Daniel 9:25 & 26

[Locutus]

Doesn't matter how you understand it - what is important is that the 70 weeks ended with the destruction of "thy holy city" in the 1st century AD - there is no gap in the weeks, Daniel does not give any indication of a gap.

(Dan 9:24 KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[KJV1611]

Doesn't matter how you understand it - what is important is that the 70 weeks ended with the destruction of "thy holy city" in the 1st century AD - there is no gap in the weeks, Daniel does not give any indication of a gap.

(Dan 9:24 KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I agree that there's no way to push it past 70 AD but I think the holy city was done with when the cloven tongues began to speak. Beside that, Jerusalem never was completely destroy and continued to exist well after 70 AD didn't it?

Excerpts taken from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jerusalem

The siege of Jerusalem, 70AD (David Roberts, 1850)

• 66–73 CE: First Jewish-Roman War, with the Judean rebellion led by Simon Bar Giora
• 70 CE: Siege of Jerusalem (70) Titus, eldest son of Emperor Vespasian, ends the major portion of Great Jewish Revolt and destroys Herod's Temple on Tisha B'Av. The Roman legion Legio X Fretensis is garrisoned in the city.
• The Sanhedrin is relocated to Yavne. Pharisees become dominant, and their form of Judaism evolves into modern day Rabbinic Judaism (whereas Sadducees and Essenes are no longer recorded as groups in history—see Origins of Rabbinic Judaism).
• The city's leading Christians relocate to Pella.
• c. 90–96 CE: Jews and Christians heavily persecuted throughout the Roman Empire towards the end of the reign of Domitian.
• 115–17 CE: Jews revolt against the Romans throughout the empire, including Jerusalem, in the Kitos War.
• 117 CE: Saint Simeon of Jerusalem, second Bishop of Jerusalem, was crucified under Trajan by the proconsul Atticus in Jerusalem or the vicinity.[34]

Late Roman period (Aelia Capitolina)
The Roman empire at its peak under Hadrian showing the location of the Roman legions deployed in 125 CE.

• 130: Emperor Hadrian visits the ruins of Jerusalem and decides to rebuild it as a city dedicated to Jupiter called Aelia Capitolina
• 131: An additional legion, Legio VI Ferrata, was stationed in the city to maintain order, as the Roman governor performed the foundation ceremony of Aelia Capitolina. Hadrian abolished circumcision (brit milah), which he viewed as mutilation.[35]
• 132–135: Bar Kokhba's revolt – Simon Bar Kokhba leads a revolt against the Roman Empire, controlling the city for three years. He is proclaimed as the Messiah by Rabbi Akiva. Hadrian sends Sextus Julius Severus to the region, who brutally crushes the revolt and retakes the city.
• 136: Hadrian formally reestablishes the city as Aelia Capitolina, and forbids Jewish and Christian presence in the city.
• c. 136–140: A Temple to Jupiter is built on the Temple Mount and a temple to Venus is built on Calvary.
• 138: Restrictions over Christian presence in the city are relaxed after Hadrian dies and Antoninus Pius becomes emperor.
• 195: Saint Narcissus of Jerusalem presides over a council held by the bishops of Palestine in Caesarea, and decrees that Easter is to be always kept on a Sunday, and not with the Jewish Passover.
• 251: Bishop Alexander of Jerusalem is killed during Roman Emperor Decius' persecution of Christians.
• 259: Jerusalem falls under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire after the capture of Emperor Valerian by Shapur I at the Battle of Edessa causes the Roman Empire to splinter.
• 272: Jerusalem becomes part of the Roman Empire again after Aurelian defeats the Palmyrene Empire at the Battle of Emesa (Homs).
• 303: Saint Procopius of Scythopolis is born in Jerusalem.
• 312: Macarius becomes the last Bishop of Aelia Capitolina.
• 313: Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre founded in Jerusalem after Constantine I issued the Edict of Milan, legalizing Christianity throughout the Roman Empire following his own conversion the previous year.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Daniel is told that 70 weeks (490 years) is determined to finish the transgression.
After 69 weeks (483 years) the Messiah will come.
After 62 weeks (434 years) Messiah will be cut off.

How do you explain this.

