Are there two gospels or ONE?
- Thread starter Hevosmies
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So what you're saying (coz I think you've said you're pre-trib) is that you believe there are TWO "Raptures," right?
I don't believe that.
I believe the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" not to all other saints of all other time periods (not to OT saints [Dan12:13, Matt8:11, etc], not to Trib saints [Rev20:4], not to MK saints ["rapture" has taken place WELL-BEFORE MK children are even BORN in the MK time period]).
Revelation 19 only states that the "MARRIAGE" itself HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE (aorist) in Heaven... it does NOT ALSO state that "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE [NO aorist about THAT here!] in Heaven.
It merely [clearly] states that the "INVITING" HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE [aorist] but that took place ON THE EARTH (WHILE "the Church which is His body" has been up in Heaven "WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting 'UNION' and 'IDENTIFICATION'] HIM" [via the Rapture, well-before Rev19 point in time, that is, His "RETURN" to the earth as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, where thereafter the Gospels pick up the next scene (in the SEQUENCE/CHRONOLOGY), in their descriptions of what takes place there upon His "RETURN" to the earth: Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding," it says, THEN the meal!; Lk19:12,15,17,19 also (tho not "wedding supper" context; and its parallels); Matt22:9-14 (pertaining to the "INVITED GUESTS [PLURAL]"; Matt25:1-13,10 "[the 5 virgins/PLURAL] go in WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] HIM (NOT "G4862 -UNION"!! He does NOT *MARRY* FIVE VIRGINS! Hello!)--there is NO "BRIDE [SINGULAR]" mentioned in these contexts!])
I don't believe that.
I believe the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" not to all other saints of all other time periods (not to OT saints [Dan12:13, Matt8:11, etc], not to Trib saints [Rev20:4], not to MK saints ["rapture" has taken place WELL-BEFORE MK children are even BORN in the MK time period]).
Revelation 19 only states that the "MARRIAGE" itself HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE (aorist) in Heaven... it does NOT ALSO state that "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE [NO aorist about THAT here!] in Heaven.
It merely [clearly] states that the "INVITING" HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE [aorist] but that took place ON THE EARTH (WHILE "the Church which is His body" has been up in Heaven "WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting 'UNION' and 'IDENTIFICATION'] HIM" [via the Rapture, well-before Rev19 point in time, that is, His "RETURN" to the earth as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, where thereafter the Gospels pick up the next scene (in the SEQUENCE/CHRONOLOGY), in their descriptions of what takes place there upon His "RETURN" to the earth: Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding," it says, THEN the meal!; Lk19:12,15,17,19 also (tho not "wedding supper" context; and its parallels); Matt22:9-14 (pertaining to the "INVITED GUESTS [PLURAL]"; Matt25:1-13,10 "[the 5 virgins/PLURAL] go in WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] HIM (NOT "G4862 -UNION"!! He does NOT *MARRY* FIVE VIRGINS! Hello!)--there is NO "BRIDE [SINGULAR]" mentioned in these contexts!])
This is bogus they are one and the same:
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
USED INTERCHANGEABLY!
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
USED INTERCHANGEABLY!
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Fine. But Abraham was not also told to go around telling everyone that "the kingdom is very soon to commence!"
That's one huge distinction I'm talking about (and that "dispensationalists" are talking about).
And, by the way, too bad for Adam? Enoch? Methusaleh? Noah? I don't think you think that.
No one is saying that OT saints were not saved.
(nor that "faith" was not required)
That's one huge distinction I'm talking about (and that "dispensationalists" are talking about).
And, by the way, too bad for Adam? Enoch? Methusaleh? Noah? I don't think you think that.
No one is saying that OT saints were not saved.
(nor that "faith" was not required)
When Jesus returns to the earth and sits on the throne of His glory and has all the nations gathered before Him, He tells the Sheep (of the nations [plural]), "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, inherit the kingdom [HAVING BEEN] PREPARED for you FROM [apo - G575] THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD"... [this parallels the "BLESSED" passages I've listed re: the earthly MK]
Do you see any distinction between "[HAVING BEEN] PREPARED [for you (Sheep of the nations, PLURAL)] FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" to that of Jesus' words in your verse which states, "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you...". Any difference whatsoever?
[by the way, "FROM [G575 - apo] the foundation of the world" is distinct from what is said of others elsewhere, "BEFORE [G4253 - pro] the foundation of the world"]
Do you see any distinction between "[HAVING BEEN] PREPARED [for you (Sheep of the nations, PLURAL)] FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" to that of Jesus' words in your verse which states, "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you...". Any difference whatsoever?
