
Macabeus said:
Lol, how do you get that from what you quoted. Mxxuddddd


Lol, you just said the EXACT OPPOSITE of the quote you were replying to. Let me say it more clearly. Continuing faith in evidence of genuine conversion.

Do you agree, or do you think perserverance, being kept by God is a mark of false conversion? Or that a person can be kept by God even though they have not been converted?

Would you say that it is God's intention to keep those He saves in the faith? Yes or no?
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And if it is God's intention to keep us in the most holy faith, does He fail at that intention?

So no one can resist His will, unless they're a Christian? A Christian can resist God's will by departing from the faith that God wills to keep Him in?

Believing a true believer can die in unbelief is inconsistent with Calvinist, for
Macabeus said:
Lol, how do you get that from what you quoted. Mxxuddddd


Lol, you just said the EXACT OPPOSITE of the quote you were replying to. Let me say it more clearly. Continuing faith in evidence of genuine conversion.

Do you agree, or do you think perserverance, being kept by God is a mark of false conversion? Or that a person can be kept by God even though they have not been converted?

Would you say that it is God's intention to keep those He saves in the faith? Yes or no?
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So if it is God's intention to keep His Elect in the faith, does He fail at that intention? That would be very inconsistent Calvinist. So I assume you're not a Calvist then.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#564
#564
Macabeus said:
And if it is God's intention to keep us in the most holy faith, does He fail at that intention?

So no one can resist His will, unless they're a Christian? A Christian can resist God's will by departing from the faith that God wills to keep Him in?

Believing a true believer can die in unbelief is inconsistent with Calvinist, for


So if it is God's intention to keep His Elect in the faith, does He fail at that intention? That would be very inconsistent Calvinist. So I assume you're not a Calvist then.
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Here is your post

Macabeus said:
No. But that doesn’t address the question. The father said the prodigal was dead and lost. Is a backslider dead and lost?

Plus, I don’t think you understood my answer to the question. I said a person who lives in unrepentant rebellion has no scriptural basis to assume he’s a christian

Now a question for you. If a professed believer dies as an adulterer, fornicator, a liar, a thief, etc. will they inherit the Kingdom? What does Paul say? Have they ever known God, according to John.
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It appears you Re saying the prodigal child if he dies in his sin lost his salvation.

That is why budman is questioning you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#565
#565
Macabeus said:
So if it is God's intention to keep His Elect in the faith, does He fail at that intention? That would be very inconsistent Calvinist. So I assume you're not a Calvist then.
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Why would you think i am calvinist?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#566
Dec 27, 2018
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#566
Macabeus said:
And if it is God's intention to keep us in the most holy faith, does He fail at that intention?

So no one can resist His will, unless they're a Christian? A Christian can resist God's will by departing from the faith that God wills to keep Him in?

Believing a true believer can die in unbelief is inconsistent with Calvinist, for


So if it is God's intention to keep His Elect in the faith, does He fail at that intention? That would be very inconsistent Calvinist. So I assume you're not a Calvist then.
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to lol and shouldn't have, but it seemed like you were twisting my words, but maybe it was a sincere question so I apologize
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#567
Dec 27, 2018
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#567
eternally-gratefull said:
Here is your post



It appears you Re saying the prodigal child if he dies in his sin lost his salvation.

That is why budman is questioning you
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So you think someone who is dead and lost is saved. Jesus was speaking to Pharisees about harlots and sinners who were Jewish and we're believing on Him. Context is King. Plus he disagreed with me way before that

Gotta go for now
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#568
#568
Macabeus said:
So you think someone who is dead and lost is saved. Jesus was speaking to Pharisees about harlots and sinners who were Jewish and we're believing on Him. Context is King. Plus he disagreed with me way before that

Gotta go for now
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Were they ever saved? You spoke of a prodigal son, a prodigal son was a son.
 
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Macabeus

Banned
#569
Dec 27, 2018
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#569
eternally-gratefull said:
Were they ever saved? You spoke of a prodigal son, a prodigal son was a son.
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They were lost sheep of the house of Israel. They were lost as publicans and sinners. They were found when they came to Jesus

What scriptural basis do you have in assuming the publicans and sinners were born again and eternally secure before they came to Jesus, which is when they were found.

You have a missed the entire purpose and meaning of the parable of the prodigal son. The parable is speaking to the Pharisees who were complaining that Jesus was saving sinners. He was in effect saying "if you love God, you would rejoice that these sinners are coming to me, WHY DONT YOU JOIN THEM, PHARISEES?

If you and Budman did correct exegesis, you would know that the Prodigal was the Publicans and sinners and the elder brother was the Pharisees. We're the Pharisees saved and eternally secure? Umm... No. Was Jesus calling them as lost sheep of the house of Israel to repent? Yes.