3 1/2 year from the cross to the siege of Jerusalem
3 1/2 years of Jersalem siege
totAL 1290 days = years

45 DAYS LATER.......the army (desolation of abomination) retreats back to Rome
BLESSED is he who attains to the 1335 day

1290 + 45 = 1335

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Now some of you folks can say for certain that Daniel 9:27 is proof that the anti-Christ will sign a seven year peace treaty with Israel and will break it after 3 1/2 years, so why can you not answer this question?

no peace treaty
It is Messiah who made the covenant and put a stop to sacrifice on the CROSS

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Daniel and Revelation are HISTORIC events.

 

[Nehemiah6]

After 69 weeks the Messiah will come. What event was this?

The verse does not say "will come". It simply says "unto (until) Messiah the Prince" (that is the literal rendering)

וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצֹ֖וק הָעִתִּֽים

After 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off. What event was this?

We need to quote the entire two verses from the KJV to see what event is connected.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So the total period of 69 weeks (from the commandment of Cyrus until the crucifixion) is given in verse 26, and the period after the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple to the crucifixion is given in verse 27. The difference is 49 years.

seven weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years
three score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 = 420 years
two weeks = 2 x 7 = 14 years
TOTAL = 483 YEARS

As long as we are aware that much of the dating according to Ptolemy's chronology is inaccurate, we will not rely on published dated as given in many commentaries.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Thank you for the apology. This is one of my favorite subjects, and it is sad that I can not participate because we have so many “Know it alls” who do nothing but insult their opponent, and make it so you have to leave because you can not deal with it. If we disagree we disagree. But it is nice to talk to others. You may learn something you did not hear before, which makes you think. Alot I have learned over the years came from people forcing me to think and study.

There are many dates in which people like to use as the starting point. But we must make sure to make sure we have the correct date. You mentioned 53 years and added those to the origional 62 weeks. Do yu mind showing me where you get 53 years, I see 53 days (yom) not 53 years (Yamim) used in Nehemiah chapter 6 (I had to look it up to test this, I used my resources to look up the exact hebrew word used, and then looked up the meanings in multiple hebrew dictionaries/lexicons.

Any way the decree was given in Nehimiah 2. We know this date if we add 7 plus 62 weeks (69 weeks) we come to the exact date Jesus entered jerusalem just as the prophet said he wuld be introduced.

Jesus even mentioned that if they knew what day this was. The time of his coming, Which they coud know by these specific prophecies. But as he said, now it will be hidden.

Again, less then 7 literal days later he was “cut off” again, as prophesied.

As far as the 3.5 year ministry and groundwork for the church in th efinal half of the 70th week. First your 3.5 years off. Second, Messiah was cut off AFTER the 69th week, not th emiddle of the 70th, and third/ The 70 weeks had nothing to do with the church. It had everything to do with israel. And the city of jerusalem. So I personaly believe we should leave context where it is, and not try to add to it, or change it.

As I said, this is my favorite subject. I have spent many years on this I am still learning, and will never think I know it all.. as non of us should One thing I have learned is you can rule out some things as they do not fit. Or one would have to interpret a prophesy allegorically to make that interpretation come true (anything other than literal interpretation to me destroys the purpose of prophesy and makes it possible for any interpretation to be used)

An example would be those who claim Satan was bound and has been bound since the cross. However. If we read. Satan will be bound so he is not able to deciee the nations.. All one has to do is look at the nations the last 2000 years to now satan has massive influence over the nations, thus he could not possibly be bound (he has always been limited in what he can do, and today is no different. The restrainor is still restraining as he always has, But he is not bound.

I am not sure about your last statement, You said the man of sin will be identified first (I agree) with jesus being the first half.

1. What is the event which reveals the man of sin
2. if it happened after jesus died. Why has jesus not yet returned to destroy the final gentile beast (which is who this man is)
3. What about the 7 year covenant which the futur eprince confirms with many? Where does this come into account?

Again, Thank you for a peacefull discussion

Please excuse my being brief. I have some medical issues that have appeared again.
I will try to answer your last three questions.

