Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[Endoscopy]

All of Gods Laws include Love. The problem is that there is no good in you to obey Gods Laws.

So how can you possibly obey a Good God when you don't have the ability?

That's the point. You can't. You need Supernatural Help. You need to come to Christ and receive His Gift.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

All of God's laws do not include love. There are 613 laws scattered through the Torah. They are divided into many categories. There are the dos and don't. In both there are several divisions. All, men, women, in Israel only, etc. Here they are.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Grandpa]

You ignore what Jesus said and did in your list.
He stated the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.
1. Breaking the law is sin.
2. Breaking the least of the laws is as if you broke them all.
3. The wages of sin is death.
4. Jesus was the unblemished Lamb of God who made the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
5. God's free gift of grace through faith in Jesus removes the penalty of the law.
6. Woe to those who reject that grace.

I didn't ignore anything.

The Law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.

But the Law has a purpose. And once it fulfills its purpose it is over.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Is this against what Jesus says???

No, of course not. The Lord says the same thing just in a more simple and mysterious way right here;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[Grandpa]

All of God's laws do not include love. There are 613 laws scattered through the Torah. They are divided into many categories. There are the dos and don't. In both there are several divisions. All, men, women, in Israel only, etc. Here they are.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Some people don't understand the law. They all think they do.

1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Charity should be Love, of course. One of my few complaints/disagreements with the KJV... But charity is a form of love if you really think about it.

 

[Blik]

Can you tell me where commiting one sin is ok? Where breaking any part of the law is pleasing to the lord? Where even the smallest of all sins we can think of, If we break it, God will say, thats ok, You are doing great keep on trying?

I do not manage to try to keep Gods law. I CAN’T KEEP GODS LAW, and I am not foolish enough to go around trying to tell everyone I can!

So instead of trying to do what I CAN NOT DO. I do what Jesus said, Love starting with God above all, Then my neighbor. And follow this by doing what Paul said, Seek after the things of the spirit. And in doing so. I will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

You want to follow an unkeepable law. Good luck man,

Me? I will continue to follow God using his example. And knowing when I fail (And I will) I can come to my Abba Father not in fear of judgment, But as a father who loves me, who will send me back out with forgiveness and mercy and make me want to follow him even more.

I cannot understand how your mind is working. You say you are trying to keep God's law and at the same time in the same post saying not to keep God's law giving the reason for this that when we try we still need forgiveness from Christ (I assume you mean that) for our misses.

You can't sit on the fence all your life, you have to decide to either learn God's laws and live by them or do the sit in a corner saying I love, I love as you suggest doing.

Our entire church body are agreeing with you to not even try to obey, there is no discipline so God is letting the church say love, love, love with no discipline enough to follow through with love actions. So the church is weak and not leading lives or our country. James explained you to the world, James said he could show you the love by his actions, love without it is dead.

 

[Blik]

You ignore what Jesus said and did in your list.
He stated the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.
1. Breaking the law is sin.
2. Breaking the least of the laws is as if you broke them all.
3. The wages of sin is death.
4. Jesus was the unblemished Lamb of God who made the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
5. God's free gift of grace through faith in Jesus removes the penalty of the law.
6. Woe to those who reject that grace.

And woe to those who go to Christ for forgiveness without repenting of their sins but say I can't obey them all so I won't try to obey any.

 

[Endoscopy]

I didn't ignore anything.

The Law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear.

But the Law has a purpose. And once it fulfills its purpose it is over.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto loo Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Is this against what Jesus says???

No, of course not. The Lord says the same thing just in a more simple and mysterious way right here;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Still trying to say the law will at some point goes away. The point of that scripture is when we accept God's gift of grace through faith in Jesus we are no longer condemned by the law but those who reject him will be judged by the law. A prophecy says there will be those at judgement will cry out for a mountain to fall on them rather than face the judgement of God!

 

[Endoscopy]

And woe to those who go to Christ for forgiveness without repenting of their sins but say I can't obey them all so I won't try to obey any.

There is the statement of Jesus saying at judgement time go away I never knew you. They were pointing at works not grace! We are brought to asking fo for forgiveness through reprinting of our sins and thus receive grace. That repentance is first in order to even think about getting the free gift of grace.