Do you want to see a careful exegesis of the SINGLE three part parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, lost som
 
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Macabeus

Banned
#571
Dec 27, 2018
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#571
Macabeus said:
Do you believe in irresistible grace?
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I bet if you're not Calvinist, I can show you where the inconsistency of your posts is in a few questions. Maybe anyways

1. Do you believe in irresistible grace?
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#572
Mar 9, 2014
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#572
Macabeus said:
You have it backwards, Budman. The fact that one is saved and knows God determines how they will live their life.
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Deflection. It's not what I asked. So, Ill ask again:

"Do you believe how one lives their life after they become saved, will determine whether they go to heaven or hell?"

Yes or no?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#573
Dec 27, 2018
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#573
Budman said:
Deflection. It's not what I asked. So, Ill ask again:

"Do you believe how one lives their life after they become saved, will determine whether they go to heaven or hell?"

Yes or no?
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No, I believe that the fact that one is saved will determine how they live. Just as I already said

For example,do those who hate have eternal life in them?

according to John, no

Isthe fact that they don't hate the determining factor in if they go to heaven?

no, the fact that they have God's life in them the fact they love
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#574
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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#574
Macabeus said:
No, I believe that the fact that one is saved will determine how they live. Just as I already said

For example,do those who hate have eternal life in them?

according to John, no

Isthe fact that they don't hate the determining factor in if they go to heaven?

no, the fact that they have God's life in them the fact they love
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Edit. The answer to your question is no. Rather,I believe that our love for God determines how we live.

A. Question. Do people who hate their brother have eternal life in them?

Answer. No

B. Does the fact they love, not hate determine whether they go to heaven or not, is is it the determining factor?

Answer- no, the fact they have eternal life in them is the reason they abide in love

We already went through this repeatedly. If you disagree, take it up with the apostle John when you see him.

Also, your application of the prodigal son is a mishandling of the text. See the post I posted last night on that matter
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#575
#575
Macabeus said:
They were lost sheep of the house of Israel. They were lost as publicans and sinners. They were found when they came to Jesus

What scriptural basis do you have in assuming the publicans and sinners were born again and eternally secure before they came to Jesus, which is when they were found.

You have a missed the entire purpose and meaning of the parable of the prodigal son. The parable is speaking to the Pharisees who were complaining that Jesus was saving sinners. He was in effect saying "if you love God, you would rejoice that these sinners are coming to me, WHY DONT YOU JOIN THEM, PHARISEES?

If you and Budman did correct exegesis, you would know that the Prodigal was the Publicans and sinners and the elder brother was the Pharisees. We're the Pharisees saved and eternally secure? Umm... No. Was Jesus calling them as lost sheep of the house of Israel to repent? Yes.

Do you want to see a careful exegesis of the SINGLE three part parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, lost som
Click to expand...
You still did not answer the question.

Since you are refusing to respond to what we are asking you. Do not yell when we think what we see and judge you as beliving that way, you have given us no reason to think otherwise.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#576
#576
Macabeus said:
Do you believe in irresistible grace?
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No (see i can answer) i do not, grace is given to all, we see by the world people can resist it, it was offered to Israel and they resisted it.

As i said many times, i am not a calvinist by any, means.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#577
Dec 27, 2018
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#577
eternally-gratefull said:
No (see i can answer) i do not, grace is given to all, we see by the world people can resist it, it was offered to Israel and they resisted it.

As i said many times, i am not a calvinist by any, means.
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So how do you resist saving grace? Are you saved because you did not reject grace?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#578
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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#578
eternally-gratefull said:
You still did not answer the question.

Since you are refusing to respond to what we are asking you. Do not yell when we think what we see and judge you as beliving that way, you have given us no reason to think otherwise.
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Answer what? Your mishandling and poor exegesis of the Prodigal Son? I have answered every question you asked me
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#580
Aug 22, 2014
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#580
Budman said:
You haven't Jim. If you did so, you would no longer sin.

What you're advocating is rehashed, John MacArthur style Lordship Salvation.
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Nope, your just putting a fleshly label on me, ignoring the clear word of God, I never quoted John MacArthur, nor read or listened to him very much, I've only quoted the bible if you look, and you never even answered any of it to be honest. Please take a step back and see which one of us is actually standing on His word, and which one is only wanting to proclaim sin's dominion over all forever. Really man you are proclaiming sin. I mean this as no insult man, please understand that, but you have a false understanding of what a Christian is, and I HAVE to speak truth. I am not just trying to be right, I was you before, sitting in a church thinking I was "in the club", completely ignorant of the POWER and Truth of God, and no one ever challenged me on these things. If you think Jesus only died so you can have a clean conscience in your sin, you are wrong brother. If you think being reborn, coming to KNOW God is real and Jesus Christ IS His Son isn't a forever life altering event, then we are not talking about the same God. Please tell me in your own words so I can know, what exactly does being Christian mean to you? What exactly is a Christian? Please define for me what is the difference in being saved and being fallen. What is being in Adam as opposed to being in Christ? Because I do not think we are talking about the same thing here.
 
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