Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

Did I say we lose salvation if we sin?
Maybe you could read what I say instead of thinking you're reading what I say.

I said:

IF we hold Jesus responsible for EVERYTHING,,,
then we must hold HIM responsible for when we sin too.

I must leave.

straw man

Whatever.
Yes, Mr. Pope.

classy

YOU are the one making grace cheap NNM !!
Not me.

Apparently you don't know what the term means.
Maybe while I'm away you could find out?

Then we could talk again.

so mature

You don't know enough about Perseverance of the Saints.
If you did, you'd agree with me in a split second.

You don't know enough, and I'm not the one to teach you --- thankfully.

if im kindergarden ... is this preschool🤔

@dcontroversal


You make comments but refuse to engage me in a real biblical discussion.
Just FYI,,, I've been studying the Bible longer than you've been on Earth.

And you're misleading people, just like some preachers do because what you say sounds good.

Why don't you tell us all what believe means?
Why don't you tell us all why the verse says IT instead of THEM???
John 6:39

as if this isnt a dead horse already like he never answered that

also false accusations against a child of God

Greasy grace, as you call it.
It's all over this thread.

where... show me where bills definition of greasy grace is "all" over this thread?

should be at least 51% to make such a claim

Here we go....
I sure hope @BillG sees this post.

All silly comments with no firm conversation.
Like in kindergarten.

Speak of being a hypocrite !!

As you judge,
so will you be judged.

🤔

 

[dcontroversal]

I have ALSO quoted many verses many times.

I don't tire of it because I have the truth.

WHY do you get tired of quoting verses?

And WHEN did you quote all these verses you keep talking about?
All is see is yada yada yada comments from you.

You do not have the truth, what you have is the catholic religion repackaged.....A false salvation that can be lost and or maintained by self effort....neither are of or from God.....end of story Fran

 

[GodsGrace101]

Keep believing that pharisee....see how that "WORKS OUT FOR YOU"

Lord, Lord have I not done many wonderful works....LET ME IN I DESERVE IT!!!!!

Also, you should stop calling me a Pharisee.

Don't you know what Jesus said about the Pharisees??

Mathew 23:3
"therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. "

Jesus said to DO what the Pharisees instructed the Jews to do....
The problem was that the Pharisees DID NOT DO what they taught !

It's actually the OPPOSITE of what you teach.
Jesus WANTS us to do what the Pharisees said.

The problem is that they didn't PRACTICE what they PREACHED.

Again, the OPPOSITE of what YOU teach.

 

[stonesoffire]

BINGO!!

Thanks for looking into this.

I can add that WE are also raised as is said many times in scripture...
If we have faith in the end.
Faith is what saves.

If we continue in our faith, we are saved eternally.
If our faith comes to an end, then so does our salvation since it is IN CHRIST that we have the life.
No Jesus....No life.

John 11:25-26
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Notice that Jesus always speaks in the present tense.
He who believes (right now) in Him is saved.
Not someone that believed in Him but now no longer does.

Fran, those scriptures also say that it's not the will of Father that any of creation or mankind, be lost.

A believer experiences the results of faith. Initially it is the new birth.

A believer may go through periods of misunderstanding scriptures, or having to deal with the past ideas of the nature of God. Things hidden within the soulish area of our life. And we have an enemy who whispers doubt and if we don't recognize the source of that voice, we may be confused about our salvation.

But, God knows how to save His own. He also knew us before we appeared. We learn to battle with the sword of truth. And keep our armor on. To know that the armor is actually the presence of God, within and without us. These things will "keep" us in faith because it's God.

Remember Fran....if the root is holy, so are the branches. Now you can look at this as the position that never changes, this being the will of inheritance left by our elder brother to His body; or look at it as if it is old covenant, and God breaks off those branches He's not pleased with....works.

It is always and only will be the works of Jesus that saves us. And it's the works of Jesus through us that saves others. Anointed words is what we desire...from above.

 

[GodsGrace101]

BTW the following is false

Salvation that can be lost or forfeit
Salvation that must be maintained and or helped by works

No matter what you post the above 2 are false....not of God and not found in scriptute....

Give us some scripture......

 

[GodsGrace101]

BTW the following is false

Salvation that can be lost or forfeit
Salvation that must be maintained and or helped by works

No matter what you post the above 2 are false....not of God and not found in scriptute....

D,
You missed post no. 80,704.
Please read it and answer it for us all.
Thanks.

 

[dcontroversal]

Give us some scripture......

We are KEPT by the power OF GOD through Faith

THE SAME FAITH JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES IN US

The above, alone flat refutes your losable salvation that states we must maintain faith to remain saved.

