Does entering into Jesus' rest mean we're to give up the Sabbath day? Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law of God?

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Oftentimes I hear people sharing the gospel and they talk to people about how all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (I.e., we’ve all transgressed the law), and we need to have faith in Christ’s work (sinless life, shed blood, death (propitiatiary sacrifice), burial, and resurrection) to receive His righteousness to be made right with God, to have our sins forgiven through His sacrifice, which is all true, but that law that we’ve all transgressed (that was our schoolmaster), if we’re no longer under it (some would say we are but it seems to me we’re not, that we’re under grace now) then when we say we don’t want to continue sinning because we’ve turned to Christ (repenting of sin), if we sin now unintentionally, what law are we breaking? This is what I wonder about ceremonial law, God’s moral law, etc., because if I was once a thief but don’t steal anymore because I love God, are we not still under the law of Christ which is love God and others? So stealing would be something not to do because it’s a moral law? Because it’s wrapped up in love thy neighbour, and so that commandment still applies. So it seems to me that the Sabbatarian argument comes down to whether God’s command to love Him with all we are includes keeping the Sabbath. Others can speculate about future blue laws and read it as a mark, but the question is whether Sabbath-keeping would be included in “love the Lord....” else why would you not continue to steal and dishonour mother and father, etc.? This is an honest question I have, again I’m not SDA thanks

 

[idkMyName]

Oftentimes I hear people sharing the gospel and they talk to people about how all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (I.e., we’ve all transgressed the law), and we need to have faith in Christ’s work (sinless life, shed blood, death (propitiatiary sacrifice), burial, and resurrection) to receive His righteousness to be made right with God, to have our sins forgiven through His sacrifice, which is all true, but that law that we’ve all transgressed (that was our schoolmaster), if we’re no longer under it (some would say we are but it seems to me we’re not, that we’re under grace now) then when we say we don’t want to continue sinning because we’ve turned to Christ (repenting of sin), if we sin now unintentionally, what law are we breaking? This is what I wonder about ceremonial law, God’s moral law, etc., because if I was once a thief but don’t steal anymore because I love God, are we not still under the law of Christ which is love God and others? So stealing would be something not do to because it’s a moral law? Because it’s wrapped up in love thy neighbour, and so that commandment still applies. So it seems to me that the Sabbatarian argument comes down to whether God’s command to love Him with all we are includes keeping the Sabbath. Others can speculate about future blue laws and read it as a mark, but the question is whether Sabbath-keeping would be included in “love the Lord....” else why would you not continue to steal and dishonour mother and father, etc.? This is an honest question I have, again I’m not SDA thanks

I think it's important to NOT to understand the age of grace as lawless.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The end of the law, does not mean the end of instruction or commands, but it is speaking of the Law of Moses, not laws in general. We have commandments as Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments" Jn 14:15

So in that sense, it is the law of Christ, though it is a law for our benefit and is sustained by Grace, the blood of Christ that continues to cleans us.

1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

This law is not made up of rituals, but is a spiritual law, that brings love to ourselves and others

 

[Locutus]

So it seems to me that the Sabbatarian argument comes down to whether God’s command to love Him with all we are includes keeping the Sabbath. Others can speculate about future blue laws and read it as a mark, but the question is whether Sabbath-keeping would be included in “love the Lord....” else why would you not continue to steal and dishonour mother and father, etc.? This is an honest question I have, again I’m not SDA thanks

How does sabbath keeping equate to loving God when as shown in Exodus it was a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel while that covenant was still standing?

"between Me and the sons of Israel it is a sign"

Maybe you could love God using sign language seeing as the arguments presented so far have fallen on deaf ears

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

How does sabbath keeping equate to loving God when as shown in Exodus it was a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel while that covenant was still standing?

"between Me and the sons of Israel it is a sign"

Maybe you could love God using sign language seeing as the arguments presented so far have fallen on deaf ears View attachment 192587

I appreciate the first part of your comment... So Sunday should neither be kept as a Sabbath day (as distinct from any other day), unless one feels they want to but we’re in no way obliged, is what it seems to me, and if someone does take one day a week every week for God and not work then they’re free to but it’s not commanded and it’s not a salvivic thing as we’ve entered into the rest of Christ’s finished work and the new covanent, it what it seems to me... I’m still studying, I appreciate what patience you can muster, thanks 🙂 Also thank you to everyone else who has contributed edifying replies to my OP. 🙂

 

[JaumeJ]

Keeping sabbath and the Law with the mindset that doing so plays a part in our salvation is Works salvation..

