When did the corrupted world we live in become corrupted?

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Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#101
Dec 15, 2018
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#101
Interesting I have heard some views say well Adam ate because Eve gave him the fruit, but it could have been because he wasnt thinking, not necessarily that he'd rather die and be with Eve.
If he was really thinking of Eve he could have stopped her, but he didnt say anything. After all God didnt think it was very noble that Adam ate and then blamed Eve, and Adams excuse was not 'I ate to save Eve from dying alone'. So I dont know where people get that from?!
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#102
Dec 15, 2018
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#102
Another thought, why Eve was deceived and Adam was not.

GOd had spoken directly to Adam. genesis 2:16-17
After that He made Eve, and presumably Adam told Eve about what trees they could and could not eat. EVe did not hear the command from God, she heard it second hand from Adam.
Then the serpent questioned what Eve had heard. DId God really say...? Why did Eve doubt, well she hadnt been directly commanded like Adam had.

Note the serpent did not target Adam. He targeted Eve. Its like when the Boss tells their leader to do or not do something but then you as leader are meant to pass on this info to your workers ...your helpers. When you lead, you are responsible the buck stops with you. If someone else tells your workers something different, a lie, you are not supposed to agree with that lie or let them fall. Its like parents saying to their kids dont eat junk food and then their friends pressure them to eat junk food and the parents cave and start eating junk food too. What kind of parents are they who go against their word.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

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#103
Sep 28, 2015
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#103
reneweddaybyday said:
So when Adam and Eve ate of the tree knowledge of good and evil, that was "HIS will"?

And because God "100% drives His creation", it was God that "drove" Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

If it was God's will that Adam and Eve eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, why did God command Adam to not eat in Gen 2:16-17?

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​


God knowing Adam and Eve would eat of the tree (because He knows the end from the beginning) and God devising His plan of redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ is not the same as God's Will being done when Adam and Eve sinned.
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UHHH, hello......does God not have a plan for His creation?
You think He just threw things together and now sits back to see what happens?

God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience. Likewise, just as God appoints rulers, He also turns the head of the king wherever He will.
Adam was made that way

You are repeating yourself. We know what that means......keep repeating the same action and getting same result = insanity
The cross was predestined. Acts 2 Why would God predestine the cross if Adam's fall was not predestined?
 
G

garee

Banned
#104
Mar 28, 2016
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#104
Endoscopy said:
Why are you trying to say God created evil?
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Two kinds of evil. A evil that come from breaking the commandments and as a consequence God by lifting his hand of mercy brings an evil against them. When Israel would disobey as a evil he could bring another nation against them,. Or the evil when David number the people and thousands suffered a evil from God and perished.

The evil that caused corruption was because mankind chose to not obey God but rather the work of the spirit of error the father of lies. The same with him when pride was found in his heart he gave Satan over to do that which was evil.

God calls natural unconverted man a evil or corrupt generation, and the new blessed creation the generation of Christ

You could call evil darkness and light peace. In the new order there will be no darkness represented by no night.

Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#105
Mar 23, 2016
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#105
GraceAndTruth said:
God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience.
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In agreement with this statement.



GraceAndTruth said:
Likewise, just as God appoints rulers, He also turns the head of the king wherever He will.
Adam was made that way
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When you state that God "also turns the head of the king wherever He will" followed by "Adam was made that way", it appears to me that you are saying that Adam had no choice but to sin.

If that is what you believe, I absolutely do not agree with that.




GraceAndTruth said:
You are repeating yourself. We know what that means......keep repeating the same action and getting same result = insanity
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How many times does God repeat in His Word that He loves us? When God repeats Himself over and over and over, telling us how much He loves us, and cares for us, and wants us to turn to Him, knowing that we will turn our backs on Him over and over and over, is that insanity?




GraceAndTruth said:
Why would God predestine the cross if Adam's fall was not predestined?
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God knowing that Adam would sin is not the same as God having "predestined" Adam to sin. As you stated in Post #103, "God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience".

Foreknowledge is not the same as predestination (imo).



 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#106
Dec 15, 2018
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#106
I wouldnt say God created humans just so they could sin.
GOd created us weak so we could rely on Him. We are clay in the potters Hand to be moulded and shaped. When God created, he made things good. And he made woman 'very good'. But he did not make us perfect. Perfection cames later, and its a process. Its like when you fire a pot, and then glaze it. GLazing is the final touch when you are sealing it. So it is with us when we are sealed with the holy spirit.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#107
Sep 28, 2015
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#107
reneweddaybyday said:
In agreement with this statement.




When you state that God "also turns the head of the king wherever He will" followed by "Adam was made that way", it appears to me that you are saying that Adam had no choice but to sin.

