Praying in Tongues

[garee]

Which Charismatics? Quote them please.

Sign gift Charismatics.

 

[Dino246]

Sign gift Charismatics.

Quote them please, and don't lump everyone who defends tongues in with them.

Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Tongues is a sign as a curse against those who mocked God with their oral traditions of the fathers. With mocking lips he mocked them brining His word in other languages other than Hebrew alone . The language offended the faithless Jews and still does to this day . Refusing to hear the new testament in false pride. They still seek after a signs and wonders gospel not acknowledging the veil is rent.

and the blind shall lead the blind

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yes it has been made clear. Charismatics seek after a sign and wonders gospel to cause a wonderment to confirm they have the Holy Spirit . Why else would they seek after making a noise with no understanding to confirm something?

dude, you have proven beyond doubt that you are the one with no understanding

why else would you consistently blaspheme what you do not understand?

you are mocking the Holy Spirit

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Another?

I am still waiting for your answer in respect to the law found 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 as to what the sign confirms, a blessing or a curse and who it is pointing at? Once you give that answer then we can move on. The foundation must be established to start the merry go round then the rest of the doctrine can be built?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

What does the law say?

quit fibbing. you have been duly answered but refuse to acknowledge it. quite dishonest on your part...or are you stalling for a reply to refute the truth but can't find it?

from post 147

is denying scripture and making up your own narrative mocking God?

how about addressing the detailed response I gave you in reply to your question?

gonna do that or not?

here it is again in case you cannot find it:

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?

17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. I Corinthians 14

Regarding 1 Cor.14:21-22:

you will find tongues and prophecy mentioned together quite a few times in scripture and there is even note of speaking in 'angel tongues or tongues of angels'.

YOU are hung up on the word PROPHECY and DO NOT UNDERSTAND that the word is NOT always mean to foretell the future.

Prophecy also means to FORTHTELL...expound on the Bible or deliver a message that is above the knowledge of the one speaking.

Paul makes mention of unbelievers hearing tongues and being converted...as per Acts or a per interpretation that would convict the unbelieving hearer.

1 Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

the point Paul is making is in reference to the unbeliever in a church hearing tongues being used improperly. never ever does Paul say do not use the gift of tongues; rather his emphasis is on using it properly and within the context of instructions so as to benefit the hearer

once again, I have engaged you in this type of discussion a number of times and you are not in the habit of acknowledging answers which indicate your comprehension of the meaning of prophecy in the context used, is faulty

I do not respect you saying things like It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to?

rather than respond to what I write, you now change your tact and try to accuse me of not being able to answer you which is utter nonsense, ESPECIALLY in light of the previous exchanges we have had

if you cannot respond to my actual answer rather than twist what I say or ignore it altogether, it shows, quite adequately, that you CANNOT answer, you do not understand and can offer nothing to rebuff other than your constant musings on prophecy

I have answered your question regarding what Paul means but I don't at all believe it will satisfy you, again, because you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how the word prophesy is being used or the fact it has more than one meaning in scripture

I have entertained this type of thing from you in the past, but you know, it's enough. rattle on but not to me unless you actually wish to discuss the above IN CONTEXT without changing or twisting what I wrote

 

[7seasrekeyed]

from post 205...second time I posted and now it is THREE times

HERE IT IS AGAIN. SEE WHAT BIG LETTERS I USE SO YOU CANNOT MISS IT

New Testament gift of prophecy

1. It is still valid and useful for the church today. This is the clear implication of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 and Acts 2:17-18.
2. It is a Spirit-prompted, Spirit-sustained, utterance that is rooted in a true revelation (1 Corinthians 14:30), but is fallible because the prophet’s perception of the revelation, and thinking about the revelation, and report of the revelation are all fallible. It is thus similar to the gift of teaching which is Spirit-prompted, Spirit sustained, rooted in an infallible revelation (the Bible), and yet is fallible but very useful to the church.
3. It does not have an authority that is on a par with Scripture, for Scripture is verbally inspired, not just Spirit-prompted and Spirit-sustained. The very words of the biblical writers are the words of God (1 Corinthians 2:13; 2 Timothy 3:16). This is not true of the words that come from the “gift of prophecy.”
4. The New Testament gift of prophecy is a “third category” of prophetic utterance between the categories of 1) verbally inspired, intrinsically authoritative, infallible speech spoken by the likes of Moses, Jesus and the apostles; and 2) the speech of false prophets spoken presumptuously, without inspiration and liable to condemnation (Deuteronomy 18:20). Those two categories (absolutely infallible vs. false) do not exhaust all the biblical teaching on prophecy.

Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated 1 message or report in human words 2 usually made to the gathered believers 3 based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit 4for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance 5 but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment 6 on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching 7 and mature spiritual wisdom.

1. Recognize God’s complete sovereignty in giving gifts freely to whomever he wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; Hebrews 2:4).
2. Recognize that not all will become prophets (1 Corinthians 12:29).
3. Desire earnestly this gift (1 Corinthians 14:1,5,39). Pray for it (1 Corinthians 14:13).
4. Be grateful for the gifts you do have; use them to the full; rejoice that others are different from you; and avoid all jealousy (1 Corinthians 12:14-29).
5. Make love your aim in all things; realize that love is the greatest miracle and the surest sign of God’s blessing; grow more and more toward solid, stable biblical maturity (1 Corinthians 14:1,12,26,37; 2:14).
6. Muster the courage to speak out what you believe (with more or less confidence) may be given to you from the Lord in gatherings designed for this less-structured expression (1 Corinthians 14:26).
7. Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).

SOURCE

there is also a difference between prophecy and prophesy

 

[GraceAndTruth]

And objective observation and cogent unbiased assessment.
The present day blubbering babblers are bogus no doubt about that.

Exactly

 

[7seasrekeyed]

so, third time I post the response garree says I did not post

so whatever garee. whatever

I think you must read the Bible the same way. if you don't like what it says, you do a mashup of unrelated and taken out of context scripture and form your own doctrine.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I tried to aim that at a broader perspective than just at you. Yes discernment has ceased not just in the world but among a lot of Christians. It's part of the polarization of the world, the farther you get to an edge the less you can see of the other side. And you have to see both sides to have something to discern between. So as a personal poke my apologies, as a broader warning I stand by it.

Here's where I see our discernment part -



You look at all these peripheral things and make a pronouncement. It's AAAAll bad

I look at the Bible and I try what it says. Then I look at the results and decide whether it's right or not, whether it does what it says it will do. And to that I have to say, yes, it does.

Now, this is when I look at that list of people you make your first source of information, and yeah, I'll agree with your discernment that they are all out to lunch.

That's where we part. You discern based on the actions of other people. And I agree with you about the actions of other people.

I discern based upon trying what the Bible says, and seeing if I get the prophesied result. And you won't agree with that.

Does one trump the other? Only God really knows, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah

 

[GraceAndTruth]

But this not equalize what he said in 1. Cor. 12, 30 and what he said there is clear for me.



I agree with you Till your last sentence. Anyhow they stopped After the apostolic Time. Exactly when nobody knows. Thats Why we dont find this teaching during the churchhistorie.

Then I have to wonder why Paul couldn't heal him with his gift.

 

[garee]

The Holy Spirit didn't interpret at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit enabled the disciples to speak in other tongues. See Acts 2:4.

The Holy Spirit put his words on the mouth men as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. They understood each other as in a two way conversation. In the same way Christ put his words on the mouth of Balaam's Ass to restrain the madness of that false prophet as a false apostle.

Like every spiritual gift its two fold. It blessed the speaker as it gives the person the utterance of the Holy Spirit as well as the one he gives ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. …..No private interpretations of men.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with "other tongues," as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Acts 2:4-8

Every time the gift worked in man it does not say for instance Philip who spoke Hebrew could understand the language of the Ethiopian, Amharic and vice versa. Scripture does not say they were bi-lingual
.
Acts 8:29-31 King James Version (KJV)Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Another example it does not give us the two interpretations (Hebrew and Italian) as a conversation when Peter could not understand the vision And the Italian was given the gift so that he could convey the message in Hebrew to have a conversation with each other in order edify the church as when two or three gather together according to the authority of prophecy .