1. Rev. 13:3---At this event, I believe we will know for sure.
2. Jesus second coming will mean he end of the beast and the man of sin. Only Jesus will have the power to end his reign because he is powered by Satan.
3. Daniel 9:26-- the prince is the roman emperor Vespasian. The people are his army. He lead his army to put down a Jewish uprising. He had to leave to return to Rome to assume the role of emperor. He left his son Titus to command his army and complete the task of putting down the uprising. In 70 AD the army destroyed Jerusalem, the temple, killed a great number and scattered the Jews putting an end to Israel for 1900 years.

The pronoun HE, mentioned 3 times in verse 27, is speaking of the Prince, the Messiah, not the man of sin.
The validity of the temple offerings was made void at the crucifixion of Jesus.
Jesus did confirm THE promised covenant with many during His ministry. Most rejected Him as the Messiah, but many believed.
Vespasian was not the anti-Christ nor a picture of the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in Daniel 9, so to say the three HE's in verse 27 is the anti-Christ is wrong.

Again, I believe the ministry of Jesus, His presenting Himself to Israel as the promised Messiah consumes the first half of the 70th week. At His crucifixion, time was suspended and will resume, the last 1290 days, when Rev. 13:3 happens. As the man of sin stand up, alive again, and demands to be worshipped.

Many are looking for the imminent rapture of the church.
Many are looking for some charismatic European to sign a seven peace treaty with Israel.
I am looking for an Islamic leader to subdue 3 Islamic nations, call for all factions of Islam to unite to destroy Israel, take a deadly head wound, and stand up again.
But sadly, most are just ignoring the signs that the end is near.

That is what I believe.

 

[tanakh]

To start with the whole prophecy is about Israel and the Messiah.

There are 69 weeks of years or actually 69 sevens as the original scripture states. AFTER the 69th the Messiah is cut off or killed
this happens half way through the 70th week which follows the 69th. The remaining half of the 70th week is the time that the
Apostles reach out to the Jews with the message of salvation. Jesus told them to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and that is what they did. The first believers in Jesus were almost all Jewish.

The idea of a gap of 2000 years is not found anywhere in scripture especially Daniel. Every length of time mentioned in the Bible
is continuous. The false idea that the Church was some kind of plan B because the Jews rejected Jesus is false because the early
Church mainly consisted of Jews. At Pentecost all those who heard and believed Peter were Jews. James addressed his epistle to the 12 tribes. The book of Hebrews has a title that speaks for itself. The term Antichrist is not found in Daniel or Revelation. In Daniel the
nearest thing is Antiochus Epiphanes who desecrated the Temple and persecuted the Jews. This happened hundreds of years in Daniels future and the temples rededication is still commemorated by Jews on Hanukkah

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please excuse my being brief. I have some medical issues that have appeared again.
I will try to answer your last three questions.

1. Rev. 13:3---At this event, I believe we will know for sure.

How will we see this? And what about the sign of the abomination of desolation. Whould this not be better proof?

2. Jesus second coming will mean he end of the beast and the man of sin. Only Jesus will have the power to end his reign because he is powered by Satan.

Agree, but you said jesus time and the beasts time equals 7 years..

3. Daniel 9:26-- the prince is the roman emperor Vespasian. The people are his army. He lead his army to put down a Jewish uprising. He had to leave to return to Rome to assume the role of emperor. He left his son Titus to command his army and complete the task of putting down the uprising. In 70 AD the army destroyed Jerusalem, the temple, killed a great number and scattered the Jews putting an end to Israel for 1900 years.

The pronoun HE, mentioned 3 times in verse 27, is speaking of the Prince, the Messiah, not the man of sin.
The validity of the temple offerings was made void at the crucifixion of Jesus.
Jesus did confirm THE promised covenant with many during His ministry. Most rejected Him as the Messiah, but many believed.
Vespasian was not the anti-Christ nor a picture of the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in Daniel 9, so to say the three HE's in verse 27 is the anti-Christ is wrong.

Again, I believe the ministry of Jesus, His presenting Himself to Israel as the promised Messiah consumes the first half of the 70th week. At His crucifixion, time was suspended and will resume, the last 1290 days, when Rev. 13:3 happens. As the man of sin stand up, alive again, and demands to be worshipped.