 

[Endoscopy]

Too many think they have to earn grace with their actions thus do works thinking that will save them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I cannot understand how your mind is working. You say you are trying to keep God's law and at the same time in the same post saying not to keep God's law giving the reason for this that when we try we still need forgiveness from Christ (I assume you mean that) for our misses.

I am not trying to keep Gods law. I would be a fool for trying to keep somethnign i can not keep.

What I am doing is doing what the law can not possibly make me do. And earning what it takes to be a child of God who walks ater the spirit. As the bible says. When you do this, By practice you will not brea the law

You can't sit on the fence all your life, you have to decide to either learn God's laws and live by them or do the sit in a corner saying I love, I love as you suggest doing.

Or you could sit there and try to learn Gods law. And continue to fail to do it. Then lie to yourself and say your a good righteous persn because you have learned Gods law.

Our entire church body are agreeing with you to not even try to obey, there is no discipline so God is letting the church say love, love, love with no discipline enough to follow through with love actions. So the church is weak and not leading lives or our country. James explained you to the world, James said he could show you the love by his actions, love without it is dead.

As usual, You lawyers want to try to push a law you can not possibly keep. and in doing so. Make yourself slaves of self righteousness. Instead of teachng yourselves and others what the law can not possibly do. Which is walk in the righteousness of Christ.

But-hey, If you want to keep trying to live in a self righteous lifestyle and not learn what it looks like to walk like christ Have fun

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And woe to those who go to Christ for forgiveness without repenting of their sins but say I can't obey them all so I won't try to obey any.

This is a strawman argument dude,
God says you can not keep all of them, IHe also through paul told you the purpose and reason He gave the law. But you refuse to listen to him.

You want to push your self righteousness and try to live someting you can not live (if we say we have no sin WE DECIEVE OURSELVES and there is no truth in us) that fine. But stop lying about what others think and do. And tryign to tell yourselv and others we have no desire to walk a righteous life.

 

[Blik]

Too many think they have to earn grace with their actions thus do works thinking that will save them.

And too many think that because they have grace that is not based on works that they can live law without trying to work.

At judgment there are many who have told Jesus no, I will not work as you ask to show my love for you who will be judged by this decision they have made.

 

[Endoscopy]

And too many think that because they have grace that is not based on works that they can live law without trying to work.

At judgment there are many who have told Jesus no, I will not work as you ask to show my love for you who will be judged by this decision they have made.

Some Biblical concepts relating to faith and works.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Faith without works is dead. In other words no works no faith.
Works DOES NOT save but WITHOUT works there is NO faith.
As James put it I will show you my faith by my works.
Jesus also said you will know them by their fruits (works).

 

[Blik]

People who want freedom from law and preach it do not want God's word spoken. So they accuse people who tell about God as bragging they are sin free. That is entirely made up for there is nothing about stating that God wants us to try and stating they have achieved what everyone knows can't be achieved.

Fact is they are preaching lawlessness, and God preaches law keeping. Painting others black falsely is not going to make them white.

 

[Endoscopy]

People who want freedom from law and preach it do not want God's word spoken. So they accuse people who tell about God as bragging they are sin free. That is entirely made up for there is nothing about stating that God wants us to try and stating they have achieved what everyone knows can't be achieved.

Fact is they are preaching lawlessness, and God preaches law keeping. Painting others black falsely is not going to make them white.

Agree, here is Romans 3 NIV
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

 

[Grandpa]

Still trying to say the law will at some point goes away. The point of that scripture is when we accept God's gift of grace through faith in Jesus we are no longer condemned by the law but those who reject him will be judged by the law. A prophecy says there will be those at judgement will cry out for a mountain to fall on them rather than face the judgement of God!

I can't tell if you don't understand scripture, or if you DO understand scripture but just try to twist it to mean something else, or you THINK you understand scripture and accidently twist it.

Paul and the Lord Jesus both tell us when we come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are dead to the law.

We follow the Ministration of Righteousness and we are delivered from the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.


Does this mean the law goes away? No. It is still around waiting for those people who HAVEN'T come to Christ. It is still their schoolmaster.