[by the way, "FROM [G575 - apo] the foundation of the world" is distinct from what is said of others elsewhere, "BEFORE [G4253 - pro] the foundation of the world"]
I’m not saying that he wouldn’t have, but only through Paul’s revelation...I suppose any of the twelve could have in the latter parts, after the stoning of Stephen, but only according to the grace message of Paul.....Do we have any records of Peters preaching to the gentile? Obviously I’m not speaking of Matthew 28
"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (as ALREADY-WED to the "BRIDE-WIFE [SINGULAR]" in Heaven, Rev19:7 [NOT Rev19:9! and its "plurals"! which involves His "RETURNING" to the earth first] )… THEN the meal! (on the earth, commencing upon His "RETURN" [already-wed!])
Sounds as if you have fallen for some form of Jewish fables.
Jesus was attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2, not the intimate "union" ['MARRIAGE' itself] of the couple (which did not involve all the "guests"!)
)… THEN the meal! (on the earth, commencing upon His "RETURN" [already-wed!])Sounds as if you have fallen for some form of Jewish fables.
Jesus was attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2, not the intimate "union" ['MARRIAGE' itself] of the couple (which did not involve all the "guests"!)
One question that one can ask is, "do you believe that, once the Rapture of the Church which is His body takes place, anyone else ever comes to faith [or, is/can be "saved," however you want to word it] [thereafter]?" I say yes, that Scripture speaks of this (and pertains to the subject of this thread).
Or, on the other hand, do you believe that once our Rapture takes place, ALL is completed (no further ppl coming to faith/salvation)?
Or, on the other hand, do you believe that once our Rapture takes place, ALL is completed (no further ppl coming to faith/salvation)?
"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (as ALREADY-WED to the "BRIDE-WIFE [SINGULAR]" in Heaven, Rev19:7 [NOT Rev19:9! and its "plurals"! which involves His "RETURNING" to the earth first] )… THEN the meal! (on the earth, commencing upon His "RETURN" [already-wed!])
Sounds as if you have fallen for some form of Jewish fables.
Jesus was attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2, not the intimate "union" ['MARRIAGE' itself] of the couple (which did not involve all the "guests"!)
)… THEN the meal! (on the earth, commencing upon His "RETURN" [already-wed!])Sounds as if you have fallen for some form of Jewish fables.
Jesus was attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2, not the intimate "union" ['MARRIAGE' itself] of the couple (which did not involve all the "guests"!)
I checked it before i responded.
"Wedding festivities"
But you got your own version i am sure
I don't believe "[my] own version" has anything to do with it, especially if you look at Matthew 22:2-7, where verse 2 has the same plural word (slightly different form), of G1062... yet is speaking of the time period prior to the 70ad events spelled out in verse 7.
[recall the "SEQUENCE" issue I've spelled out before, between verse 7's 70ad events, and verse 8's FURTHER (thereafter) "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" which correlates [SEQUENTIALLY] with [the LATER 95ad] Rev1:1/7:3 [4:1 for TIMING]…so that 8-14 refers to that future specific limited time period, not "presently"/"this present [/evil] age [singular]"--they are being INVITED to a FEAST/SUPPER (NOT "the MARRIAGE" itself!--2Cor11:2, etc; to do "G3326 -meta - ACCOMPANY"... NOT "G4862 - syn - UNION"!)]
[recall the "SEQUENCE" issue I've spelled out before, between verse 7's 70ad events, and verse 8's FURTHER (thereafter) "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" which correlates [SEQUENTIALLY] with [the LATER 95ad] Rev1:1/7:3 [4:1 for TIMING]…so that 8-14 refers to that future specific limited time period, not "presently"/"this present [/evil] age [singular]"--they are being INVITED to a FEAST/SUPPER (NOT "the MARRIAGE" itself!--2Cor11:2, etc; to do "G3326 -meta - ACCOMPANY"... NOT "G4862 - syn - UNION"!)]
^ My point being, one should examine the CONTEXT where used.
Jesus and many guests were attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2 (after the couple was already-wed--the "guests" were not present at their "union" but at the "wedding feast"... vv8-9 uses the term "governor of the feast" and v9 "ruler of the feast").
Jesus and many guests were attending a "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" in John 2 (after the couple was already-wed--the "guests" were not present at their "union" but at the "wedding feast"... vv8-9 uses the term "governor of the feast" and v9 "ruler of the feast").