Many are looking for the imminent rapture of the church.
Many are looking for some charismatic European to sign a seven peace treaty with Israel.
I am looking for an Islamic leader to subdue 3 Islamic nations, call for all factions of Islam to unite to destroy Israel, take a deadly head wound, and stand up again.
But sadly, most are just ignoring the signs that the end is near.

That is what I believe.

So jesus commits the abomination which causes desolation. And he confirms a covenant with many for one week then breakts it?

 

[SpoonJuly]

How will we see this? And what about the sign of the abomination of desolation. Whould this not be better proof?

Agree, but you said jesus time and the beasts time equals 7 years..

So jesus commits the abomination which causes desolation. And he confirms a covenant with many for one week then breakts it?

When the man of sin take a head shots and stands up again it will be all over the internet and tv.
Jesus time is the first half of the 70th week, His ministry to Israel. The man of sin will consume the last 1290 days of the 70th week.
Jesus did not break the covenant. Verse 27 does not say anything about BREAKING a covenant. The Jews murdered Him. His death makes the offering of sacrifices to cease because the sacrifices are no longer needed or acceptable.
Jesus does not commit the abomination which causes destruction and verse 27 does not say that.
He did make Israel desolate by the hand of Titus because of their abdominal action of rejection the Messiah God sent and then unlawfully murdered Him. It will continue to be poured on them until Jesus returns.

 

[Noose]

I agree that there's no way to push it past 70 AD but I think the holy city was done with when the cloven tongues began to speak. Beside that, Jerusalem never was completely destroy and continued to exist well after 70 AD didn't it?

Excerpts taken from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jerusalem

The siege of Jerusalem, 70AD (David Roberts, 1850)

• 66–73 CE: First Jewish-Roman War, with the Judean rebellion led by Simon Bar Giora
• 70 CE: Siege of Jerusalem (70) Titus, eldest son of Emperor Vespasian, ends the major portion of Great Jewish Revolt and destroys Herod's Temple on Tisha B'Av. The Roman legion Legio X Fretensis is garrisoned in the city.
• The Sanhedrin is relocated to Yavne. Pharisees become dominant, and their form of Judaism evolves into modern day Rabbinic Judaism (whereas Sadducees and Essenes are no longer recorded as groups in history—see Origins of Rabbinic Judaism).
• The city's leading Christians relocate to Pella.
• c. 90–96 CE: Jews and Christians heavily persecuted throughout the Roman Empire towards the end of the reign of Domitian.
• 115–17 CE: Jews revolt against the Romans throughout the empire, including Jerusalem, in the Kitos War.
• 117 CE: Saint Simeon of Jerusalem, second Bishop of Jerusalem, was crucified under Trajan by the proconsul Atticus in Jerusalem or the vicinity.[34]

Late Roman period (Aelia Capitolina)
The Roman empire at its peak under Hadrian showing the location of the Roman legions deployed in 125 CE.

• 130: Emperor Hadrian visits the ruins of Jerusalem and decides to rebuild it as a city dedicated to Jupiter called Aelia Capitolina
• 131: An additional legion, Legio VI Ferrata, was stationed in the city to maintain order, as the Roman governor performed the foundation ceremony of Aelia Capitolina. Hadrian abolished circumcision (brit milah), which he viewed as mutilation.[35]
• 132–135: Bar Kokhba's revolt – Simon Bar Kokhba leads a revolt against the Roman Empire, controlling the city for three years. He is proclaimed as the Messiah by Rabbi Akiva. Hadrian sends Sextus Julius Severus to the region, who brutally crushes the revolt and retakes the city.
• 136: Hadrian formally reestablishes the city as Aelia Capitolina, and forbids Jewish and Christian presence in the city.
• c. 136–140: A Temple to Jupiter is built on the Temple Mount and a temple to Venus is built on Calvary.
• 138: Restrictions over Christian presence in the city are relaxed after Hadrian dies and Antoninus Pius becomes emperor.
• 195: Saint Narcissus of Jerusalem presides over a council held by the bishops of Palestine in Caesarea, and decrees that Easter is to be always kept on a Sunday, and not with the Jewish Passover.
• 251: Bishop Alexander of Jerusalem is killed during Roman Emperor Decius' persecution of Christians.
• 259: Jerusalem falls under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire after the capture of Emperor Valerian by Shapur I at the Battle of Edessa causes the Roman Empire to splinter.
• 272: Jerusalem becomes part of the Roman Empire again after Aurelian defeats the Palmyrene Empire at the Battle of Emesa (Homs).
• 303: Saint Procopius of Scythopolis is born in Jerusalem.
• 312: Macarius becomes the last Bishop of Aelia Capitolina.
• 313: Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre founded in Jerusalem after Constantine I issued the Edict of Milan, legalizing Christianity throughout the Roman Empire following his own conversion the previous year.

