Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!
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I went on the Bible that declares Faith is not a Work.. So i must keep believing and trusting to reamin saved I have to keep the Faith..
Romans 3: KJV
26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith."
Yes i know that calvinists declare that Faith is a Work.. But thats just not Biblical..
Romans 3: KJV
26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith."
Yes i know that calvinists declare that Faith is a Work.. But thats just not Biblical..
E
Then according to you faith is a work, out t is something you are doing by your own power in order to earn a reward, the reward being salvation.
The bible says faith is the work of God, so if you can lose faith God failed,, it is notyour responsibility to stay in faith, it is gods power to keep proving his faithfulness, if you lose faith, somehow God failed to do his job
The bible says faith is the work of God, so if you can lose faith God failed,, it is notyour responsibility to stay in faith, it is gods power to keep proving his faithfulness, if you lose faith, somehow God failed to do his job
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I just explained the Biblical definition of Works does not include Faith.. So how would i be putting forward the position that Faith is a Work???? Faith is not a Work.. The Bible tells me so..
As i said i am not a calvinist.. And really i don't want to see Penned's thread becoming a grinding calvinism debate.. There are more then a few calvinist threads for people to have all the debate they like on the matter.. If they so choose..
As i said i am not a calvinist.. And really i don't want to see Penned's thread becoming a grinding calvinism debate.. There are more then a few calvinist threads for people to have all the debate they like on the matter.. If they so choose..
E
If i lose faith in my boss, or people i have placed my faith in. One of two things has happnd
1. They have continually proved untrustowrthy, and no longer do i have the ability to trust them
2. I never trusted them to begin with, and they proved my lack of faith was correct (which is why i stopped claiming to have faith in them)
1. They have continually proved untrustowrthy, and no longer do i have the ability to trust them
2. I never trusted them to begin with, and they proved my lack of faith was correct (which is why i stopped claiming to have faith in them)
I agree with everything except a couple of points:
I believe Israel has a future, but i Disagree that its a separate destiny from the church. I believe its one people of God in eternity. The body of Christ, made up of Jews and Gentiles.
Not sure there will be a pre-trib rapture. I keep switching my eschatological views like my socks.
I believe Israel has a future, but i Disagree that its a separate destiny from the church. I believe its one people of God in eternity. The body of Christ, made up of Jews and Gentiles.
Not sure there will be a pre-trib rapture. I keep switching my eschatological views like my socks.
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19 of 20, my brother.
But, angels procreating with women? sorry, friend but.......
Daryl Hall & John Oates - I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)
Your op reminded me of an experience with a customer in the past.
During the course of the conversation, we spoke about Christ and that we were Christians.
I told Him I was regenerated almost 13 years ago and was continuing on the course Christ has set before me as He leads me by His Holy Spirit.
He looks me in the eyes intently and says "do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?"
I say "yes, of course!".
He shook my hand, called me his friend and gave me his church's' business card.
Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
But, angels procreating with women? sorry, friend but.......
Daryl Hall & John Oates - I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)
Your op reminded me of an experience with a customer in the past.
During the course of the conversation, we spoke about Christ and that we were Christians.
I told Him I was regenerated almost 13 years ago and was continuing on the course Christ has set before me as He leads me by His Holy Spirit.
He looks me in the eyes intently and says "do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?"
I say "yes, of course!".
He shook my hand, called me his friend and gave me his church's' business card.
Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
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It sure is a reformed doctrine. DERIVED from scripture, obviosuly.
But what the modern OSAS is, is just biting the dust from perseverance of the saints from the reformed doctrine.
Only difference is they threw repentance out the window, or redefined it to mean "believe and turning from unbelief to belief" or something ridicilous.
Or you got the "change of mind" definition, which is good, but it never crosses people's minds that if a mind is truly changed, so are the actions of said individual.
But what the modern OSAS is, is just biting the dust from perseverance of the saints from the reformed doctrine.
Only difference is they threw repentance out the window, or redefined it to mean "believe and turning from unbelief to belief" or something ridicilous.
Or you got the "change of mind" definition, which is good, but it never crosses people's minds that if a mind is truly changed, so are the actions of said individual.
Lot of disagreements from this list. My comments in blue.
Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.
11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.
Yes it did (Mt 21:23). Apostate Israel "fell away" during the great tribulation of 66-70 AD and the church (made up of Jews and Gentiles) replaced apostate Israel as God's witnesses on earth.
12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)
Like any literary work, the Bible uses a lot of metaphors and figures of speech. Knowing when they are in use is key to understanding. The best way is to see how they are used in the OT.
13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.
Yes. Both are in the spiritual realm where we will exist eternally.
14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.
Yes, those you mention in Gen 6 were angels procreating with human women. Any hybrid race was wiped out in the Flood. Those being spoken of in 2 Pet 3 and Jude were first century apostate Jews most of whom were wiped out in the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.
Literal? Real yes, but He is reigning now with us. He is not sitting on some earthly throne and there is no third temple to be built in Jerusalem. Christ Himself makes this abundantly clear in multiple passages. He destroyed the 2nd temple, He rebuilt it in 3 days. He sits at the right hand of the Father. He rules over the nations with a rod of iron. His kingdom came without observation. His kingdom is within us. He ushered in the new age, the age we are now in - the Messianic Age. This is all spiritual.