Äpparently tisis your law, I have not "mind set" as you call it. You claim to believe the New Testament, do I not have the permission from Paul to observe any day I will as long as my conscience is clear in the sight of god?

Why do you day becase I wish to do and not just say the Word, I am under the law. I obey the law in my soul, while I am credited by my Father to be perfect by the Blood of His Passover Lamb. Do you obey in your soul? Do youhave the privilege of God's not holding the guilt of your sin against you? iF SO ÑYOU ARE the same as I ......Allow me to accept God's gift to spent the Seventh Day with Him, for the eternal Seventh day comes, and I look to be with Him so.

Happy New Year, albeit goy, and all blessings in Yeshua.

 

[Grandpa]

Oftentimes I hear people sharing the gospel and they talk to people about how all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (I.e., we’ve all transgressed the law), and we need to have faith in Christ’s work (sinless life, shed blood, death (propitiatiary sacrifice), burial, and resurrection) to receive His righteousness to be made right with God, to have our sins forgiven through His sacrifice, which is all true, but that law that we’ve all transgressed (that was our schoolmaster), if we’re no longer under it (some would say we are but it seems to me we’re not, that we’re under grace now) then when we say we don’t want to continue sinning because we’ve turned to Christ (repenting of sin), if we sin now unintentionally, what law are we breaking? This is what I wonder about ceremonial law, God’s moral law, etc., because if I was once a thief but don’t steal anymore because I love God, are we not still under the law of Christ which is love God and others? So stealing would be something not to do because it’s a moral law? Because it’s wrapped up in love thy neighbour, and so that commandment still applies. So it seems to me that the Sabbatarian argument comes down to whether God’s command to love Him with all we are includes keeping the Sabbath. Others can speculate about future blue laws and read it as a mark, but the question is whether Sabbath-keeping would be included in “love the Lord....” else why would you not continue to steal and dishonour mother and father, etc.? This is an honest question I have, again I’m not SDA thanks

"Keeping a Sabbath" is working at the law. There is no way around that. The ONLY reason to try and "keep" a Saturday sabbath is because the law says so.

But the Lord Jesus Christ gives us Rest from our work at the law. So if YOU decide to go back to your work at the law then you REJECT Christ and what He has done.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


If a person says they work at the law because they love God then they are trying to be justified by that law.

What does God say?

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

 

[Adstar]

Oftentimes I hear people sharing the gospel and they talk to people about how all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (I.e., we’ve all transgressed the law), and we need to have faith in Christ’s work (sinless life, shed blood, death (propitiatiary sacrifice), burial, and resurrection) to receive His righteousness to be made right with God, to have our sins forgiven through His sacrifice, which is all true, but that law that we’ve all transgressed (that was our schoolmaster), if we’re no longer under it (some would say we are but it seems to me we’re not, that we’re under grace now) then when we say we don’t want to continue sinning because we’ve turned to Christ (repenting of sin), if we sin now unintentionally, what law are we breaking? This is what I wonder about ceremonial law, God’s moral law, etc., because if I was once a thief but don’t steal anymore because I love God, are we not still under the law of Christ which is love God and others? So stealing would be something not to do because it’s a moral law? Because it’s wrapped up in love thy neighbour, and so that commandment still applies. So it seems to me that the Sabbatarian argument comes down to whether God’s command to love Him with all we are includes keeping the Sabbath. Others can speculate about future blue laws and read it as a mark, but the question is whether Sabbath-keeping would be included in “love the Lord....” else why would you not continue to steal and dishonour mother and father, etc.? This is an honest question I have, again I’m not SDA thanks

The Law is still good and it is still good to do ones best to do the law... BUT!!! A persons eternal status with God is NOT determined by ones level of success or failure to do the Law..

So the Law is still active.. What God wants us to do we should do and what God wants us to avoid we should strive to avoid.. BUT again our performance in doing good and avoiding doing evil is not what determines our eternal outcome..

The Law is one of the primary convicting tools Christians use to convince others of their need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Bringing to the mind of people that they have sinned against the perfect Law of God motivates them to accept the solution God has made to see their transgressions against His will Atoned for..

I'm glad your not SDA

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

The Law is still good and it is still good to do ones best to do the law... BUT!!! A persons eternal status with God is NOT determined by ones level of success or failure to do the Law..

So the Law is still active.. What God wants us to do we should do and what God wants us to avoid we should strive to avoid.. BUT again our performance in doing good and avoiding doing evil is not what determines our eternal outcome..

