I just want to say that I do agree with you that the free gift is salvation.
Not By Works
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David Pawson isnt a calvinist btw, hes a charismatic preacher.
Doesnt believe in OSAS. So there goes that. No assurance of salvation in your system either. You can never know if you are doing enough, you can never know if you sinned too much and its game over.
Thats a philosophical argument.
To me its all irrelevant. You can know you are saved, no matter what "positioN" you take in my opinion. I KNOW whom I have believed, Paul said.
As I said:
The TWO most important things for YOUR LIFE(By your i mean EVERYONE reading this) in this world are:
1. KNOW that you are saved.
2. KNOW that you are in the will of God in your life.
if you got those two things, you are smooth sailing
LOL
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
LOL
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
LOL
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
Well, best case scenario, you’ll be a fruit inspector unto others, and a hypocrite unto yourself.....and blind to the effects of it.
Maybe you could explain to your buddy eternally grateful how YOU are being the fruit inspector and I'M the fruit.
Speak of being a hypocrite !!
As you judge,
so will you be judged.
I do not have an issue with fully accepting what Christ did for me....Grace through faith without works....period. That is the starting point. Forever secured, sealed
Met with the guy, prayed with guy.
Went to his seminars as he lives in my region.
God's grace may be received in vain (believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose) when it is received superficially or externally (1 Corinthians 15:2) or when neglecting the importance of the Corinthians responding to God’s grace in humble obedience and seizing every opportunity to be pleasing to the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:9). Those who teach that we are saved by works, saved by faith + works, saved by grace plus law, faith plus works etc.. are not believers.
Amen!
We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9). Righteous works are produced "out of" faith and are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. Works-salvationists have this backwards. I do not nullify the word of God and I have no tradition. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10)
God will expose everything and only God is capable of fully judging men's hearts.
Amen! Yet I get the feeling you "add" more to that, namely, salvation by works.
There it is. Jesus showed the rich young man how short he falls of keeping the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young man confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus.
The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. If keeping the commandments is the basis by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - keep the commandments, yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, he said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."
Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). None of us have "perfectly obeyed" all of His commandments. We have all fallen short (Romans 3:23) although believers do "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments (1 John 2:3). This is the demonstrative evidence that we have come to know Him.
1 John 2:6 - the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. In what manner? Love (Ephesians 4:2-3; 1 Peter 4:8; 1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7)
So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him
Faith is essential to salvation and obedience which follows is the fruit, but not the root of salvation. You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse. Faith is the root of salvation and good works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is not a check list of works or salvation by works.
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
That is the demonstrative evidence that we are in Him but how do we get into Christ? Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
First we are saved when we BELIEVE ON HIM (John 3:15,16,18) then afterwards living the Christian life results in suffering for Christ.
Nice to hear.
do you know how he is doing now? I got no doubt the man is saved. I was just sad to see his unsureness
Maybe you could talk to him and tell him that he can know he is saved. Give some hope to him
LOL
I don't have a system!
I believe salvation can be lost...the N.T. is clear on this. I'm not going to post more verses.
However, I also believe in security in my salvation...all it takes is what you said...
1. Believe in Jesus---follow Him, obey Him, trust in Him.
If you (anyone) do the above, He will never let you down.
If we don't deny HIM, HE will not deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
We die with Him...we live with Him.
If we endure to the end (believe in Him) we will reign with Him.
If we do NOT deny Him, He will NOT deny us before our Father in heaven.
I can choose to abide with Jesus my whole life.
As to knowing if we're in the will of God...that's a bit more complicated.
How can we know? We can only live as He would want us to and do our best.
That's about all we can do.
I know whom I have believed....
To finish....
2Ti 1:12 That is why I suffer as I do. However, I am not ashamed, for I know the one in whom I have put my trust, and I'm convinced that he is able to protect what he has entrusted to me until the day that he comes.
2Ti 1:13 Hold on to the pattern of healthy teachings that you have heard from me, along with the faith and love that are in the Messiah Jesus.
2Ti 1:14 With the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us, protect the good treasure that has been entrusted to you.
How can we know God's will; because it is revealed page after page in scripture,
"not complicated read your bible."
1 Thessalonians 4:
It is God's will that you should be sanctified:
Amen and Paul said he was fully persuaded that Christ would KEEP PAUL UNTIL THAT DAY.....the bible teaches eternal security.....end of story!
Amen.........irrevocable is as clear as it gets when it comes to the gifts and calling of God.....salvation is A FREE GIFT THAT CANNOT BE EARNED OR MAINTAINED....CHRIST KEEPS US by his power through the FAITH HE BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES.....all that peddle a salvation that can be lost deny Christ, his work, power, words and promises......!
Actually Fran....we are judging what you espouse by the word....and what you push does not equate to truth...
The gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE
Salvation is ONE of the IRREVOCABLE GIFTS.....it is MAINTAINED BY CHRIST, kept by Christ, held by CHRIST and he WILL COMPLETE that which he began in ALL BELIEVERS......
And the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD are IRREVOCABLE
What does the word IRREVOCABLE mean Fran? Wake up Fran to the truth. The gift of eternal life is set....GOD DOEA NOT CHANGE HIS MIND and NOTHING WE DO CAN CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN BORN ABOVE ETERNALLY BY INCORRUPTIBLE SEED!
ametamelétos: not repented of
Original Word: ἀμεταμέλητος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: ametamelétos
Phonetic Spelling: (am-et-am-el'-ay-tos)
Definition: not repented of
Usage: not to be repented of, about which no change of mind can take place, not affected by change of mind.
some where, we will pay a price, for it is written,
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, you shall reap what you sow'.
even as David had Uriah killed for his own lust, he certainly paid the price,
the events in his life speaks and bears witness -
cursed for a time, but, blessed for eternity'...
it is written:
'there shall always be a just weight and balance'...
and
EZ. 18:29.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of The Lord is not equal. O house of Israel,
are not My ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, you shall reap what you sow'.
even as David had Uriah killed for his own lust, he certainly paid the price,
the events in his life speaks and bears witness -
cursed for a time, but, blessed for eternity'...
it is written:
'there shall always be a just weight and balance'...
and
EZ. 18:29.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of The Lord is not equal. O house of Israel,
are not My ways equal? are not your ways unequal?