Acts 10:1-3 King James Version (KJV)There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Garee, you are a warrior, but even so, sometime the battle is not ours. ya know?

 

[wolfwint]

that is some confusing comparison

seems some people will go to great lengths to explain why they do not believe what the Bible clearly states

Bible states clearly, that not all get/ got the gift of speaking in tongues. This concludes that all teaching which claims that all christians can speak in tongues can not be truth.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Garee, you are a warrior, but even so, sometime the battle is not ours. ya know?

it is questionable if you are participating in the actual op or expressing your general dislike of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in general

agreeing with this type of language

And objective observation and cogent unbiased assessment.
The present day blubbering babblers are bogus no doubt about that.

and

The professors of sign gifts for today are to say the least of dubious reputation. Nutter carnival barkers and sinister false prophets for the most part. Doomed to hell the blatant decievers one and all.

I determine it is the latter

your friend's language leaves much to be desired. it amounts to abuse and not just disagreement

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Bible states clearly, that not all get/ got the gift of speaking in tongues. This concludes that all teaching which claims that all christians can speak in tongues can not be truth.

I don't teach that and I don't see it in scripture and I have not found it to be so

so what's your beef here?

nothing in your observance contradicts what I have posted

maybe get over it. the world is not going to change because you choose to dicker about it and folks who do pray/sing/prophesy in tongues are not going to stop and God will still be glorified in spite of all the opposition coming from believers who should actually know better

and to make it clear, yes there is abuse of the gifts just like there is abuse in everything else. there will always be those who purport to be what they are not and they indicate their false calling by the very abuse they exhibit. some have been called and sadly have gone off the deep end

none of that negates the truth. some people think they are Jesus. so?

 

[RickyZ]

dude, you have proven beyond doubt that you are the one with no understanding

why else would you consistently blaspheme what you do not understand?

you are mocking the Holy Spirit

I don't think that is his intent, he just doesn't understand how to discern the false from the real.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't think that is his intent, he just doesn't understand how to discern the false from the real.

you are too kind

have you read his posts in other threads that have tongues as the op?

thing is, he twists what is said often and more often, simply ignores what you respond with

no discernment needed there

some folks, because of their denial and attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil, are blinded to the truth

I am not his judge in that case, but it can and does happen

 

[GraceAndTruth]

It's a mystery to me how one can pray FOR something without KNOWING God's will in the petition.
Prayer should be the ACTS of our pleas.
A - adoration of His majesty
C - contrition - confession, admitting wrong thought, word or deed. And we all have those
T - thanksgiveing - be thankful for everything, each day brings at least a small blessing in some way
S - supplication - ask for increase of spiritual things like understanding, discernment, hospitality etc

And pray continually........each time we trip, each time we need to extend grace, each time we forget to extend grace

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It's a mystery to me how one can pray FOR something without KNOWING God's will in the petition.
Prayer should be the ACTS of our pleas.
A - adoration of His majesty
C - contrition - confession, admitting wrong thought, word or deed. And we all have those
T - thanksgiveing - be thankful for everything, each day brings at least a small blessing in some way
S - supplication - ask for increase of spiritual things like understanding, discernment, hospitality etc

And pray continually........each time we trip, each time we need to extend grace, each time we forget to extend grace

the Holy Spirit enables us to pray as the Bible goes so far as to state we do not know what we ought to pray for

He enlightens our understanding and I have had many prayers answered by praying in the spirit (Holy Spirit) and our spirits are quickened and we pray according to the will of God

HOWEVER, it should be noted the first will of God is understanding according to His word and we renew our minds BY His word so that we do not pray for things in our own will

all of that is actually IN scripture

if a person is not first grounded in the word, they can believe all sorts of things that are not true and even be deceived by evil spirits

deception is rampant if a person departs from the word and listens to things not contained in the word

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No way does anyone know what God's will is when a person is praying for a future event, like salvation for someone, or a healing from something, and etc.

What we might pray for the grace to accept God's will