HE BEGINS IT
HE MAINTAINS IT
HE FINISHES IT
HE COMPLETES IT

NOT YOU OR I have said ability....IT IS ALL JESUS ot it is NOT OF GOD.

 

[dcontroversal]

D,
You missed post no. 80,704.
Please read it and answer it for us all.
Thanks.

I did not miss anything....sometimes I refuse to chase your rabbit around in the religious circles of I keep myself saved religious ineptism....

 

[dcontroversal]

Also, you should stop calling me a Pharisee.

Don't you know what Jesus said about the Pharisees??

Mathew 23:3
"therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. "

Jesus said to DO what the Pharisees instructed the Jews to do....
The problem was that the Pharisees DID NOT DO what they taught !

It's actually the OPPOSITE of what you teach.
Jesus WANTS us to do what the Pharisees said.

The problem is that they didn't PRACTICE what they PREACHED.

Again, the OPPOSITE of what YOU teach.

Not hardly.....we are talking salvation not ongoing sanctification or service which you cannot help but conflate....the religion in you....!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran, those scriptures also say that it's not the will of Father that any of creation or mankind, be lost.

A believer experiences the results of faith. Initially it is the new birth.

A believer may go through periods of misunderstanding scriptures, or having to deal with the past ideas of the nature of God. Things hidden within the soulish area of our life. And we have an enemy who whispers doubt and if we don't recognize the source of that voice, we may be confused about our salvation.

But, God knows how to save His own. He also knew us before we appeared. We learn to battle with the sword of truth. And keep our armor on. To know that the armor is actually the presence of God, within and without us. These things will "keep" us in faith because it's God.

Remember Fran....if the root is holy, so are the branches. Now you can look at this as the position that never changes, this being the will of inheritance left by our elder brother to His body; or look at it as if it is old covenant, and God breaks off those branches He's not pleased with....works.

It is always and only will be the works of Jesus that saves us. And it's the works of Jesus through us that saves others. Anointed words is what we desire...from above.

I agree with all you've said except for the works idea.
I truly don't know what the problem is.

You speak of cutting off branches and how we cannot lose our salvation.
In post no. 80,704 (and in other posts) I posted a lot of verses that show we CAN lose our salvation.

Of course, God desires all men be saved.
2 Peter 3:9
1 Timothy 2:4
John 12:32

This does not mean that all will. It depends on whether or not we're wearing the proper clothing...Jesus is the proper clothing.

In the parable of the Wedding Banquet the ones that were already AT THE TABLE, but were not properly dressed were thrown out where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mathew 22:11
Mathew 22:13

Jesus Himself tells us in Luke 8:13 that some BELIEVED FOR A WHILE and then fell away when tribulation came. I'M not the one saying these things....JESUS is saying this.

I believe the doctrine of OSAS is a very dangerous doctrine that could lead a weak believer to lose his faith by believing that he can do as he wishes and still be saved. Posters right here have stated this.
Not too long ago...within the past day or two (a female).

Jesus taught that there are rules to be followed if we want to stay in the Kingdom of God here on earth. I do believe that this is what should be taught since Jesus Himself taught this. He spent much more time teaching about the Kingdom than being saved.

And if you want to talk about branches...how would you explain this?
Also said by Jesus:

John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not hardly.....we are talking salvation not ongoing sanctification or service which you cannot help but conflate....the religion in you....!!

Well, if you believe that salvation is not on-going sanctification, then we have a problem here.

If you don't continue in sanctification...
HOW are you still saved?
IF you read post 80,704, which is all bible verses,,,are you saying you don't agree with the bible?

 

[GodsGrace101]

We are KEPT by the power OF GOD through Faith

THE SAME FAITH JESUS BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES IN US

The above, alone flat refutes your losable salvation that states we must maintain faith to remain saved.

HE BEGINS IT
HE MAINTAINS IT
HE FINISHES IT
HE COMPLETES IT

NOT YOU OR I have said ability....IT IS ALL JESUS ot it is NOT OF GOD.

This isn't scripture.
It's your opinion.

So you don't think people lose their faith?
Watch this... A sample only. There are many like him...

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, if you believe that salvation is not on-going sanctification, then we have a problem here.

If you don't continue in sanctification...
HOW are you still saved?
IF you read post 80,704, which is all bible verses,,,are you saying you don't agree with the bible?