There's no way the 70 week prophesy would come up to 70AD, not unless the angel did not know what he was talking about.
If Jesus comes triumphantly in 33AD (69th week), the furthest the prophesy could go is 40AD (70th week).

Cna you show us how you get 70AD from 70 week prophesy?

 

[Noose]

The verse does not say "will come". It simply says "unto (until) Messiah the Prince" (that is the literal rendering)

וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצֹ֖וק הָעִתִּֽים


We need to quote the entire two verses from the KJV to see what event is connected.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So the total period of 69 weeks (from the commandment of Cyrus until the crucifixion) is given in verse 26, and the period after the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple to the crucifixion is given in verse 27. The difference is 49 years.

seven weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years
three score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 = 420 years
two weeks = 2 x 7 = 14 years
TOTAL = 483 YEARS

As long as we are aware that much of the dating according to Ptolemy's chronology is inaccurate, we will not rely on published dated as given in many commentaries.

This prophesy was made centuries before Jesus so when the angel says 'unto Messiah', he actually means until Messiah comes or is born; not when He comes to Jerusalem triumphantly or when He is crucified.

 

[KJV1611]

There's no way the 70 week prophesy would come up to 70AD, not unless the angel did not know what he was talking about.
If Jesus comes triumphantly in 33AD (69th week), the furthest the prophesy could go is 40AD (70th week).

Cna you show us how you get 70AD from 70 week prophesy?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, I don't believe the 70 weeks lasted until 70 AD. Locutus was saying that it ended in AD 70 and my response was that I believe it ended at Pentecost but there is no way anyone could push it past 70 AD.... meaning the futurist view is impossible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When the man of sin take a head shots and stands up again it will be all over the internet and tv.
Jesus time is the first half of the 70th week, His ministry to Israel. The man of sin will consume the last 1290 days of the 70th week.
Jesus did not break the covenant. Verse 27 does not say anything about BREAKING a covenant. The Jews murdered Him. His death makes the offering of sacrifices to cease because the sacrifices are no longer needed or acceptable.
Jesus does not commit the abomination which causes destruction and verse 27 does not say that.
He did make Israel desolate by the hand of Titus because of their abdominal action of rejection the Messiah God sent and then unlawfully murdered Him. It will continue to be poured on them until Jesus returns.

Ok so what your saying is, that there is a huge gap between the end of the first 3.5 years and the next 3.5 years?

It says in the middle of the week he will commit the abomination of desolation. Putting an end to sacrifice (you can not offer sacrifice in a holy place which is unclean) Is jesus the one who did this? Since the “prince” is the main character throughout the 7 years (he confirms a covenant, then in the middle of the week. Puts an end of sacrifice and offering commiting the abomination(

The prophesy tells us what event put an end to sacrifice and offering. The abomination of desolation. Not jesus death. Jesus death already occured long before this happened in the passage (at the end of the 69th week) and remember No sacrifce ever took away sin (hebrews)

Also of most importance. We have to read this as a jew in Daniels time would have read it.. It was given to him. And them..

The one who makes the covenant is the one who commits the abomination of desolation. Titus did nto do this, He destroyed the city and sanctuary.. An abomination is something which makes unclean.. Not total destruction.

I hope your medical issues are better!!!

 

[KJV1611]

The verse does not say "will come". It simply says "unto (until) Messiah the Prince" (that is the literal rendering)

וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצֹ֖וק הָעִתִּֽים


We need to quote the entire two verses from the KJV to see what event is connected.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So the total period of 69 weeks (from the commandment of Cyrus until the crucifixion) is given in verse 26, and the period after the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple to the crucifixion is given in verse 27. The difference is 49 years.

seven weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years
three score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 = 420 years
two weeks = 2 x 7 = 14 years
TOTAL = 483 YEARS

As long as we are aware that much of the dating according to Ptolemy's chronology is inaccurate, we will not rely on published dated as given in many commentaries.