If that is what you believe, I absolutely do not agree with that.

No choice whatsoever. Just as right now YOU have no choice but to kick against the sovereignty of God. You are made that way.
Arrogance against the attributes of God is apostasy at best, heresy at worse, but no place for one of God's kids.



How many times does God repeat in His Word that He loves us? When God repeats Himself over and over and over, telling us how much He loves us, and cares for us, and wants us to turn to Him, knowing that we will turn our backs on Him over and over and over, is that insanity?

When God's love is mentioned it is in the context of HIS PEOPLE. His people being those who are predestined to adoption as sons.


God does not love everybody. The Potter made pots for destruction.
When Gods love for His people is mentioned, it is in the context of HIS PEOPLE.
His people are those predestined for glory, His called and faithful.


God knowing that Adam would sin is not the same as God having "predestined" Adam to sin. As you stated in Post #103, "God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience".

Foreknowledge is not the same as predestination (imo).

YET THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THOSE HE FOREKNEW HE ALSO PREDESTINED Rom 8:29

God made even the wicked for the day of evil. Prov 16:4
Adam was predestined to sin because he was made that way, the first natural man to make a "free will" choice and look what it got him!! Obviously men with free will and a sovereign God cannot both exist. The natural man is prone to sin, please the flesh rather than any spiritual call to please God.

It was definitely God's plan for Adam to be first sinner.
Also God's plan to cover that sin HIMSELF, first with the blood of animals, then with HIS OWN BLOOD on the CROSS.
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There are the answers if you can handle it.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#108
Mar 23, 2016
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#108
GraceAndTruth said:
There are the answers if you can handle it.
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In Post #103 you stated "God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience."

Then in Post #107 you stated Adam had "No choice whatsoever."

What does God's Word tell us about those who make contradictory statements concerning His Word?
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#109
Sep 28, 2015
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#109
reneweddaybyday said:
In Post #103 you stated "God gave Adam a choice, knowing that Adam would choose disobedience."

Then in Post #107 you stated Adam had "No choice whatsoever."

What does God's Word tell us about those who make contradictory statements concerning His Word?
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Adam had a choice............WITHIN his state of being a natural man.
The "choices" of the natural man are limited to the desires of his flesh.
Not the "free will" choice you are so attached to.

IF YOU DON'T GET IT, YOU DON'T GET IT
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#110
Mar 23, 2016
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#110
GraceAndTruth said:
Adam had a choice............WITHIN his state of being a natural man.
The "choices" of the natural man are limited to the desires of his flesh.
Not the "free will" choice you are so attached to.
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Interestingly enough, Scripture indicates it was not Adam who was moved by "the desires of his flesh". It was Eve who saw that the tree was good ... that it was pleasant to the eyes ... a tree to be desired (Gen 3:6).

Adam ate because the woman, who he claimed in Gen 2:23 was now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh, had eaten of the tree. Adam chose to cleave unto his wife so they both were one flesh (Gen 2:24).




GraceAndTruth said:
IF YOU DON'T GET IT, YOU DON'T GET IT
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It's really interesting when you claim others "DON'T GET IT" just because you are asked to explain your completely contradictory statements.


 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#111
Sep 28, 2015
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#111
reneweddaybyday said:
Interestingly enough, Scripture indicates it was not Adam who was moved by "the desires of his flesh". It was Eve who saw that the tree was good ... that it was pleasant to the eyes ... a tree to be desired (Gen 3:6).

Adam ate because the woman, who he claimed in Gen 2:23 was now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh, had eaten of the tree. Adam chose to cleave unto his wife so they both were one flesh (Gen 2:24).


You see it your way, I'll see it my way. '
I'm not under obligation to agree with you




It's really interesting when you claim others "DON'T GET IT" just because you are asked to explain your completely contradictory statements.
Obviously you do not want explanations, you want to argue over opinions.
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Since it's not a salvation issue, your or my opinon are moot.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#112
Mar 23, 2016
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#112
GraceAndTruth said:
You see it your way, I'll see it my way. '
I'm not under obligation to agree with you
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Correct. We are both "under obligation" to believe God through faith.




GraceAndTruth said:
Obviously you do not want explanations, you want to argue over opinions
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So when someone asks you to explain a statement made by you which completely contradicts a statement you made previously, he or she only wants to "argue over opinions"? I'm actually trying to comprehend what you believe. That is all. Any other thoughts you have concerning my intent are false.




GraceAndTruth said:
Since it's not a salvation issue, your or my opinon are moot.
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Correct. Good day to you and hope/pray you have a very blessed 2019.



 
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