The Law is one of the primary convicting tools Christians use to convince others of their need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Bringing to the mind of people that they have sinned against the perfect Law of God motivates them to accept the solution God has made to see their transgressions against His will Atoned for..

I'm glad your not SDA

Yes but then once they’ve understood they’re transgressors and in need of the Savior, you still feel they’ should keep every Old Testament law as best they can? But not for their salvation, but to please God? ...How do you answer those who say that the OT law was a covenant (sign) between God and the sons of Israel (as opposed to the gentile nations),? Would you say because we’re grafted in both covenants apply to us today? Just wondering how you believe, thanks 🙂

 

[Adstar]

Adstar said:
Keeping sabbath and the Law with the mindset that doing so plays a part in our salvation is Works salvation..

Äpparently tisis your law, I have not "mind set" as you call it. You claim to believe the New Testament, do I not have the permission from Paul to observe any day I will as long as my conscience is clear in the sight of god?

Why are you making this discussion personal? About you? Did i say that you Jaumel have this mindset?

NO i have NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING... Don't you dare put words into my mouth that i have never uttered.. Lying about what others have said to tarnish their credibility in the minds of others during a discussion between two supposed brethren is being a false accuser of the brethren... That's a very serious thing to be doing as a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ.. DON'T DO IT..

Why do you day becase I wish to do and not just say the Word, I am under the law

.

When did i say that You JaumeJ because you want to do something like observe sabbath that you are under the law?

Please quote where i made this personal accusation against you Jaumej.. If you cannot do this then i expect a public acknowledgement of your false slander against me...

It's up to you, we will see how much puffed up religious pride you have or if you are meek?

I obey the law in my soul, while I am credited by my Father to be perfect by the Blood of His Passover Lamb. Do you obey in your soul?

I believe ALL the expressed with of God as revealed in scripture in regard for His will for people to do and not to do is right and good.. So it can be said that i agree with the law that it is good.. But can i obey the will of God to the letter 100% ... !00% of the time.. NO.. and you cannot do it either Jaumej.. Now if you believe you can be in 100% obeyance to the Message of God come out and make the claim.. If not then don't try and condemn others for failing to obey Gods will 100% and 100% of the time..

Do youhave the privilege of God's not holding the guilt of your sin against you?

Yes.. Because i am 100% confident in the sufficency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ which he secured for the forgivenness of all m y sins on the cross..

iF SO ÑYOU ARE the same as I ......Allow me to accept God's gift to spent the Seventh Day with Him, for the eternal Seventh day comes, and I look to be with Him so.

Again you are putting forward that i am some kind of Supreme Dictator out to persecute you for believing that the Seventh Day is the sabbath and doing stuff on that day to acknowledge that day... I assure everyone reading this post i am not stalking Jaumej and personally threatening him for engaging in any religious practice on the 7th day of the week.. This is nothing put projecting evil intent upon me as a form of public character assassination..

Happy New Year, albeit goy, and all blessings in Yeshua.

GOY.... Calling me GOY,, a derogatory Jewish term for a dirty inferior gentile??? A supposed brother in Jesus is willing to verbally spit upon a fellow believer in the LORD Jesus Christ buy using a derogatory term like GOY!!!!!

Let me turn the cheek and my LORD Jesus instructed me and await your next reply and see if Gods Holy Spirit has anything to say to your conscience in the mean while..

PS: The irony of this is that i believe that the weekly Biblical Sabbath is on the Seventh Day .. I believe the Bible when it declares that the weekly sabbath starts of Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset.. I am not a supporter of the sunday sabbath doctrine...

 

[Adstar]

Yes but then once they’ve understood they’re transgressors and in need of the Savior, you still feel they’ should keep every Old Testament law as best they can?

If a persons conscience if guided by the Holy Spirit and they are moved to keep a day then so be it.. If they are not convicted to keep a day the so be it.. Let each person be fully convinced about what they do and do not do.. And again the desire to do what is good and avoid what is bad is a form of righteousness called righteous in the spirit..

But not for their salvation, but to please God?

I totally agree.. When we believe the Law is good and correct and desire to do it out of love for the truth of God then God approves of that 100% .. But once a person starts to think in their mind that law keeping plays a part in their being saved then God hates that....