I see what you're talking about now. You are saying that both verses are talking about the crucifixion. That's not possible because Daniel 9:25 says that "unto the Messiah the Prince" shall be AFTER seven weeks AND 62 weeks. Messiah the Prince happens in the 70th week.

 

[Lanolin]

I have heard some people believe about a gap but that makes no sense. Why would God suspend time.
With the antichrist its whoever opposes Jesus not just one man but Satan and whoever is influenced by him. To me the person who fits the bill was Judas, the son of perdition. But others could have been antichrist i.e King Herod, etc.

The house of Israel and the house of Judah were split and somehow that remains to this day for those who stubbornly refuse to believe. This is why the Lion of Judah is the one that kills the lamb, but as the lamb rises from the dead and is the only one worthy to be on the throne, we can see that lion of Judah hasnt got any claim. The lion must lie down with the lamb. The lion does not take the throne and wont ever. Some people believe the lion of Judah to be Jesus, that he will return again as a lion, but they are mistaken!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Here's a push past 70AD.......survive to the 1335th day. DAn 12:12

1290 days + 45 days
It was 45 days after the destruction of the temple that the Roman army retreated back to Rome.

And the temple was reduced to rubble. A Jewish friend who visited the spot said there was NOTHING left of the temple.
We know that the "wailing wall" was part of Ft Antonia, never was connected to the temple.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Ok so what your saying is, that there is a huge gap between the end of the first 3.5 years and the next 3.5 years?

It says in the middle of the week he will commit the abomination of desolation. Putting an end to sacrifice (you can not offer sacrifice in a holy place which is unclean) Is jesus the one who did this? Since the “prince” is the main character throughout the 7 years (he confirms a covenant, then in the middle of the week. Puts an end of sacrifice and offering commiting the abomination(

The prophesy tells us what event put an end to sacrifice and offering. The abomination of desolation. Not jesus death. Jesus death already occured long before this happened in the passage (at the end of the 69th week) and remember No sacrifce ever took away sin (hebrews)

Also of most importance. We have to read this as a jew in Daniels time would have read it.. It was given to him. And them..

The one who makes the covenant is the one who commits the abomination of desolation. Titus did nto do this, He destroyed the city and sanctuary.. An abomination is something which makes unclean.. Not total destruction.

I hope your medical issues are better!!!

Yes there is a huge gap between the first half and the second half of the 70th week.
The first half was the ministry of Christ, from His baptism till His death.
The second half will begin when the man of sin arrives. That is still in the future.

You keep referring to "the abomination of desolation" but that term is not used in verse 27.
Notice what Daniel said
"He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abomination He shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate".

Now just what happened when Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
Unlike all the previous times God brought judgment upon Israel for their sin, where they remained a nation (except for the 70 years that many were exiled in Babylon) even though they were under the authority of Gentile nations, this time they were totally destroyed, scattered, and ceased to be a nation. This remained true until 1948.
During this 1900 years, the Jews remained scattered and were at the mercy of all who would destroy them. From time to time, God did intervene to save a remnant. But what was determined was poured out on them.
God used Titus to bring judgment upon His nation because they committed the unpardonable sin.
They not only reject His Son, they also blasphemed His name, and murdered Him.
Even today, even though they are a nation, the reality is that at still at the mercy of Gentile nations. They would have fallen many times during the last 70 years if not for the military and economic power of the US.

Go to Matthew 24 and notice what Jesus said to those leaders of the people.
As He left them, He basically He told them that they had crossed the line. He was through with them. They would now pay the price for their abominations.

The prince referred to in verse is Vespasian, not the man of sin.
The Man of sin is not mentioned in Daniel 9.
Jesus cause the sacrifices to cease (they were no longer necessary nor acceptable) when He went to the cross.

It is good to talk with you, but I will probably not be able to continue for a time.
May God bless.