Does it effectively go away for the Christian? Yes.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[Blik]

I can't tell if you don't understand scripture, or if you DO understand scripture but just try to twist it to mean something else, or you THINK you understand scripture and accidently twist it.

Paul and the Lord Jesus both tell us when we come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are dead to the law.

We follow the Ministration of Righteousness and we are delivered from the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.


Does this mean the law goes away? No. It is still around waiting for those people who HAVEN'T come to Christ. It is still their schoolmaster.

Does it effectively go away for the Christian? Yes.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

If you believe all this stuff, then you believe that God changes His mind. In one place, to your way of interpretation, God tells us to obey. Your interpretation of "not under law" now has God saying scratch that, I take all of how I tell you to live back, it is like I never spoke to you to guide you.

I think your God is one you made up in your own head.

It is no wonder our churches have lost its power to shape the world. Its members are actually taught to live willy nilly without discipline.

 

[Endoscopy]

I can't tell if you don't understand scripture, or if you DO understand scripture but just try to twist it to mean something else, or you THINK you understand scripture and accidently twist it.

Paul and the Lord Jesus both tell us when we come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are dead to the la4w.

We follow the Ministration of Righteousness and we are delivered from the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.


Does this mean the law goes away? No. It is still around waiting for those people who HAVEN'T come to Christ. It is still their schoolmaster.

Does it effectively go away for the Christian? Yes.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Here is a sequence of scripture on the law, sin and salvation from sin that condemns us to death.

Here is Jesus on the law.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments


Ephesians 2:8-9

AMPC
8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]


Breaking the law is sin.


Romans 6 NIV
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3 AMPC Amplified Classic
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

 

[Grandpa]

If you believe all this stuff, then you believe that God changes His mind. In one place, to your way of interpretation, God tells us to obey. Your interpretation of "not under law" now has God saying scratch that, I take all of how I tell you to live back, it is like I never spoke to you to guide you.

I think your God is one you made up in your own head.

It is no wonder our churches have lost its power to shape the world. Its members are actually taught to live willy nilly without discipline.

I don't think God changes His Mind.

But He changed the way we draw near to Him.

The Old Covenant was broken. God made a New Covenant. Did He change His Mind? No. He knew people would break the first covenant. He was ready to make that New Covenant after people had a chance to learn that the first way had no chance of working.

Sadly, there are still a lot of people out there trying to make the first covenant work or trying to mix the two covenants together.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Revelation 13:8-9
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

 

[Blik]

I don't think God changes His Mind.

But He changed the way we draw near to Him.

The Old Covenant was broken. God made a New Covenant. Did He change His Mind? No. He knew people would break the first covenant. He was ready to make that New Covenant after people had a chance to learn that the first way had no chance of working.

Sadly, there are still a lot of people out there trying to make the first covenant work or trying to mix the two covenants together.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Revelation 13:8-9
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

If God is true to what God tells us He is then God is eternal. That means that what He tells us in Genesis and what scripture tells us today is the same, God doesn't change anything. At that time law obedience was obedience in the spirit of God, today that is also so. It was always true man is too imperfect to be forgiven except through the grave of God. It was and is true that to have a good life here we must obey law for law points to that life.

This question boils down to this: Does grace give a license to sin. In Romans Paul tells us it does not.

 

[Lanolin]

The law is NOT set aside, and that is a fact not a belief. God is eternal and what God said at the moment of creation and what God says today are the very same, God is the I am.

When God gave the ten commandments on Mt Sinai it was the very same commandments Christ explained more fully during the sermon on the Mt., and it is the very same law that is spoken of in Hebrews when we are told that the true law is not the ridged law as stated on Mt Sinai but the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is contained within the law as stated on the stone tablets.

Also!!! The idea that God takes back promises the God makes is false. God is true and you can put your very life in his hands, God is trustworthy. When God states that He will do something the idea that anything he adds to do something more cancels anything God told us before is false. God does NOT take back any word that God gives, humans and devils do that but God does not.

Hmm what about Mount Zion though..didnt Jesus preach his sermon on the mount he didnt take everyone back to Mt sinai again. Hebrews addresses this. Read Hebrews carefully!