...How do you answer those who say that the OT law was a covenant (sign) between God and the sons of Israel

I don't resist people who tell me that.. Because the OT covenant was a contract between God and the Hebrew People.. But contained within those laws where moral laws that we should acknowledge as good and true and we should strive to do them or avoid doing them depending on what God declared.. So thou shalt not steal is a good moral law and we should do our best to resist the temptation to steal from people.. And if we have been guilty of stealing something we should acknowledge our transgression to God and thank Him for the Atonement He secured for us that covers our transgression..

(as opposed to the gentile nations),? Would you say because we’re grafted in both covenants apply to us today? Just wondering how you believe, thanks 🙂

Jesus removed the curse of the LAW...

Now i am not saying that the LAW is a curse...

But the OT covenant attached a Curse to the LAW that made Law breaking punishable by Death...

Deuteronomy 28: KJV The book of the LAW..
58 "If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; {59} Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. {60} Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. {61} Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. {62} And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God."

Critical stipulation in the OT covenant LAW.. they MUST DO ALL the words of this law that are written in this book.. Fail one,,, Just One of the laws just ONCE.. the the curse will be upon them...

Jesus lifts the curse of the Law off all those who believe Him and trust 100% in the atonement He secured for their redemption..

 

[gb9]

Yes but then once they’ve understood they’re transgressors and in need of the Savior, you still feel they’ should keep every Old Testament law as best they can? But not for their salvation, but to please God? ...How do you answer those who say that the OT law was a covenant (sign) between God and the sons of Israel (as opposed to the gentile nations),? Would you say because we’re grafted in both covenants apply to us today? Just wondering how you believe, thanks 🙂

all this is just a useless merry go round.

the only thing one has to do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

all this is just a useless merry go round.

the only thing one has to do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

What about repentance? Luke 13:3-5 ...I also wonder about enduring to the end and finishing the race but I’ll save that for another thread, thanks 🙂 This thread here wasn’t so much to do with salvation but whether the Sabbath was abolished, thanks 🙂

 

[gb9]

What about repentance? Luke 13:3-5 ...I also wonder about enduring to the end and finishing the race but I’ll save that for another thread, thanks 🙂 This thread here wasn’t so much to do with salvation but whether the Sabbath was abolished, thanks 🙂

Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

Keeping sabbath and the Law with the mindset that doing so plays a part in our salvation is Works salvation..

You have associated "keeping the law" with me because I observe the Seventh Day because it is a gift, not some kind of weekly burden. I worship God every day ad night, again do not play coy.....you associagted me with being under the law……….because you say observing the Sabbath is beingunder the law or need to do for salvation.

I am not accusing you of anything, the your posts speak for themselves.

Oh, yes, the law is yet in effect, as I have posted many times but as taught by Jesus Christ, as I have posted many times.

Do not come back to m or to all here who believe the commandments are part of the laws of love, to be observed for this is simply untrue.

The Father places disobedience with idol worship……..do not hint at not obeying Gd ever….it is wrong.

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Sabbath keeping has nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

I say wans’t so much because some mentioned SDA and blue law beliefs. My OP wasn’t of salvivic concern, but whether it was abolished. Thanks again 🙂

 

[newton3003]

Hi, I'm studying to shew myself approved unto God and I'm not certain as to whether the rest that still "remaineth therefore...to the people of God" (Heb. 4:9)--written to the Hebrews who were keeping the Sabbath day--was meant to say that they would have "another" rest as in "in addition" ("For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day" - Heb. 4:8) or "another" as in "a different."

***Some writers at Biblehub.com have suggested that the “rest” in Hebrews 4:8 is one that is alluded to in Psalms 95; that is a total rest that those who love God would experience, from enemies and other trials, tribulations and tempests. That is, those who love God would experience peace amongst eachother. There is nothing to suggest that the “rest” refers to ‘resting in peace’ after our time on earth, in case some may be so inclined to think.

This “rest” would come as a result of, in loving God, not yielding to temptations that would take us off the path of righteousness, and instead be the result of fulfilling the first and second great commandments of Jesus.

I would add that the Sabbath rest has nothing to do with the “rest” described above, except to the extent people use the Sabbath to draw closer to God. The Sabbath rest is a function of what people make of it.

It is probable that the Sabbath rest is in addition to the “rest” in Hebrews 4:8, for in loving God we abide by what He wants. Some might argue that they don’t have to abide by the Sabbath in the Old Law, since the Old Law was fulfilled by Jesus. But then, what did Jesus mean in his first commandment, that we love God with all our heart, soul and mind?

 

[JaumeJ]

Why are you making this discussion personal? About you? Did i say that you Jaumel have this mindset?