 

[tanakh]

There's no way the 70 week prophesy would come up to 70AD, not unless the angel did not know what he was talking about.
If Jesus comes triumphantly in 33AD (69th week), the furthest the prophesy could go is 40AD (70th week).

Cna you show us how you get 70AD from 70 week prophesy?

The 70 weeks cover the period up to and including Christs death and resurrection and the forming of the Church.
Nowhere does scripture say that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple are part of the 70 weeks. Jesus
predicted that the generation that were alive during his ministry would not pass away before the events of 70AD
happened. A generation in biblical terms is about forty years based on Israels period in the wilderness and some
other references.. Its no suprise therefore that the period between Christs first coming and the events of AD70
amount to about 40 years.

What would be a suprise is that God sent an Angel to tell Daniel that there would be 70 weeks of years when all the time
he intended to stick 2000 plus years in between the 69th and 70th week without telling him. It makes God to look a little
sneaky. I believe God says what he means in scripture and means what he says.

 

[FlyingDove]

Daniel is told that 70 weeks (490 years) is determined to finish the transgression.
After 69 weeks (483 years) the Messiah will come.
After 62 weeks (434 years) Messiah will be cut off.

How do you explain this.

Daniel 9: Messiah Predicted, Messiah Rejected

Dan 9:22-25. Daniel's 70 weeks 483 yrs ended during Nisan on Palm Sunday (explained below). One week of 7 years to go.

Dan 9:
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
(NOTE: Daniel is given skilled understanding)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(NOTE: After 70 weeks = 490 years the end of sins, reconciliation for iniquity & to bring in everlasting righteousness,)

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(NOTE: After the commandment is given 7 weeks of years = 49 years plus 62 weeks of years = 434 years = Total 483 years. Messiah the Prince will arrive)

69 of Daniel's 70 weeks (of years) 69 x 7= 483 yrs ended on Palm Sunday (Nisan 10). Read Neh 2:1 below to see the starting point.

Find the last week (7 yrs), sealed up, still to come. This is the tribulation period found in Revelation.

The starting point is the decree from Artaxerxes given in 444 b.c. & recorded in Nehemiah 2:1-8.

Importance of the Decree

Nehemiah 2:1 And it came to pass """in the month Nissan""", in the """twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king""",
NOTE: The decree was issued in the month of Nisan in the 20th year of the King Artaxerxes to Nehemiah, which was (google it) in 444 B.C. It authorized Nehemiah to rebuild the city and walls of Jerusalem. Here Israel was re-established as a nation with Jerusalem the political capital. This marked the beginning of the seventy weeks found in Daniel 9:24-25).

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly & """riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass""" (FULFILLED Matt 27:7)

Matthew 26:30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out. At the last passover meal Jesus & his disiples sang hymms (Hallel Psalms) meaning "Praise" psalms, and consisted of Psalms 113-118.

Psalm 128:
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

25 """Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD""", I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
(NOTE: The people laying down palm branches were singing Hosana = ""save"" ""we pray"" Many of these people had recently witnessed Jesus raise Lazuras from the grave. After hehad been dead & buried four 4 days. These people knew Jesus was the promised Messiah. They were ready to receive thier promised King. Jesus was ready to bring salvation & restoration.)

26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Luke 19:38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
(NOTE: The people were sinding blessings to thier King.)

Luke 19:
41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
(NOTE: Jesus knew the jewish leadership was going to reject Him, He wept over the city.)

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
(NOTE: Messiah was ready to bring salvation & restoration)

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
(NOTE The fall of Jerusalem foretold)

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation
(NOTE: Because they knew not the time of and ""REJECTED"" Messiah's arrival. The Temple & city would fall.)

69 of Daniel's 70 weeks (of years) 69 x 7= 483 yrs ended on Palm Sunday (Nisan 10).
Find the last week (7 yrs), sealed up, still to come. This is the tribulation period found in Revelation.

(Additional unrelated NOTE: There is a long parenthetical period between Christ's death, resurrection & his still soon return. All the apostle's to include Paul thought Messiah's return was just a blink away "in God's eyes it is, just a blink".

2ndly, There is a long parenthetical period between Daniels 69th & 70th week

Finally, A parenthetical period between the Rapture & the begining of Daniels 70th week isn't a long shot of thinking. Peace out, FD