16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Yes, spiritually speaking.
17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION
18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.
19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.
Define Tribulation. Define rapture. Both were 1st century events.
20 Christ's return is imminent.
It was imminent. As He said, everything would come to that generation. The generation living when He made those comments. If you look at the literal words used in Mt 24, you will see that it was the PRESENCE (parousia) of Christ which was to return, as lightening. His return was real but it was spiritual. If you didn't know the signs, you would miss it. If you weren't watching, you would miss it. A literal physical return and reign in a temple nobody would miss. Christ makes clear many will "fall asleep" or not have enough oil in their lamps, etc. Others will not remain sober and miss it.
The apostles taught Christ's return was imminent to them in their days. Paul promised the Thessalonians rest from their torments. He didn't promise rest to people thousands of years later. In Revelation multiple times Christ was to come quickly. All the signs in Mt 24 were first century signs and all happened in the first century. There were no signs given applicable to our times. There is no long time lapse mentioned. In Mt 3, John says the ax was already at "laid at the root of the trees." The Baptist asks the religious leaders who came out of Jerusalem who told them to flee the wrath to come. This was the wrath that came within 1 generation of Christ's words, in 70 AD, almost exactly 40 years from when He said it.
There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.
So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.
11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.
Yes it did (Mt 21:23). Apostate Israel "fell away" during the great tribulation of 66-70 AD and the church (made up of Jews and Gentiles) replaced apostate Israel as God's witnesses on earth.
12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)
Like any literary work, the Bible uses a lot of metaphors and figures of speech. Knowing when they are in use is key to understanding. The best way is to see how they are used in the OT.
13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.
Yes. Both are in the spiritual realm where we will exist eternally.
14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.
Yes, those you mention in Gen 6 were angels procreating with human women. Any hybrid race was wiped out in the Flood. Those being spoken of in 2 Pet 3 and Jude were first century apostate Jews most of whom were wiped out in the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.
Literal? Real yes, but He is reigning now with us. He is not sitting on some earthly throne and there is no third temple to be built in Jerusalem. Christ Himself makes this abundantly clear in multiple passages. He destroyed the 2nd temple, He rebuilt it in 3 days. He sits at the right hand of the Father. He rules over the nations with a rod of iron. His kingdom came without observation. His kingdom is within us. He ushered in the new age, the age we are now in - the Messianic Age. This is all spiritual.
16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Yes, spiritually speaking.
17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION
18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.
19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.
Define Tribulation. Define rapture. Both were 1st century events.
20 Christ's return is imminent.
It was imminent. As He said, everything would come to that generation. The generation living when He made those comments. If you look at the literal words used in Mt 24, you will see that it was the PRESENCE (parousia) of Christ which was to return, as lightening. His return was real but it was spiritual. If you didn't know the signs, you would miss it. If you weren't watching, you would miss it. A literal physical return and reign in a temple nobody would miss. Christ makes clear many will "fall asleep" or not have enough oil in their lamps, etc. Others will not remain sober and miss it.
The apostles taught Christ's return was imminent to them in their days. Paul promised the Thessalonians rest from their torments. He didn't promise rest to people thousands of years later. In Revelation multiple times Christ was to come quickly. All the signs in Mt 24 were first century signs and all happened in the first century. There were no signs given applicable to our times. There is no long time lapse mentioned. In Mt 3, John says the ax was already at "laid at the root of the trees." The Baptist asks the religious leaders who came out of Jerusalem who told them to flee the wrath to come. This was the wrath that came within 1 generation of Christ's words, in 70 AD, almost exactly 40 years from when He said it.
There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.
So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
How do you eternal security people handle Heb 6? Do you take these words literally or do you allegorize them away?
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.
So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.
Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:
Yes like fingerprints we all have a different private interpretations, some close other much difference. While others deny the grace that could of paid the full wage of their sin
1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.
Agree
2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.
Agree
3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.
Difference
4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.
Agree
5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )
Agree
Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:
6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )
Difference
7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.
Agree
8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )
Agree
9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.
Agree
10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.
Agree
Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.
11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.
Difference
12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)
Difference
13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.
Difference
14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.
Difference
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.
Difference
16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Agree
17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION
Difference
18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.
Difference( Still gifts no new revelations through as tongue)
19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.
Difference
20 Christ's return is imminent.
Agree
So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
Just another brick in the wall LOL
So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.
Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:
Yes like fingerprints we all have a different private interpretations, some close other much difference. While others deny the grace that could of paid the full wage of their sin
1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.
Agree
2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.
Agree
3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.
Difference
4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.
Agree
5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )
Agree
Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:
6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )
Difference
7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.
Agree
8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )
Agree
9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.
Agree
10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.
Agree
Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.
11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.
Difference
12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)
Difference
13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.
Difference
14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.
Difference
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.
Difference
16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Agree
17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION
Difference
18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.
Difference( Still gifts no new revelations through as tongue)
19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.
Difference
20 Christ's return is imminent.
Agree
So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
Just another brick in the wall LOL
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