NO i have NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING... Don't you dare put words into my mouth that i have never uttered.. Lying about what others have said to tarnish their credibility in the minds of others during a discussion between two supposed brethren is being a false accuser of the brethren... That's a very serious thing to be doing as a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ.. DON'T DO IT..



When did i say that You JaumeJ because you want to do something like observe sabbath that you are under the law?

Please quote where i made this personal accusation against you Jaumej.. If you cannot do this then i expect a public acknowledgement of your false slander against me...

It's up to you, we will see how much puffed up religious pride you have or if you are meek?



I believe ALL the expressed with of God as revealed in scripture in regard for His will for people to do and not to do is right and good.. So it can be said that i agree with the law that it is good.. But can i obey the will of God to the letter 100% ... !00% of the time.. NO.. and you cannot do it either Jaumej.. Now if you believe you can be in 100% obeyance to the Message of God come out and make the claim.. If not then don't try and condemn others for failing to obey Gods will 100% and 100% of the time..



Yes.. Because i am 100% confident in the sufficency of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ which he secured for the forgivenness of all m y sins on the cross..



Again you are putting forward that i am some kind of Supreme Dictator out to persecute you for believing that the Seventh Day is the sabbath and doing stuff on that day to acknowledge that day... I assure everyone reading this post i am not stalking Jaumej and personally threatening him for engaging in any religious practice on the 7th day of the week.. This is nothing put projecting evil intent upon me as a form of public character assassination..



GOY.... Calling me GOY,, a derogatory Jewish term for a dirty inferior gentile??? A supposed brother in Jesus is willing to verbally spit upon a fellow believer in the LORD Jesus Christ buy using a derogatory term like GOY!!!!!

Let me turn the cheek and my LORD Jesus instructed me and await your next reply and see if Gods Holy Spirit has anything to say to your conscience in the mean while..

PS: The irony of this is that i believe that the weekly Biblical Sabbath is on the Seventh Day .. I believe the Bible when it declares that the weekly sabbath starts of Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset.. I am not a supporter of the sunday sabbath doctrine...

Again, do not associate this "mindset" of yours on me...…..is mindset a new doctrine or dogma for the Body of Yeshua? Just do not associate that wit me, it has been done over and over with implying I am under the law which is in effect saying my repetence and faith in Jesus Christ is void……..do not do this to me or anyone else who believe obedience is our due and not some kind of works. Do not do it.

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Again, do not associate this "mindset" of yours on me...…..is mindset a new doctrine or dogma for the Body of Yeshua? Just do not associate that wit me, it has been done over and over with implying I am under the law which is in effect saying my repetence and faith in Jesus Christ is void……..do not do this to me or anyone else who believe obedience is our due and not some kind of works. Do not do it.

I don’t understand how there’s such misunderstanding... Isn’t it basically you believe NT believes are to keep the whole law but not to be saved but by commandment (saved by Jesus) and the other believes that we don’t have to do anything but the “moral law,” or law of Christ (which includes only some of the OT law but not the ceremonial things) but that you’re both trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation?

 

[gb9]

I say wans’t so much because some mentioned SDA and blue law beliefs. My OP wasn’t of salvivic concern, but whether it was abolished. Thanks again 🙂

it is an irrelevant question . gentiles never had the Law, a there is not one single N. T. command to keep the Sabbath.

your question assumes an yes answer.

a answer of " it does not matter , we are saved by faith in Christ " is the proper answer.

 

[Adstar]

What about repentance? Luke 13:3-5

Luke 13: KJV
1 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilæans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. {2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilæans were sinners above all the Galilæans, because they suffered such things? {3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. {4} Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? {5} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Repentance is a change in mind... If one changes their mind and acknowledges that their sin is a transgression against the will of God and they have no resistance to the teachings of Jesus, the WORD of GOD. Then they are repentant of all their sins.. Now some people preach that repentance is only achieved when one ceases to sin.. That if you have not achieved a state of living a sinless life then you have not repented and thus are still under condemnation.. Flee people who preach such a thing..

...I also wonder about enduring to the end and finishing the race but I’ll save that for another thread, thanks 🙂

We are to endure in Belief in the Message of God and endure in Trusting ( having faith ) that the Atonement of Jesus has secured for us eternal life with God..

This thread here wasn’t so much to do with salvation but whether the Sabbath was abolished, thanks 🙂

True.. But when we get people asking questions like you are asking it's a delight to respond to someone who is genuinely asking questions with a desire to grow in the knowledge of salvation..