The problem is your interpretation of scripture.....ongoing sanctification has nothing to so with the act of being born again (saved) from above by incorruptible seed and receiving the free IRREVOCABLE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE ONCE FOR ALL......like I said...you conflate too many truths into the salvation equation which results in a false gospel that requires man to maintain that which JESUS ALREADY MAINTAINS.....

 

[dcontroversal]

This isn't scripture.
It's your opinion.

So you don't think people lose their faith?
Watch this... A sample only. There are many like him...

opinion...two direct referenced quotes....you are hopeless.....and absolutely missing the mark!

 

[Rightlydivided]

I thought that the gospel of the kingdom is Christ in us, the hope of glory. Doesn't scripture say that the kingdom of God is within us?

Jesus was responding to the Pharisee, he meant that they would not recognize the messiah with their understanding....it would not be physical until his second coming on earth

 

[GodsGrace101]

The problem is your interpretation of scripture.....ongoing sanctification has nothing to so with the act of being born again (saved) from above by incorruptible seed and receiving the free IRREVOCABLE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE ONCE FOR ALL......like I said...you conflate too many truths into the salvation equation which results in a false gospel that requires man to maintain that which JESUS ALREADY MAINTAINS.....

I'm gonna leave D.
I think you need a break from me-

Let me say again...I don't conflate anything.
Please treat me as if I know something, even if you don't agree with me.
Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS as you may know.

Again,,,,if it's JESUS maintaining what is required of me and I have nothing to do with it...
It means HE is responsible for sin. Have you thought this over?

OSAS is really not biblical, and is a rather dangerous idea at that.

How about picking out one verse and we could go over it tomorrow?
Whichever one you wish.

Good night.

 

[GodsGrace101]

opinion...two direct referenced quotes....you are hopeless.....and absolutely missing the mark!

???
Yo no intiendo.

 

[Laish]

???
Yo no intiendo.

opinione ... due citazioni di riferimento diretto .... sei senza speranza ..... e manca assolutamente il marchio!
Blessings
Bill

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree with all you've said except for the works idea.
I truly don't know what the problem is.

You speak of cutting off branches and how we cannot lose our salvation.
In post no. 80,704 (and in other posts) I posted a lot of verses that show we CAN lose our salvation.

Of course, God desires all men be saved.
2 Peter 3:9
1 Timothy 2:4
John 12:32

This does not mean that all will. It depends on whether or not we're wearing the proper clothing...Jesus is the proper clothing.

In the parable of the Wedding Banquet the ones that were already AT THE TABLE, but were not properly dressed were thrown out where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mathew 22:11
Mathew 22:13

Jesus Himself tells us in Luke 8:13 that some BELIEVED FOR A WHILE and then fell away when tribulation came. I'M not the one saying these things....JESUS is saying this.

I believe the doctrine of OSAS is a very dangerous doctrine that could lead a weak believer to lose his faith by believing that he can do as he wishes and still be saved. Posters right here have stated this.
Not too long ago...within the past day or two (a female).

Jesus taught that there are rules to be followed if we want to stay in the Kingdom of God here on earth. I do believe that this is what should be taught since Jesus Himself taught this. He spent much more time teaching about the Kingdom than being saved.

And if you want to talk about branches...how would you explain this?
Also said by Jesus:

John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Good questions. I'm not sure you will accept my answer.

Again....the old covenant is a contract between God and man. You do this...I do that.

A baby boy became a citizen of Israel through circumcision. By the work of the Rabbi that does this. A physical act. It's obedience to what God required but it's faith in an action of man. The Old Covenant.

Today we become citizens of heaven by the spiritual circumcision of flesh from our nature. The human nature is cut off...and we become spiritual men and women through faith. And most of us not knowing anything about what has happened. We just know we are changed. The act of God by the hearing of the gospel and believing which by the way means to cast ones' whole being on the work of Jesus. To trust in Him fully for our complete salvation. This is our inheritance that Jesus has left for us, and circumcision is just the beginning. It's our new birth.

The linen garment is missing from the one at the wedding supper. The righteouseness of God found in Christ Jesus.

And we as part of His body will be never be cut off. He's the tree of life, and we eat and drink of His Cross, subsequent sacrifice of blood on the mercy seat.....and of resurrection life.

God has given us all we need for godliness....cant remember where exactly that scripture is right now. We would taint our inheritance if we tried to add something of self to the work of Jesus.

 

[posthuman]

You're answering to a calvinist idea.
Are you one?

i'm not a [insert any human's name here]-ist. i just happen to know the answer to the question 'how does someone who believes God chose to save them have assurance that in the future they will still be saved?'
the answer is that God is faithful, and He will do it. He will complete what He began, because He is the Author and Finisher of such faith